[SPOILERS] Thrall licking Tyrande's boots

[Minikin]

Eh.. Turalyon has already been slapped down by just Illidan.. we need a full blown uber evil Alliance character

they nearly had one but kinda shoved it under the rug.

Benedictus in cataclysm. He was the head of the cathedral of light and in cata was found out to be a sleeper agent sided with Deathwing. They dealt with him in the quest event, not even a dungeon so even if timewalking happens you dont see him. This could have been big and used to break a part of alliance as conforming to void and destruction much like cult of the damned. They could have used it as a thread that while humans are quick to judge the forsaken and the orcs for old wounds they keep turning a blind eye to how quickly they fall to death cults and world ending cults to cause problems.

But nope.

world police pony brigade, here we go.

[Vaedan]

The Horde already had presence in Dustwallow prior to the bombing of Theramore. With Theramore being turned into a crater that kinda left them the only faction with any real presence there. Especially since logically the Alliance forces manning their few remaining towers would have retreated to Theramore while the Horde advanced, which would then make them part of the "I'm not a crater" crowd.

You mean those 5 ogres who survived attack of black dragons? Yes, Horde managed to get rid of the Alliance in the region for good, but that's it. They did not take advantage of it in any way, they did not expanded their position here, well, nothing. They kept the same position they had before bombing of Theramore, so I would not really call it teritorial gain.

So was the Horde presence. They had only one outpost of note. Outside of it they had a troll living in a tent and that was pretty much it.

Still they had their presence here in way greater numbers then the Alliance and they used the region as one of major sources of wyvern, which are crucial for the Horde.

Contested territory is a game mechanic that simply means PvP in that zone is free for all, as opposed to leveling areas where players of the relevant faction are protected. Hillsbrad has no Alliance content since Cataclysm. Together with multiple other areas in Lordaeron continent. Those were all Horde gains in-lore.

Well, yea, it's gameplay thing, but I already had to explain to other horde fan on these forums that, since he was claiming Hillsbrad are labeled as "contested" and thus Frostwolves are fighting dwarves here to this day. Well, I'm glad we both agree on this and Hillsbrad was Horde dominated region by the end of cata questline.

I don't agree with multiple areas of Lordaeron. The only thing Horde really got here was Andorhal. The rest WPL is controlled by Argent Crusade, as well as WPL. Quel'thalas was already Horde territory, and the rest is pretty much contested. Arathi had not it's Alliance presence removed entirely and Hinterlands ended up contested as well, so besides Hillsbrad/Alterac, no major gains here.

I already addressed the remaining Alliance presence in advance. Refuge Pointe is the least defensible outpost of any faction in any zone. The Alliance there are just sitting ducks. And while Galen betrayed the Forsaken (though from what I recall he only did so around the time of Legion), that still left the Horde with Hammerfall and Galen's Fall.

It may not be the best strategic point, but it made its stance all the way to BfA, which pretty much means Horde did not destroyed it and did not killed people who lived here. Horde may had upper hand in the region as of cata timeline, but as I said, in the long run, they lost their grip over that region. As you can see, I innitialy said that Horde managed to have some territorial gains, but did not manage to hold them for long. That was my reacton to the post claiming that Horde goes stronger from all wars.

It also proves what's been said here, that even if you get many territories, it means nothing if you are not able to hold them.

Why wouldn't it mean a strong position for them? It meant a strong position for the Night Elves prior to Tyrande sending their army to Silithus. And the forces from Darkshore had to retreat somewhere. Ashenvale is kinda the only zone connected to it.

Besides from Teldrassil and Darnassus, night elven outposts are usually described as small and build specificaly to needs of night elves. Night elves are actually constantly patrolling the forest, moving from one place to another and they are infamous for ambushing their targets from trees, bushes only to fall back and ambush again. They does not need any huge fortified settlements. Small outpost means it's not of much use for your big army who can't really fight well in the forest and won only thanks to vastly outnumbering its enemy during uprovoked surprise attack.

[Nuggsy]

Or Sylvanas in Legion. She did some private secret stuff but her main role was defense of Azeroth.

Uhhh... WRONG? Where the hell were you during the part where she genocided a race in order to fuel her own personal power and the power of the Jailer? She only cares/cared for herself and her own power everything else was a veil for the fools that believed her.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

PERIOD. Legitimately what annoys me with the story of WoW. War Crime> we so sorry > genocide > oops > genocide. And alliance just every time its ok guys dw just dont do it again.

Anduin should have made good on Varian's promise and ended this cycle once and for all.

[Lord Pebbleton]

As a member of the Horde, we are also sick of Blizzards lazy fucking writing. Tell you what, for the interest of fairness, next xpac Anduin can go full blown Hitler and we can raid SW

That's fine by me. On the alliance side, bad writing often equals being extremely passive towards anything and I cannot bring myself to care anymore, since my leaders are just cool with everything however terrible.

[matrix123mko]

Uhhh... WRONG? Where the hell were you during the part where she genocided a race in order to fuel her own personal power and the power of the Jailer? She only cares/cared for herself and her own power everything else was a veil for the fools that believed her.

Sylvanas is the last person that would like Legion to win. Legion wants to steal her souls.

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Anduin should have made good on Varian's promise and ended this cycle once and for all.

So could the Horde, if not for Saurfang.

[BrintoSFJ]

Both of which ironically ended up breaking the Horde and leaving it in a far worse state than when they first took power.

That is because "fake horde" betrayed their warchief! Otherwise "True horde" could have culled the weak and become the overlords of the world! That is the point of view of these guys who want to "Make the horde great again".

[Varodoc]

That is because "fake horde" betrayed their warchief! Otherwise "True horde" could have culled the weak and become the overlords of the world! That is the point of view of these guys who want to "Make the horde great again".

A point of view which is clearly not endorsed by Blizzard. Both Garrosh and Sylvanas are present as terrible warchiefs who ended up being failures to the Horde.

[Hellspawn]

Well, there you go. At the end of Shadowlands, the modern world should be phased to level cap where the Horde have pulled all of their army from out of all of the Night Elf ancestral lands.

A commitment to that would be an apology that would stick.

Sure, leave it in tact as is for leveling purposes... but wouldn't be too much resources to modify the few Night Elf areas that Garrosh ruined.

That was already the deal back then after SOO

[Every Pwny]

Horde apologies mean literally zero, the point of that scene was she wanted to see actions because words from the horde have proven to be entirely worthless.

[Kithelle]

It goes more like this, Tyrande told him that should bring what was owed when he wanted to visit Nordrassil
He thought it was a apology what she wanted.
When he apologies she did not give a sh** about it.
Tyrande and Maiev did not accept thats its all just Sylvanas.
Tyrande then continues to say that sooner or later the surviving night elfs will sooner come for him and the horde and no armistice would stop them next time.
Thrall then realizes that she wants something else, Sylvanas head and he then vowed to to bring it to her.


Thats the short version of it.

It's amazing how different things sound when you don't remove context with a great bias, isn't it?

[Arakakao]

Seems like the right thing to do after all what happened. No "boot-licking" here.

[Accendor]

Eh... lets not pretend the Alliance were poor innocents being taken advantage of. Executing captured Zandalari trolls, WQ that have you use the dark iron ball to kill goblin civilians by the hundreds

They were not goblin civilians ;-)
And even if so, it makes no difference. As I said, after Teldrassil and Brennendam (and Theramore) everything was fair game and the alliance went way, way, way too soft here. But thats not the point, the point is that no matter the alliance might do in the future, after all the events of the past it will be justified.

[Beet]

Ah yes, because war war war is the way things must be, right?

In world of Warcraft yes rofl

[StationaryHawk]

I don't see the problem. Thrall wants peace, Tyrande wants revenge, none of this is new.

[Wylyth1992]

*Promises to bring the head of a mutual enemy*

That's not bootlicking.

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In world of Warcraft yes rofl

Honestly, shut up with that crap. Warcraft can still have wars, we are just tired of the constant war between the Alliance and the Horde.

[Skytotem]

*Promises to bring the head of a mutual enemy*

That's not bootlicking.

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Honestly, shut up with that crap. Warcraft can still have wars, we are just tired of the constant war between the Alliance and the Horde.

Also, we can have war between Alliance and Horde just... not one that's so stupidly Black/White

And not a 'total' war.

[kasuke06]

"Oh I'm sorry"

"Eat a dick. The last 19 times you apologized I got backstabbed immediately after and then another apology."

"Well, shit. Maybe I could do something to show we're interested in doing the right thing for... until I get bored and wander off while leaving someone who couldn't be trusted to lead a horse to water while knee deep in it in charge of the horde and they commit another genocide and add another few hundred notches to the war crime tally posts we keep. the posts used to just be a single stick."

[Hyral]

So expect another BfA which will be disliked. Same stale old formula does not, in fact, work for most people repeatedly.

I'll never understand why peaceniks came to a franchise called Warcraft.

Yes I want a good war, because that is what Warcraft is. I want WC3, Classic, Wrath, Cata, and heck even a little bit of MoP without the part where they try to end the war. All were a good war. All were a continuation or escalation of previous aggression as the cycle demands it. And all but MoP had a big bad show up without neglecting to remind us we hate each other and always will. BfA was not a good war at all. It had the potential for it but didn't bother to pursue it and instead changed the formula halfway to spit on everything that it could have been. The reason the story is so bad is because they ruined the formula.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

The proud tradition of hanging heads on your belt should be taken up again by orcs.