WTH is wrong with people?

[Azerate]

My alternative idea was add 4th specs to the game, giving alternate roles to all the pure DPS classes, that would increase the amount of people willing to try other roles I guarantee it.

So basically:



This is no longer WoW in which it's hard to have multiple alts. People who play pure dps classes play them because they want to DPS. If they wanted to try out some basic tanking, which I'm sure many of them do, there is no problem doing that on another character in dungeons.

Yes, if you gave a new spec to every class, people would definitely try it at first, but that doens't mean they would suddenly start enjoying tanking. Your guess is just as good as mine, or anyone else's.

[Soon-TM]

You can always invite new tanks, so there is no problem at all, eh?

Kicking a troll usually is much, much faster than finding a new tank. But you're welcome to keep the trolls around if it pleases you.

[arkanon]

Blame blizzard on designing it in such a way that people can bail.

ALL rewards should be given at the end of the last boss/fight.

Only way to make the average troll not screw over other people.

Easily the worst idea of the week - what happens if you dont kill the last boss? What happens if the servers crash? Everyone loses hours of work.....talk about creating a HUGE problem to try and fix a tiny perceived issue.

What about literally ALL progression?

[Soluna]

its Wednesday reset so i decided to pug normal quickly for echoes, i get my group together we kill wrathion then we go maut, kill him but not with out a few deaths to aoe, i guess ppl forgot to update dbm and as soon as maut falls both tanks jump ship???? wth is wrong with ppl, you don't join a rush run for a specific item as tank and now the id is screwed as tank wont want to join as trinket boss is dead and no1 else wants to join coz 2 bosses are dead.....

Oh you mean exactly like melee used to do for ashvane and conclave trinkets? That's just pug life mate.

[lordjust]

My alternative idea was add 4th specs to the game, giving alternate roles to all the pure DPS classes, that would increase the amount of people willing to try other roles I guarantee it.

...

Just because people have the option doesn't mean people will use that option. Blizzard tried over and over again to make tanking and healing more attractive and nothing worked so far. I have all classes at max level and rarely tank or heal because you'll get the blame for everything in PUGS. Especially in raids as a tank or healer you have to communicate with other people and actually know the fights and its mechanics. As a DPS your individual responsibility is a lot smaller and people like that. They're allowed to make mistakes because there are more than enough other DPS that can compensate that. If you have 2 tanks or 4 healer it's easier to see if a mistake was made and who made it.

[ymirsson]

Kicking a troll usually is much, much faster than finding a new tank. But you're welcome to keep the trolls around if it pleases you.

Thats all hypothetical anyway, since we get loot per boss, not at the end of a wing. Which would be stupid.

[Unholyground]

Just because people have the option doesn't mean people will use that option. Blizzard tried over and over again to make tanking and healing more attractive and nothing worked so far. I have all classes at max level and rarely tank or heal because you'll get the blame for everything in PUGS. Especially in raids as a tank or healer you have to communicate with other people and actually know the fights and its mechanics. As a DPS your individual responsibility is a lot smaller and people like that. They're allowed to make mistakes because there are more than enough other DPS that can compensate that. If you have 2 tanks or 4 healer it's easier to see if a mistake was made and who made it.

I really think you underestimate how many people don't actively play alts, most people stick to one character that is the main over all their others more often than not. Do a lot of people dabble? Yes but no one keeps a bunch at max and caught up to current content all the way through an expansion. There really isn't enough time in a day if you have responsibilities to do that.

[Mardux]

the diffirence is losing 2 dps dosen't make it impossible to finish the run and dosen't force ppl to join another grp just to complete it

Losing 2 tanks doesnt make it impossible either...

- - - Updated - - -

dono as i've never seen that also killed skitra and im left searching for another tank....

I hope you rolled 20 on that bluff check. You gonna need it.

- - - Updated - - -

It is normal.

If any tank bails on s normal due to 1 item not dropping. They are bad.

I can understand heroic. However normal is pathetic.

They most likely did not leave a normal due to an item. It was probably the bad players who died on an easy boss that at this point can be killed with 6 players on normal.

Not really because like you said, it's normal.

The only thing indicative of "bad" is a raid lead who cant post to lfg because they need 2 tanks for a normal run (of which most can easily be done solo tanking)

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have any proof that "multi classing" would make more people tank? Having multiple characters is already pretty easy to do. People don't tank/heal because it's more demanding of a role that also requires leading the whole group usually (in the case of being a tank).



No, the way for an average troll not to screw you over is to run the raid with guilds, communities, and premade groups of different kinds. You can't be giving rewards from killing the first boss after killing the last one, that would be a major pain, not too mention that not every group will even clear the whole thing... This could maybe work for LFR, but not above.

You also get way more flak from the toxic trolls as a tank. One mistake, even when inconsequential, has people calling you trash and making troll threads on mmoc.

[Firebert]

This is why Normal mode should have queuing and matchmaking just like LFR.

People can't be trusted to be human beings.

[Mardux]

So basically:



This is no longer WoW in which it's hard to have multiple alts. People who play pure dps classes play them because they want to DPS. If they wanted to try out some basic tanking, which I'm sure many of them do, there is no problem doing that on another character in dungeons.

Yes, if you gave a new spec to every class, people would definitely try it at first, but that doens't mean they would suddenly start enjoying tanking. Your guess is just as good as mine, or anyone else's.

Especially considering half the "specs" in their "solution" arent even tanks, just more dps for people to (wait for it)... not tank on.

[Lord Pebbleton]

This is no longer WoW in which it's hard to have multiple alts. People who play pure dps classes play them because they want to DPS. If they wanted to try out some basic tanking, which I'm sure many of them do, there is no problem doing that on another character in dungeons.

Yes, if you gave a new spec to every class, people would definitely try it at first, but that doens't mean they would suddenly start enjoying tanking. Your guess is just as good as mine, or anyone else's.

I agree 100%. New specs may result in some people trying out tanking and healing, but the majority at this point knows what they want to be or do.

I have been a hunter main since TBC and even if I had a tank spec I would still dps, because if I REALLY wanted to try, I could hop on my druid, death knight, paladin or monk alts.

[Mardux]

This is why Normal mode should have queuing and matchmaking just like LFR.

People can't be trusted to be human beings.

I dont know about you, but I lost a bit of that trust when OP couldnt post up in lfg saying the group needed tanks.

If the RL cant figure out how to post the group, why would I expect tanks to carry them through normal?

Then again, OP also could have just gone tank. But then we'd only have half this thread.

[Detritivores]

Jokes on them the Maut trinket is garbage.

At any rate, this is what pugging is. People have different goals. Their goals aren't your goals. That doesn't mean anything is wrong with them. If anything it means something is wrong with you that you think everyone should share your personal goals. If you are committing to the dumpster fire that is pugging, accept that you will rebuild the raid basically every boss. Then you will achieve true inner peace and not need to post when people predictably behave like people.

All the best,
Det

[Wuusah]

My advice would be to invite tanks that need more than just 1 item. I know it's easy to invite high ilvl players, but these people are after specific things, they leave the second it takes too long since they don't really need anything.

This right here is the life lesson. Don't invite people who are drastically overequipped into your raid if you don't want them to leave early. Same with Mythic+. Don't invite 2k+ rio people into your +15 group if you just want to finish the dungeon, no matter if in time or not. They don't want to "just finish it". Those overequipped players don't want to go through the whole raid. Why should they? It's not like there is anything you could get from the other bosses, like back in the days with token.

Everyone has their own goals. Make sure to invite people with the same as yours into your group. Don't expect them to give a shit about what you want.

[crakerjack]

Since it's normal difficulty and there's no lockout, I honestly can't see what the big issue is. Worst case scenario is the pug dies and you have to join a fresh pug and kill the first 2 bosses again without any loot. I'd leave a pug too if people were dying on normal difficulty, even if we killed the boss. What makes WoW boring and unappealing is when you play with mediocre people who can't be bothered to read a guide on their class and/or read up on the fight. I'd leave a pug regardless if I notice there's people in it who aren't trying.

[arkanon]

This right here is the life lesson. Don't invite people who are drastically overequipped into your raid if you don't want them to leave early. Same with Mythic+. Don't invite 2k+ rio people into your +15 group if you just want to finish the dungeon, no matter if in time or not. They don't want to "just finish it". Those overequipped players don't want to go through the whole raid. Why should they? It's not like there is anything you could get from the other bosses, like back in the days with token.

Everyone has their own goals. Make sure to invite people with the same as yours into your group. Don't expect them to give a shit about what you want.

This is the truth right here - I usually form our pugs (normal or heroic, depending what alts we are on) and recently i was late, so asked another guildy to form the raid. When i got on discord, two of them were super excited that it would be a very quick run, as the pugs "should be running mythic, not heroic". I tried to explain what was about to happen, but they insisted on starting. By the 4th boss, we had lost / replaced MOST of the pugs.

Generally, when forming a raid, I will always have a tank parked outside, and if possible, another mate / guildy doing the same (assuming im not tanking myself from the start). Its really quite simple - when forming a raid, and some massively overgeared person requests an invite - do two things - check they know its normal not heroic, or heroic not mythic or w/e, and secondly, ask them directly "mate you are way overgeared, you sure you want to come?" they will usually respond with "still need the weapon off the last boss and it just wont drop" or w/e their motivation is.

Lastly, if you do the above and someone says "honestly, i just need the weapon off the 4th boss" thats totally fine too imo, i often let people join who i know have no intention of finishing the run - so long as i take that into account when forming the raid, there is no issue.

I think my biggest issue by far here is the assertion that tanks have some higher obligation to stay with a group compared to a dps - this really pisses me off, as for the most part, dps in the lower difficulties have next to no responsibility already, and the tanks take the brunt of responsibility. Now some are saying that not only do these 2 players have to do the role that many refuse to do, but they are obligated to stay for the entire run, while dps are free to come and go as they please.

Maybe, JUUUUUUUST maybe, this is a big part of the reason there can be a shortage of tanks willing to pug.

[Quaght]

Pugs are called pugs for a reason

Because they're small and can't breathe?

[Pohut]

Sorry what? DPS can do it, but tanks can't? Why not?

[arkanon]

Sorry what? DPS can do it, but tanks can't? Why not?

Because OP is inconvenienced more by a tank leaving, which means they are "forced" to replace that player (as they are obviously unwilling to tank it themselves). Im not saying its entitlement...........but i cant think of a way to finish that sentence.

- - - Updated - - -

Since it's normal difficulty and there's no lockout, I honestly can't see what the big issue is. Worst case scenario is the pug dies and you have to join a fresh pug and kill the first 2 bosses again without any loot. I'd leave a pug too if people were dying on normal difficulty, even if we killed the boss. What makes WoW boring and unappealing is when you play with mediocre people who can't be bothered to read a guide on their class and/or read up on the fight. I'd leave a pug regardless if I notice there's people in it who aren't trying.

If people were dying on the first couple of bosses in normal, it would seem the run was doomed anyway, so that could have been a factor for sure. Or, they just wanted the trinket. Either way, neither tank has any special, bonded obligation to stay for the entire run any more than any other class / role.

[Soon-TM]

This is why Normal mode should have queuing and matchmaking just like LFR.

People can't be trusted to be human beings.

Yes, I've often thought that LFR should be deleted and Normal be made queueable. There isn't really a difference in difficulty.