Preach Interview with Ion Hazzikostas

[THEORACLE64]

I quite like that there’s a consequence to changing covenants. It reminds me a little of talent choices back in Classic, essentially having to pay a bigger price every time you wanted to switch - thus making you clearly think about the choices you made before making them.

[Sluvs]

You know, just let us built renown with all four covenants and lock things on covenants other than your main at very high renown levels.

Yeah, that might work as well. At least the hardcore crowd will be somewhat pleased I suppose. Though I do like the idea of tying lore and quest into it a little bit better, maybe do something like the quest only unlocks at a certain level of renown.

[Tesshin20]

"they want to give players a more "identity" choice over just "loadout" choices"

This is such a cop out. The real answer is "we want to force people to spend as much time playing as possible to hide the lack of content". It's clear as day that people are going to be switching around covenants, Blizzard just doesn't want everyone unsubbing between patches.

"players whose play style emphasizes player power"

You mean every player in the game? Isn't that the point?

I think its funny when people get mad at Blizzard for trying to make you play their game as much as possible. Isn't this what they should do. Where do you see a gaming company that wants to limit you to how much you play their game?

[Nagawithlegs]

The problem is that Ion’s (Blizzard’s) goal is just not going to happen. Our (the players) behavior works against what they are trying to achieve. They want multiple hunters to all be different from each other by making different choices. But is that going to happen? Probably not. Our behavior through the last 5 years shows one thing clearly: Almost everyone chooses what is best. So they might give us different choices but the reality is that most people will pick the same choice: The best one. This is what frustrates people like Preach. Blizzard are trying to achieve the impossible. Ion can sometimes seem a bit delusional in relation to his goals. Blizzard are trying to achieve something which goes completely again the usual behavior of the players.

I think that's the point of all the gameplay oriented systems: by making so many layers, it's harder to find BIS combinations because there's so many combinations to test.

People are very unlikely to all be running the same talents, covenant, soulbind, conduit AND legendaries per class because the goal is to make it so there ISN'T a BIS.

[Lazuli]

Their so called "goals" (which are always complete bullshit hollow gated grinds) never, ever , EVER work out according to what they say or what their "intention" is.

Their opinion of "this is what makes an rpg" is way off base, because if your playerbase doesn't appreciate these systems or enjoy them then who gives a flying FUCK if its rpg or not.

Basically, Blizzard is retarded as shit, as usual. Skip this xpac they are still completely delusional lol.

[Kaver]

You are admitting that this issue is made by the community and at the same time blaming Blizzard for trying to push against it. The alternative would be much worse.

If Blizzard embraced the minority that minmax and streamlined absolutely everything as if it was a competitive PVP game, the game would die.

It’s human behavior. Most of us chooses whatever is best. Most of us like to be the best we can be. You can call it what you will but it doesn’t change the outcome. I’m not blaming Blizzard for anything but as I see it they are trying to fight again basic human behavior and it seems like an impossible struggle. They want people to make different choices but that is an incredibly difficult goal to have when most people will always choose whatever is best. They have a very idealistic mindset on this topic which is not bad but it’s just not how most players play the game. I see it as a losing battle and I predict that they are going to change the system at some point.

[Kaver]

People are very unlikely to all be running the same talents, covenant, soulbind, conduit AND legendaries per class because the goal is to make it so there ISN'T a BIS.

I think they will. There will always be a BiS. Personally I believe that there most likely still will be a cookie cutter build that most people will run. History shows this. No matter how many systems they make there will still be a cookie cutter build.

[RobertoCarlos]

They will just wait till the last patch then do the fix everyone asked for since beta and they'll say "we listened" no you strung us along

[Trinkie]

Maybe stop playing in an uneducated, toxic environment where you can't enjoy the game the way you want? It's really not that hard of a solution that has nothing to do with Blizzard.

Except the toxic environment is enforced by the players. Feral druids, shadow priests, any locks, elemental shaman, enhancement, survival, marksman

They had a stigma for the entire expansion, regardless of where you were.

[kevincuomo]

They are going to screw Covenants up so much its not even funny. The game will be released and a month in they will change Covenant abilities and completely screw everyone over who invested time into what they wanted before the changes. If you think SL will be different than BFA systems you are in some serious denial.

[Tesshin20]

I mean, it's honestly not hard to understand why people are upset about not being able to freely switch between them. Let me start out by saying I don't care if I pick the worst/best covenant for my class/spec, I'm going 100% off of theme and will make do with whatever abilities I get. As someone who is super competitive in almost everything I'm passionate about, I too at first was taken back when they announced switching covenants wouldn't be simple. I like to min/max and make sure I'm able to perform to the best of my abilities. So why are people upset? You have 4 differently themed covenants, but because you care about how you perform, you might have to prioritize covenant abilities over the theme. Maybe you really love Maldraxxus and want to pick it for its theme, but the abilities for your particular class/spec are subpar compared to the other 3. Players then have to choose what's more important, their performance or the theme surrounding their character.

It's not hard to comprehend why people are upset and tbh, it's kind of annoying seeing the whole "WoW is an RPG, why are people freaking out about decision making?" because that aspect hasn't been a thing in WoW. For the first time that I can recollect in 15 years of playing this game, we're now faced with a decision that'll affect how we play shadowlands for 2~ years, if not longer.

Someone doesn't need to be a top 0.01% player to feel affected by these decisions. Have you ever sat down and watched cooed softball? I've played 10+ seasons and I can safely tell you, people are competitive regardless of how far they've made it. I've seen girls/guys ruin their bodies over a casual softball game where there's no money/fame to be earned regardless of the outcome.

So when people try to min/max, what happens when their best overall covenant ability gets nerfed? Now in order to continue min/maxing, they have to switch covenants and grind renown for their new covenant. I fully 100% understand why people are upset and I can relate.

All that being said, I just know I'm setting myself up for a bad time if I try to min/max with covenants. I have blind faith in blizzard that they'll be able to fine tune all the abilities so that even if I choose the worst one for my spec/class, I'm not drastically hindering my performance. I severely doubt people will be hindered from doing the hardest content possible whether it's mythic raiding, high keystones or pushing for gladiator. You might not get r1 or world first, but to insinuate that you won't get into pugs or will be benched because you didn't pick the correct covenant is absolutely 100% wild speculations with a heavy seasoning of bias/emotions.

tl;dr: People have every right to be upset with forced decisions, but I also believe those who think these decisions will impede them from doing the highest difficulty content are delusional.

I get your point. I think that the answer to your post is that every system has its negatives and positives. This time, the upper percentage of min-maxers will have to face some annoynce. But somehow I think that should come with the territory. I don't think WoW is has the framework to be a good game in a very competitive environment. It's not built that way from the ground up, and people that trying to make it so, has to pay for a cost for it.

- - - Updated - - -

It’s human behavior. Most of us chooses whatever is best. Most of us like to be the best we can be. You can call it what you will but it doesn’t change the outcome. I’m not blaming Blizzard for anything but as I see it they are trying to fight again basic human behavior and it seems like an impossible struggle. They want people to make different choices but that is an incredibly difficult goal to have when most people will always choose whatever is best. They have a very idealistic mindset on this topic which is not bad but it’s just not how most players play the game. I see it as a losing battle and I predict that they are going to change the system at some point.

I agree, but again I don't see how why if Blizzard followed the mindset which is only shared by the upper 5% or so of the community, it would make anything better.

I agree the system is not perfect for anyone, but to complain about it is almost arguing that such a system is possible in the first place.

[Easo]

Then people need to change the attitude of pugs or better yet join fucking guilds. Catering to these people is like catering to the brain dead over the guys who actually bothered to educate themselves. One must never cater to the stupid or lazy even if they make up the numbers.

Not everyone can be in a guild which raids, not everyone want's to be in one.
There is no easy solution for this.

[Yavi Dawnsong]

I personally think it's a good choice not to pander to people wanting to swap in and out covenants constantly. I know people are concerned that they'll be rejected from groups for having the wrong covenant, but honestly if you're only joining one to have the bigger numbers and don't care at all about the actual choice then what's the point of it being an RPG in the first place?

It's already so dull that people just open a webpage and copy-paste the talents, gems, enchants, essencess ect. that they see there, it would actually be nice if the choice you make was for a better reason that just some 1% increase, that could very well just change on the next patch anyway.

I'd rather that their response to all this is they just lock you in permanantly to your choice.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They have a very idealistic mindset on this topic which is not bad but it’s just not how most players play the game. I see it as a losing battle and I predict that they are going to change the system at some point.

Not to mention that they have cultivated this playerbase over 15+ years, because they never had these kinds of choices (no aldor and scryer is nowhere near that).

[Vakir]

I think its funny when people get mad at Blizzard for trying to make you play their game as much as possible. Isn't this what they should do. Where do you see a gaming company that wants to limit you to how much you play their game?

Artificial engagement. If people enjoy a game with a lot of content to go through, they will play it. People are frustrated with systems designed to extend play through artificial means like having issues with tuning between specs or activities. Not things like "X is the best Covenant" - the problem is more similar to "X is the best for THIS spec but NOT in PvP so if you want to feel like you're doing your best, go to Covenant Y or Z but only if you're doing THESE things." Like a damn flowchart for some classes!

All people want is for there to be interesting diversity between talents and abilities, but to not have severe FOMO and not feel constrained to only play effectively in one setting. Blizzard would solve the "loadout" problem, ironically, if the choices you could freely swap like a loadout weren't at an 80% pickrate. Which many are.

There's other issues, like the monkey's paw of "What if I like playing my best regardless of whether I must, but I also hate the aesthetic of my Covenant? What if I like the aesthetic and the ability but I really fucking hate doing the party activity every week?" ...really lots of problems that are fixable by having more freedom in terms of the gameplay end while keeping choice to flavor, aesthetic, and story.

[Kaibhan]

So the issue with covenants is that it's a pain in the ass to go back to what you had if you abandon it. You can switch easily enough but can't go back easy. I don't see that as being a large problem. I guess if so many people really think it is a problem perhaps a week long trial before accepting abandoning your old covenant would be a good enough solution. Or even a catch up mechanic so if you go like 4 weeks without switching the old covenant lets bygones be bygones and welcomes you back. Then it's a meaningful choice without being crippling throughout the expac.

Or perhaps they could just literally go account wide wide with everything ala ESO or GW2 and then character doesn't really matter. Many solutions to a niche problem

[Hinastorm]

Except the toxic environment is enforced by the players. Feral druids, shadow priests, any locks, elemental shaman, enhancement, survival, marksman

They had a stigma for the entire expansion, regardless of where you were.

Unless you're playing with people who are actually playing the game for fun. I'm in such a guild, we'd usually clear a few mythic bosses each tier, and we never really cared what spec people were, within reason.

[Kaver]

I agree, but again I don't see how why if Blizzard followed the mindset which is only shared by the upper 5% or so of the community, it would make anything better.

I agree the system is not perfect for anyone, but to complain about it is almost arguing that such a system is possible in the first place.

I think it’s a misconception that this mindset is only shared by the top 5%. Player choices from the last 2 expansions clearly indicate that most players choose whatever is best. This has applied to specs, talents, legendaries, azerite powers, essences etc. Almost no one choose anything other than the meta and this mindset of being the best you can see from LFR raiders, normal raiders and heroic raiders. Blizzard try to apply a very idealistic approach of player choice to the game, but unfortunately this will most like fail because of the sad truth: Most players don’t want choice. They simply want whatever is best.

This is also why we see BM hunter and Havoc DH being by far the two most played specs in the game. These specs just functions extremely well and that is what people want. Plain and simple. Choice is overrated. Sadly.

[dewd]

even if they balance them numbers wise there will still be a best choice everyone agrees and is only looking for in the pug world. 'oh you chose that covenant? delete char pls'

i absolutely hated the clarity of power playstyle of shadow during wod and got kicked from so many raids once they saw i had void entropy because the internet said everything but clarity of power is shit even though given the chance i did the same damage at the end of fights just without the burst.

[thilicen]

If I end up playing SL I will not be choosing the covenant I identify with / like the most because I know already there are better covenants to match my spec and playstyle, and that fucking sucks ass.