Solution to the whole covenant problem.

[Krakan]

Just disable alternative power progression systems in instanced content and keep covenants ,ap, soulbindings as world only abilities.

Everyone wins then. People who play content that relies on balance get what they want and people who want to grind and never stop growing in power become demigods of the open world. Also opens up covenants for those who care about performance and lore by making the covenant not impact high end play.

Everyone wins but those weird people who want to force others into their game modes.

[Justpassing]

Don't think there's a problem.

[Seranthor]

Just disable alternative power progression systems in instanced content and keep covenants ,ap, soulbindings as world only abilities.

Everyone wins then. People who play content that relies on balance get what they want and people who want to grind and never stop growing in power become demigods of the open world. Also opens up covenants for those who care about performance and lore by making the covenant not impact high end play.

Everyone wins but those weird people who want to force others into their game modes.

So you dont want to deal with the consequences of your choices, is that accurate?

[Jastall]

Sure, make players feel their weakest, least versatile and least able to react in the hardest content. That's sure to go over well.

[Krakan]

So you dont want to deal with the consequences of your choices, is that accurate?

I don't want to deal with grinds. I have the ability to wrestle with the fact that respecing per boss is a choice and killing 10000 world mobs does not make it more or less of a choice.

[Seranthor]

I don't want to deal with grinds. I have the ability to wrestle with the fact that respecing per boss is a choice and killing 10000 world mobs does not make it more or less of a choice.

Thank you for that clarification...

[Razion]

If all people associate with the permanence of the choice is negativity in relation to their performance and the regret of not being optimal, it starts to look like the freedom to adjust the choice just makes people happy not only in being able to have the playstyle of the abilities and the experience of story that they want but also a confidence in being able to adjust to be optimal at a whim. The freedom to let people experiment with what isn't optimal but also play with what is is probably understated as well.

[Krakan]

If all people associate with the permanence of the choice is negativity in relation to their performance and the regret of not being optimal, it starts to look like the freedom to adjust the choice just makes people happy not only in being able to have the playstyle of the abilities and the experience of story that they want but also a confidence in being able to adjust to be optimal at a whim. The freedom to let people experiment with what isn't optimal but also play with what is is probably understated as well.

I think people just like to pretend that choices in wow don't boil down to how many mobs you are going to fight at once 9/10 times.

[razorpax]

Or

Hear me out

Allow us to swap the power abilities

Jesus Christ why do ppl want to make idiotically complicated and annoying systems when a simple thing like unlocking them from the covenant is a solution

Seriously who actually loses

[Mirishka]

Just disable alternative power progression systems in instanced content and keep covenants ,ap, soulbindings as world only abilities.

Everyone wins then. People who play content that relies on balance get what they want and people who want to grind and never stop growing in power become demigods of the open world. Also opens up covenants for those who care about performance and lore by making the covenant not impact high end play.

Everyone wins but those weird people who want to force others into their game modes.

Hate to break it to you but 'I don't like this so change it for everyone' is just another flavor of 'weird people who want to force others'.

[Mysterymask]

Swear to god wow players are always on a tangent to not play world of warcraft

[Darknessvamp]

I could see that working with a simple Debuff.
Shadow of the Jailer: Your connection to your chosen covenant is diminished whilst in Mythic Dungeons, your borrowed power weakens.
Denathrius' Reign: Whilst Denathrius continues to rule over Castle Nathria your soulbound connection to your covenant wanes.
etc. for new Raids.
Then they could even have something like once you clear a raid on a certain difficulty, future runs allow you to use your covenant powers to give a boost to clearing it. No one has to min max and people can choose whatever covenant they want and still use the powers at some point in the raids.

[Krakan]

Hate to break it to you but 'I don't like this so change it for everyone' is just another flavor of 'weird people who want to force others'.

By not forcing anything on anyone?

I really wish people would say what they are posting out loud and honestly ask themselves if it makes sense before posting it.

- - - Updated - - -

I could see that working with a simple Debuff.
Shadow of the Jailer: Your connection to your chosen covenant is diminished whilst in Mythic Dungeons, your borrowed power weakens.
Denathrius' Reign: Whilst Denathrius continues to rule over Castle Nathria your soulbound connection to your covenant wanes.
etc. for new Raids.
Then they could even have something like once you clear a raid on a certain difficulty, future runs allow you to use your covenant powers to give a boost to clearing it. No one has to min max and people can choose whatever covenant they want and still use the powers at some point in the raids.

This sounds like a pretty good solution.

[Selastan]

Covenants are PERFECT. The harder it is to have a mathematically 'perfect' character, the better.

[Krakan]

Covenants are PERFECT. The harder it is to have a mathematically 'perfect' character, the better.

It isn't hard though...

[Selastan]

It isn't hard though...

No, it isn't, and that's the problem. Covenants, which give unique abilities and are a pain to change, are a step in the right direction.

[Krakan]

No, it isn't, and that's the problem. Covenants, which give unique abilities and are a pain to change, are a step in the right direction.

Can you actually explain how without using pointless catch phrases like meaningful choice or rpg?

[temple1906]

I guarantee you that this will only be a problem for the first tier. In 8.1 there will be a story thing and all of the Covenants will unite and you'll get a new thing to grind for each Covenant that unlocks their abilities for you. It will be some BS like that.

[Dracullus]

Just disable alternative power progression systems in instanced content and keep covenants ,ap, soulbindings as world only abilities.

Everyone wins then. People who play content that relies on balance get what they want and people who want to grind and never stop growing in power become demigods of the open world. Also opens up covenants for those who care about performance and lore by making the covenant not impact high end play.

Everyone wins but those weird people who want to force others into their game modes.

I think whole progression system (especially since there will be no "infinite AP") should stay. And many spells are really cool.

My idea: for completing 9.0 covenant campaign you get item/toy that let you switch your covenant ONLY inside:
- Mythic raid
- M+ higher than 20
- rated arena/battleground

Your choice would still matter in 99% content people do, and cutting edge player wouldn't have their game destroyed.

[ClassicPeon]

Covenants have 2 problems atm.

1. the gems. I'm 70% sure the solution to this is just gonna be to have a library of unlockable gems that you can freely switch between.

2. The covenant abilities. I think the class wide abilities should probably not be available in instanced content(pvp or pve) but the class specific ones should. It would feel horrible to have to shift your actual rotation everytime you enter or exit instanced combat. I think those abilities or something we are going to have to learn to live with and just hope they arent too unlanaced on release.