Death Knight Soulbinds - What are you picking and why?

[dubious_doomhammer]

I've spent the last few days mulling over all the soulbind information and I think I've narrowed my choice to Necrolords or Venthyr - the other two do not look that great, unless I'm missing something.

I would be interested to know, if anyone has alpha or beta access, or a huge math brain, which of the two I mentioned above would have higher throughput, or whether they'll be functionally similar in terms of dps (I realize they are subject to change, just looking for opinions on how they are now).

I would prefer Necrolords, aesthetically, but if Venthyr provided a larger dps increase, I would probably end up going that way.

Aside from my questions above, what are you guys picking - are you going for dps/utility or aesthetics only?

[Alanar]

Its beta... its very hard to tell or be 100%, but I hope for you in the end you will pick one you like over dps increase.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Its beta... its very hard to tell or be 100%, but I hope for you in the end you will pick one you like over dps increase.

Yep, I realize its beta and I'm not asking anyone to be 100% or would I hold it against them if they ended up being wrong. Doing DPS is what's ultimately fun for me ... what looks good comes in second.

[Nihiel]

Just a minor thing: what you are talking about is the different covenants. Once you've chosen a covenant you gain access to three different soulbinds that are unique to each covenant - these are reminiscent of talent trees.

As for Necrolord and Venthyr, as things are looking now and based on my initial experience on the beta, Venthyr is most likely the stronger dps option. Swarming Mist grants a lot of RP in multitarget situations which feeds into Breath for frost and Gargoyle for UH. One of the soulbinds for Venthyr grants you a buff which speeds up time for you every once in a while, letting you do your thing quicker than usual - another soulbind grants you 10 % vers when you use Swarming Mist which probably would be used during your cd windows anyway. Because of this I'd argue that Venthyr is quite strong in most situations.

Necrolord on the other hand I'm not impressed by. Abomination Limb seems more useful for its utility rather than dps, and none of the final talents in the soulbind trees seem that impactful for damage. There is a stacking haste buff talent in one soulbind and a crit proc in another, but as things are looking now I don't see Necrolord being competitive with Venthyr.

[Clone]

Going with necrolords for the xmog. I don't main DK so the xmog would get more mileage for me than power.

[Trinkie]

I've spent the last few days mulling over all the soulbind information and I think I've narrowed my choice to Necrolords or Venthyr - the other two do not look that great, unless I'm missing something.

I would be interested to know, if anyone has alpha or beta access, or a huge math brain, which of the two I mentioned above would have higher throughput, or whether they'll be functionally similar in terms of dps (I realize they are subject to change, just looking for opinions on how they are now).

I would prefer Necrolords, aesthetically, but if Venthyr provided a larger dps increase, I would probably end up going that way.

Aside from my questions above, what are you guys picking - are you going for dps/utility or aesthetics only?

Remember it's not always about the covenant ability itself, you gotta factor in the soulbinds.

[Skjaldborg]

Obligatory "there's no tuning yet," but I'm going to advocate for Night Fae. No, the aesthetic doesn't appeal to everybody, but I don't think we can write off Death's Due. For Blood, it's very high uptime on damage reduction from enemies and basically 100% uptime on the 15% strength, which is good. The buff lasts 10 seconds, and is refreshed whenever DnD ticks, so with Blood's 15 sec CD on DnD/Death's Due, you can have that buff on yourself all the time. In M+ the damage reduction will persist on long-lived trash and bosses, and during raids the damage reduction is also basically permanent. 15% less damage taken from a raid boss is not negligible.

For Unholy, it's not quite as good because of the 30 second CD on DnD/Death's Due, but that's still pretty high uptime on the Str buff (33% of the time unbuffed, 33% of the time stacking the buff, 33% of the time with the max buff). Of course, if multiple targets are present, the uptime on the 15% Str is increased, with it taking less time to stack up to max.

Furthermore, and the real winner for me, is Niya's soulbind capstone. Currently it reads that "when you use your covenant ability, gain 10% mastery, which fades gradually over 5 minutes." That kinda sounds like it drops by 1% every 30 seconds. The CD of Death's Due is at most 30 seconds. So DKs can get 100% uptime on 10% extra mastery, and high uptime on all the Strength coming from Death's Due. Combined with Niya giving you access to at least 2 DPS conduits, and potentially 3 DPS conduits, and that's a strong setup.

Honestly, if people are drooling over Draven's capstone (10% Versatility 1/6th of the time) and Nadja's capstone (it takes 80 seconds to get Thrill Seeker in pure single target, so worst-case is 10 sec of the buff every 90 seconds, but realistically with adds it'll be up much more often), neither of whom can realistically afford to give you more than 2 DPS conduits, I'm surprised that Niya and Night Fae in general aren't getting more buzz.

Of course, tuning may change all of this.

[Saltysquidoon]

Draven's capstone with the group versi and the RP gains from mist are going to be amazing for blood (at least on prog when you care about survivability).

[dubious_doomhammer]

Just a minor thing: what you are talking about is the different covenants. Once you've chosen a covenant you gain access to three different soulbinds that are unique to each covenant - these are reminiscent of talent trees.

I probably worded the original post poorly. I understand that the soulbinds are unique to each covenant - I was curious if people are choosing a specific covenant for the dps soulbinds, or if they were choosing a covenant for the aesthetics, regardless of what the soulbinds are.

As for Necrolord and Venthyr, as things are looking now and based on my initial experience on the beta, Venthyr is most likely the stronger dps option. Swarming Mist grants a lot of RP in multitarget situations which feeds into Breath for frost and Gargoyle for UH. One of the soulbinds for Venthyr grants you a buff which speeds up time for you every once in a while, letting you do your thing quicker than usual - another soulbind grants you 10 % vers when you use Swarming Mist which probably would be used during your cd windows anyway. Because of this I'd argue that Venthyr is quite strong in most situations.

Necrolord on the other hand I'm not impressed by. Abomination Limb seems more useful for its utility rather than dps, and none of the final talents in the soulbind trees seem that impactful for damage. There is a stacking haste buff talent in one soulbind and a crit proc in another, but as things are looking now I don't see Necrolord being competitive with Venthyr.

That's unfortunate, but thank you for that information.

[Dashwood]

Just a minor thing: what you are talking about is the different covenants. Once you've chosen a covenant you gain access to three different soulbinds that are unique to each covenant - these are reminiscent of talent trees.

As for Necrolord and Venthyr, as things are looking now and based on my initial experience on the beta, Venthyr is most likely the stronger dps option. Swarming Mist grants a lot of RP in multitarget situations which feeds into Breath for frost and Gargoyle for UH. One of the soulbinds for Venthyr grants you a buff which speeds up time for you every once in a while, letting you do your thing quicker than usual - another soulbind grants you 10 % vers when you use Swarming Mist which probably would be used during your cd windows anyway. Because of this I'd argue that Venthyr is quite strong in most situations.

Necrolord on the other hand I'm not impressed by. Abomination Limb seems more useful for its utility rather than dps, and none of the final talents in the soulbind trees seem that impactful for damage. There is a stacking haste buff talent in one soulbind and a crit proc in another, but as things are looking now I don't see Necrolord being competitive with Venthyr.

I am not in beta, but I am very worried abom limb is going to be mandatory for PvP based on that utility. Locking down ranged targets seems too good.

[Skildar]

I will pick the night fae for their movement ability and the improved aoe.

[Bexlyn]

I'm picking Necro or Venthyr, not decided which yet, depends on tuning.

As a DK I point blank refuse to go Fairies of Paladins

[Rooskie1993]

As someone who play's all 3 DK specs, but mains Unholy I will be picking Venthyr or Night Fae.

Venthyr: Door of Shadows, can become instant cast later on - DK Mobility check. 1 min CD RP generator that is both really good for Breath Build Frost & Gargoyle RP gen, as well as pumping Epidemics out in AoE, it's 3 RP per second per target with cap of 15.

Soulbinds give 5% str if above 80% hp and 10% versa when using cov ability.

Night Fae: DnD gives the 1% str drain per target which stops at the end of DnD so very high uptime on the buff, and not just that the last talent in Night Fae gives 10% mastery when you use the DnD decaying over 2 mins (was changed from 5).

Soulshape can be used in combat which is another form of mobility which dks need.

Right now both are good for all 3 specs, but venthyr pulls ahead on single target for Frost & Unholy, and isn't far behind Night Fae on AoE, but only time will tell.

Kyrian & Necrlord both suck, Kyrian is a single target dot, Necrolord is just constant deathgrips which personally I was going to take just purely for PvP but the benefits from the other 2 are way too big.


Most top end DKs i've been watching on beta lately have the same mindset as what i've posted and can't really decide between venthyr & nightfae, most leaning more venthyr way though.

[Bexlyn]

Having abilities attached the the covenants is such a dumb idea. If you want the Necro transmog and mount you have to actively take a suboptimal pve talent in order to get it. Absolutely stupid

[Cosmic Janitor]

Venthyr, I like the armor still enough, the ability works well, the theme still fits the class somewhat and the gimmiks are also okay by the looks of it.

I can't stand necrolords, the ability is silly and situationally usefull, but that's it. Kyrian I wouldn't mind, since I'm over drap places in WoW at this point, but the abilities are lame. Nightfae just doesn't fit DK, the ability looks nice and is usefull, but I don't think the armor works for DK either.

[msmollymillions]

Venthyr has the best covenant ability and covenant class ability for pretty much every DK spec and functions decently in PvP and awesome soul binds. Night Fae is a trap for PvP, any ability that requires you to stand in place sucks. Necrolord is a PvE trap. Great CD for PvP but the soulbinds are meh and in PvE it falls the previous two behind. Kyrian can get fucked cause angel death knights are dumb.

[Th3Scourge]

The DK soulbinds and conduits are not really that impactful and are rather boring. Much like how lacklustre the DK legendaries are. Leaning heavily towards dropping the class in favour of Warlock for SL for the first time since WotLK

Venthyr really seems like the only logical choice for frost and blood, and with Icecap no longer a realistic choice in SL without Icy Citadel, BoS will be the only game in town with the crazy RP generation

Unholy really looks meh with the changes to outbreak and average legendaries. Maybe nightfae would be ok for unholy, but then you'd have to be a fairy, and that's a hard pass

[Saltysquidoon]

The DK soulbinds and conduits are not really that impactful and are rather boring. Much like how lacklustre the DK legendaries are. Leaning heavily towards dropping the class in favour of Warlock for SL for the first time since WotLK

I don't think the DK conduits are done yet given unholy has less than blood or frost. But yes as they stand they are terminally boring and low effort, much like the DK legiondaries legendaries

[Raisei]

I am still very unsure. I wanna strike a balance between useful abilities and a cool aethetic and story behind it.

Necrolords feel very fitting for a DK, and the Abomination Limb looks cool on paper, especially for Tanking. Depends a bit if the pull also has the Taunt function if you use it in Blood spec, much like Death Grip. The big shield from corpses also sounds like quite a nice thing to have.

Venthyr also have a nice theme and would work well considering Blood DKs literally drink the blood of their enemies. The ability is probably very strong especially for Frost, basically 8 seconds of free Breath if you are in a pack. The Door is probably not that useful for movement in combat with 1,5 sec cast.

Night Fae did not yet convince me, the ability looks cool, but the aesthetics are too druidic, I remain open minded here, maybe the story will convince me. The abilities looks great for Tanking since you can keep it up nearly 100% thanks to procs, but not sure how well that helps other specs.
The movement ability sounds good, but has a very long CD (1,5 min) with only 12 sec duration outside of rest areas. Still might be just the kick DKs needed. Long as they do not make another fight like Rastakhan where you have to run away every 20 seconds this should not be an issue.

Kyrian are my least favourite atm, but might change. The abilities tho are quite lame. Get an owl slave and get a single-target DoT with 1 min CD (even with the build in reduction, you won't get it down more then 20 seconds or so), I suppose using it on a boss in Combo with Breath might be decent, since you want to spend as many runes as possible anyway, so you get to have your spike even higher, but it feels a bit weak.

[msdos]

Kyrian because I plan on PVPing a lot in Shadowlands. All the strengths that the other covenants give in PVE are pretty meh in PVP. The teleport is good obviously, but everything else is just ehhh.

The self heal and debuff immunity are too huge in PVP. Also if the dot can't be dispelled, it's the best pick imo. I think the teleport would be top pick for a healer. As dps/tank I want good single target in raid and Torghast. Not picking Kyrian is kinda running the risk of getting out dpsed in raids, it's free single target dmg. Also if they nerf Venthyr.. Speaking of Torghast, the teleport is kinda meh in there and practically useless outdoors.

To me it's like a no brainer because I don't really plan on spamming M+.