The poor feed-back of some rogues in the alpha ...

[Fantazma]

Visit this page and tell me what you think about their feed-back:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/490696/45

As you can see on the OFFICIAL page of the alpha / beta we only have fully rogues conforming to the biggest problems of the rogue (mainly subtlety) and leading to devs problems that are not problems. There is rogue there even asking for some nerf saying that the skill is very OP. Jesus...
So ... I believe this is why we still have no news on improvements to the rogue ...! The feed back practically does not exist. At least not on the OFFICIAL page of the game ...

[taishar68]

Visit this page and tell me what you think about their feed-back:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/490696/45

As you can see on the OFFICIAL page of the alpha / beta we only have fully rogues conforming to the biggest problems of the rogue (mainly subtlety) and leading to devs problems that are not problems. There is rogue there even asking for some nerf saying that the skill is very OP. Jesus...
So ... I believe this is why we still have no news on improvements to the rogue ...! The feed back practically does not exist. At least not on the OFFICIAL page of the game ...

Good thing that’s not the only place they look, then

[Fantazma]

Good thing that’s not the only place they look, then

Well, we're talking about the OFFICIAL feed-back page. Pretty Sure is this page that Blizzard considers.

[taishar68]

Well, we're talking about the OFFICIAL feed-back page. Pretty Sure is this page that Blizzard considers.

One would think; but I know they look, to some extent, at the community as a whole, so we should at least hope, if not assume, some of what we say here trickles down to Irvine. They also know that the pool of alpha testers has been limited so far, and that has to be factored in as well.

[Naiattavain]

omg its really this bad i quit.

[taishar68]

I do not main a rogue, so the subtleties are lost on me; can you summarize why the feedback there is bad? I saw a decent amount of it, except a few posts about bugs. I'm not saying it isn't bad feedback, I really don't know.

[Fantazma]

I do not main a rogue, so the subtleties are lost on me; can you summarize why the feedback there is bad? I saw a decent amount of it, except a few posts about bugs. I'm not saying it isn't bad feedback, I really don't know.

When the concept of class fantasy arrived in Legion, all the glory of the Rogue Sub's gameplay was shattered. The mechanics have totally changed. We were a spec focused on: PVP, Burst Damage, CC Specialist.
Today we are the weakest spec of the rogues and the devs insist on only making us useful in raids using aoe damage (and forcing us to use shuriken storm, there are 2 stupid talents just for this ..).
They took us Premeditation, Gouge, Garrote and several iconic skills for the spec ....
..... and if you go to the rogues page on the official website you will see that 99% of complaints are saying what I say.
Many say that to fix the spec just give us the talents of the WOD back and everything is resolved.
HOWEVER on the Feedback page nobody (or almost anyone) is talking about it. They are all resigned to continuing to be a weaker spec than Assa and Outlaw and only asking for minor adjustments in skills.
The impression I have is that those rogues work at Blizzard. lol

[Tiwack]

When players don't feel heard they tend to eventually give up repeating themselves and just resign playing however blizz envisions them to play. There's just always 1 of 3 specs that feel left behind and with their rollercoaster philosophy it's a toss-up which one it'll be and how the redesigns end up turning out. Maybe a couple years down the road it'll return to the old design in a new coat of paint if players are patient and persistent. For now the devs clearly wish to take it down this new road exploring new niches.

[Powerogue]

All I can tell is I still see no sign of outlaw getting a second dps cooldown because seriously, Legion outlaw > BFA barebones "where the hell are my abilities?" outlaw. Most of what I see in covenants involve utility and mobility, which is all I have left.

Back to the monk again I guess.

[taishar68]

When the concept of class fantasy arrived in Legion, all the glory of the Rogue Sub's gameplay was shattered. The mechanics have totally changed. We were a spec focused on: PVP, Burst Damage, CC Specialist.
Today we are the weakest spec of the rogues and the devs insist on only making us useful in raids using aoe damage (and forcing us to use shuriken storm, there are 2 stupid talents just for this ..).
They took us Premeditation, Gouge, Garrote and several iconic skills for the spec ....
..... and if you go to the rogues page on the official website you will see that 99% of complaints are saying what I say.
Many say that to fix the spec just give us the talents of the WOD back and everything is resolved.
HOWEVER on the Feedback page nobody (or almost anyone) is talking about it. They are all resigned to continuing to be a weaker spec than Assa and Outlaw and only asking for minor adjustments in skills.
The impression I have is that those rogues work at Blizzard. lol

I see what you mean now, thanks. You know, it’s funny, I leveled my rogue as Sub back in Cata, and I had a good amount of fun with him, even dabbled in a raid here or there, but as playing time shrank over the last few years, I hadn’t played him much. My son mained a rogue and told me Sub was awful, and man, he was right. The BfA version was super clunky and definitely did not fit the fantasy aspect I had remembered.

Sad really; to me, Rogues were an iconic class in WoW...until DK’s, and Monks, and DH’s came along, chipping away at their place in the melee...well, pantheon seems too gaudy a word, but you get the idea. Well, for all the rogue mains out there, I hope Blizz starts giving you the love you deserve. And not just as a one trick pony in M+.

[Coldkil]

I don't thing it's poor feedback per se, but it's put in a worng/bad context. The guy basically complaind about Venthyr ability being weak - point is that a) no balance pass has been done whatsoever and b) we need to see what Blizzard's plans are for the class skills.

Right now the main issue we have it's that being pure DPS, we want the best performing one (to a degree, small differences are tolerable). Unfortunately, until they're balanced we won't know what to choose; plus, chances are that the covenant with the best ability it not the one you want for whatever reason (which really sucks since you're locked in it for the whole expansion).

Not counting the obvious balance passes through the expansion so what you choose now may end to be worse than another at a later date. You cannot even say "i want to try this and see how it goes".

Overall, tying the class skill to the covenant choice is just bad. They should be spearated. It's even worse for multi role classes since they may get a good one for a role but also the worst for another, basically gimping them if they want to cover more roles.

[Jackstraw]

Tying power advancement that should be inside talents to faction choices is plain dumb. At this point I'm even doubting they're going to scrap it all given how much work is apparently already went in making Covenants work.

[Coldkil]

Honestly, the whole new "borrowed power" concept is a bad idea. It's not bad per se - makes sense to have a compelling choice to make based on personal tastes and performance, like choosing what spec to play. The difference is that with the specs you can change them anytime with more or less no troubles, but with covenants you're locked the whole expansion.

Also, it makes so the team can "fix" the class issues by tuning something that's completely extraneous to the class itself. If my class doesn't do enough damage, the solution is not to buff the damage of a skill i'll use only here, because when i'm gonna lose it i'll be back at square one.

Classes should work by themselves in an "white room" scenario. That is the baseline we need, and then they can explore on other stuff. Balancing the borrowed powers becomes easier because they're not core of your class gameplay but just enhancements.

Sidenote: checked some beta footage and actually tried beta from a friend.
I kinda expected it, but actually Venthyr ability is the only one that both makes sense and it's broadly usable independently from the type of content you're doing (damage balancing excluded right now).
Close second is the Fae one: the cd reduction triggers only if the target dies, so it's kinda good in open world but it's still 30 seconds, you're practically using it only once every 2 or 3 mobs (not counting that now it's bugged and triggers vanish when you don't want it and resets encounters). On a raid boss, it's a vanish every 1.5 minutes which is meh - Sub has way higher uptime of FW now, Assa can throw an additional empowered Garrote. It's a damage CD, it works.
Necrolord's Bone Spike is reaaaaaaaally a chore. It should be off the GCD and have a small CD, it's really clunky to fit it in the rotation and only case where is was using it comfortably was Assa given the lower APM the spec has. With Sub and all the maintenance/plannign you're going to do, you don't want this to mess up your flow.
Kyrian....avoid like a plague. Until it becomes so OP. It's clunky, overcomplicated, and falling in the exact combo amount required to trigger it is just downright impossible some times. It just needs a redesign.

Again, numbers are not considered. I don't find an ability good if it's a mess to use consistently, and if it's required for it to be compelling to be super powerful, then we have a problem.

[Fantazma]

Sidenote: checked some beta footage and actually tried beta from a friend.
I kinda expected it, but actually Venthyr ability is the only one that both makes sense and it's broadly usable independently from the type of content you're doing (damage balancing excluded right now).
Close second is the Fae one: the cd reduction triggers only if the target dies, so it's kinda good in open world but it's still 30 seconds, you're practically using it only once every 2 or 3 mobs (not counting that now it's bugged and triggers vanish when you don't want it and resets encounters). On a raid boss, it's a vanish every 1.5 minutes which is meh - Sub has way higher uptime of FW now, Assa can throw an additional empowered Garrote. It's a damage CD, it works.
Necrolord's Bone Spike is reaaaaaaaally a chore. It should be off the GCD and have a small CD, it's really clunky to fit it in the rotation and only case where is was using it comfortably was Assa given the lower APM the spec has. With Sub and all the maintenance/plannign you're going to do, you don't want this to mess up your flow.
Kyrian....avoid like a plague. Until it becomes so OP. It's clunky, overcomplicated, and falling in the exact combo amount required to trigger it is just downright impossible some times. It just needs a redesign.

Again, numbers are not considered. I don't find an ability good if it's a mess to use consistently, and if it's required for it to be compelling to be super powerful, then we have a problem.

Frankly so far I am very disappointed with the lack of creativity of the current team of developers. My God ... go back a little bit in time and you will find skills that were extinguished just beautiful and very useful in any kind of scenario that we like to play.
I just didn't like any covenant skills so far.
I would trade everything that Blizzard intends to give Rogue in this expansion so that I get the Shadow Reflection ability back. Wonderful time when I killed one enemy while my shadow killed the other ...!

[fear]

Frankly so far I am very disappointed with the lack of creativity of the current team of developers. My God ... go back a little bit in time and you will find skills that were extinguished just beautiful and very useful in any kind of scenario that we like to play.
I just didn't like any covenant skills so far.
I would trade everything that Blizzard intends to give Rogue in this expansion so that I get the Shadow Reflection ability back. Wonderful time when I killed one enemy while my shadow killed the other ...!

They would have to remember that rogues exist first.

[fondue]

Good thing that’s not the only place they look, then

Yeah, they probably ignore feedback from a variety of sources.

[Polarthief]

I'm just annoyed that Rogues have the biggest "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" sign on the BETA (not even Alpha anymore). Our Legendaries and Conduits are still missing, we have missing talents, Shiv, a baseline ability, is still on the PvP talents ffs. We've got under 4 months before SL goes live, let alone 9.0, and soon it'll be way too late for them to bother adjusting anything. It's a mockery is what it is.

[glowpipe]

Working as intended! Rogues aren’t supposed to be noticed until it’s too late :P

my theory here is that every class died and ended up in shadowlands, but rogues popped cheat death and never came to the the shadowlands

[Gref]

I am seriously thinking about going for a rog as main but I have outlaws random play. but only outlaw has gouge...
I feel %50 rog when I play assassin in dungeons. gouge should be baseline ability ffs. (made myself a rogue and got to 600io for now)

also what covenant? pls help me! I have been playing a warrior for 16 years now. I want a change!

[Radazar]

I'm just annoyed that Rogues have the biggest "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" sign on the BETA (not even Alpha anymore). Our Legendaries and Conduits are still missing, we have missing talents, Shiv, a baseline ability, is still on the PvP talents ffs. We've got under 4 months before SL goes live, let alone 9.0, and soon it'll be way too late for them to bother adjusting anything. It's a mockery is what it is.

this happened in bfa and legion so its nothing new. we are gunna missing talents a week before prepatch and they are going to be super under or super over tuned. the first major rogue update won't be till the first week of the raid but by that point most of the rogue players will have stoped playing the class

- - - Updated - - -

I am seriously thinking about going for a rog as main but I have outlaws random play. but only outlaw has gouge...
I feel %50 rog when I play assassin in dungeons. gouge should be baseline ability ffs. (made myself a rogue and got to 600io for now)

also what covenant? pls help me! I have been playing a warrior for 16 years now. I want a change!

really its hard to say which one will be best for outlaw, the angles will prob be the best pick for most specs if hitting the charged combo point isn't a problem, a 7 combo point finisher will he strong.