SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Super Dickmann]

I thought Nathan was the one being bullied by the Farstriders?

Bob's obviously a bigot.

No surprises he dies, though a shame that it seems very one note. Nathanos will probably have a cameo in the Maw, but for the amount of screen time put into him it's still anticlimax. And the idea of Calia parading the undead night elves in front of Tyrande and turning her bland as well is cosmic horror at its finest. Everything she touches turns to crap.

[Alixie]

I thought Nathan was the one being bullied by the Farstriders?

What we know about his time with the Farstriders was mainly from his POV. He might have been an amazing archer, but its possible that him being an asshole and a bully was the real reason why the Farstriders aside from Sylvanas, were against him officially joining.

Nathanos chosing to live outside the city limits in spite of being officially sworn to defend Silvermoon, sending Horde soldiers to wipe out Helf outposts to retrieve documents on himself, specifically mentioning that he enjoyed ripping out the throats of High Elves while he was Scourge, taunting his nephew before killing him and stealing his body for a ritual, and his disrespect to the player (Champion of the Horde) because his super powerful girlfriend allows him to be, all points to Nathanos being a nasty person in life instead of a victim.

[Lahis]

So, a small rant: Can we stop having Valeera giving us quests as Horde players?

I don't understand why the hell she appeared to send us to the pre-patch quest. She got no business in ordering me around as Horde. Have Eitrigg be the quest giver for Horde, he makes more sense giving he still serves in Grommash Hold.

I don't get why Blizz wants to make her prominent Horde figure.

Her whole point is that as a Blood Elf, she can move DISCREETLY in Horde lands while being loyal friend to Wrynn dynasty and Stormwind.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean while bigotry sure is part of it, Sylvanas also abused her position to recruit a foreigner into a national military unit and place them in a position of command. That he is a human and thus much younger than many others of equal rank just adds insult to injury.

I'm taking the piss, but really, while Nathanos is a dick in undeath I don't see him having the ability to bully anyone in the rangers given his extreme minority status as it'd get him bodied. He did get promoted based on ability not just because Sylvanas decided to implement a simp-only affirmative action program.

Do you know how many ranger lords exist in this world? How many human ranger lords have ever existed?

Nathanos' accomplishments were unprecedented. He was a tactical genius, responsible for Alliance victories spanning a decade of conflict.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Order_Must...stored_(quest)

[bagina]

I'm taking the piss, but really, while Nathanos is a dick in undeath I don't see him having the ability to bully anyone in the rangers given his extreme minority status as it'd get him bodied. He did get promoted based on ability not just because Sylvanas decided to implement a boytoy-only affirmative action program.

Watch them retroactively make them worse than Hitler in life. Actually, Sylvanas was an evil cunt in life as well! And actually, she lost to Arthas on purpose, she'd wanted to become an undead all along and was happy to see her fellow elves die.

[Super Dickmann]

Oh I am not saying he did not have the ability or that he bullied anyone. Just that he was a foreigner from a loosely allied state that got recruited and given a commanding position in an elite military organization of a foreign nation. While not particularly enlightened, some animosity against him is more than natural.

Nah, I don't take any issue with the treatment he received from the elves. It's entirely in keeping with things and it's a shame that all similar prejudices or cautionary attitudes have steadily been removed from even ambiguous characters to be the province only of evil caricatures. The point I'm making is more that Nathanos was the one being targeted by the high elves rather than vice versa and that the idea of him bullying them is preposterous given the power dynamics involved. Hell, the only reason he hung out in his stead instead of in the city is so it wouldn't affect Sylvanas's approval rating and because he got tired of the elves in the city giving him shit.

@bagina

Dude got a decent showing in the book, but it was not to last. Sylvanas being the one to corrupt Sargeras is pending.

[Super Dickmann]

It's in keeping with Sylvanas not really being able to understand how anything affects people other than herself. Even when she was good, she was still a narcissist.

In the current version, sure. As initially written and more dubiously now, it was part of an outreach program because unlike Kael she was against isolation and wanted closer bonds with Lordaeron.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Thalas_Registry

For millennia we have isolated ourselves from outsiders. I will be the first among us to admit that mistakes were made in the past. Humans should never have been exposed to magic. I will not deny this but I will not condemn us to this guarded existance[sic] for the blunders of our predecessors. There is much that a coexistance[sic] between the Quel'dorei and other races of the world can bring. We must practice tolerance.

[Super Dickmann]

I still think it would have made far more sense for the Farstriders to train rangers for a Lordaeronian force (e.g. The Eastweald Rangers) and then have them return to serve there. Everyone serves in their own nation's military but they get to have joint experiences and when needed would be far easier to work together (especially for rangers since the most important part of their job is not archery, it's knowing the land). Sylvanas was not really thinking how her choice would affect Nathanos or the Farstriders. She knew what she wanted to do and she did and she got away with it because she was both prodigiously talented and gorgeous. I think that's the part that has always stayed unchanged about her even with the numerous schizophrenic retcons about her; she was always vain, skilled, driven and she could get away with anything. This is not necessarily something that makes you evil; throughout her life after all she made use of her skills for what she believed was the best for Quel'thalas and that included tolerance and stronger alliances. Heck I think it's sad she didn't give Kael a chance cause she would probably have been a vastly better Queen than he ever was a King.

Both the first and last part I agree on. At the time I think all this was a lot more vaguely delineated in lore, but in a setting where every kingdom is strictly divided by race, having a foreign national who still holds onto that nationality be promoted to what is effectively just below the leader of your armed forces is really dubious. Then again, I do think it was intended to be more than Nathanos, it's just that others either didn't get the cut or didn't have the ability required for the other parts of Quel'thalas to agree to keep them around, especially given the predominantly isolationist mood. This is purely speculation, but I think it checks out.

The funny thing regarding her and Kael is that they both were actually fairly outside looking, but the perspective is different. Kael went to Dalaran and was into Jaina to escape from a kingdom he felt he wasn't good enough for. Sylvanas wanted to deepen bonds and latched onto Nathanos in part because they contributed to Quel'thalas (and to her). Sylvanas had confidence in what she was doing and who she was that Kael really didn't which is why I don't think the two would have worked out. Her interest in Nathanos was at least in part because of his exceptional ability despite him being a human commoner, whereas Kael was unexceptional and could not assert himself even before Quel'thalas was destroyed despite being a prince. Now whether that means he'd be pussywhipped or sidelined or if she'd mold him into agreeing with her that I can't say. Would be an interesting AU though.

[Ardenaso]

Nathanos chosing to live outside the city limits in spite of being officially sworn to defend Silvermoon, sending Horde soldiers to wipe out Helf outposts to retrieve documents on himself, specifically mentioning that he enjoyed ripping out the throats of High Elves while he was Scourge, taunting his nephew before killing him and stealing his body for a ritual, and his disrespect to the player (Champion of the Horde) because his super powerful girlfriend allows him to be, all points to Nathanos being a nasty person in life instead of a victim.

I'm thinking that's actually his "columbine moment" after years of getting discriminated by the High Elves

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Watch them retroactively make them worse than Hitler in life. Actually, Sylvanas was an evil cunt in life as well! And actually, she lost to Arthas on purpose, she'd wanted to become an undead all along and was happy to see her fellow elves die.

I'm looking for that picture of a book page where Sylvanas sent her Farstriders towards Arthas instead of her quickly assassinating him but I can't find it here; I posted it before

edit: nvm it's gone URL expired

[Combatbutler]

Nah, I don't take any issue with the treatment he received from the elves. It's entirely in keeping with things and it's a shame that all similar prejudices or cautionary attitudes have steadily been removed from even ambiguous characters to be the province only of evil caricatures. The point I'm making is more that Nathanos was the one being targeted by the high elves rather than vice versa and that the idea of him bullying them is preposterous given the power dynamics involved. Hell, the only reason he hung out in his stead instead of in the city is so it wouldn't affect Sylvanas's approval rating and because he got tired of the elves in the city giving him shit.

Considering Nathanos personality in life, I am certain he was quite vindictive, once he had a higher rank than most of his former peers it was payback time and since Lor'themar is racist, he would see a human "bullying" his peers.

[Super Dickmann]

Considering Nathanos personality in life, I am certain he was quite vindictive, once he had a higher rank than most of his former peers it was payback time and since Lor'themar is racist, he would see a human "bullying" his peers.

Unless the rangers were absolute pussies I'm hard-pressed to believe that there wouldn't be pushback given how his presence was so tenuously suffered that he decided to live on a farmstead instead to avoid tanking Sylvanas's approval. I can totally believe he'd be a dick to Bob though, I think that's even canon that the two didn't get along at all.

[TheFirstOnes]

Wasn't sure if it had come up before, but it seems the Brokers in Maldraxxus have snagged themselves a Darkened Naaru they plan on using in the arena at the heart of the Maldaxxus zone:

10.0 really boutta be the Light and Shadow expansion, huh?

[Combatbutler]

Unless the rangers were absolute pussies I'm hard-pressed to believe that there wouldn't be pushback given how his presence was so tenuously suffered that he decided to live on a farmstead instead to avoid tanking Sylvanas's approval.

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

[Aucald]

10.0 really boutta be the Light and Shadow expansion, huh?

The odds are looking good I'd say - not a certainty yet, but a lot of signs pointing in that direction.

[Ardenaso]

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

come to think of it, if Nathanos survived he would definitely join Garithos' Enforcers and he would also take delight in executing the Blood Elves

[Aucald]

I've got to say I'm a bit impressed with just how much damage the Drust invasion of Ardenweald is doing. In BfA the Drust don't seem like a large threat in Kul Tiras - sure they make some in-roads and a general mess, but it gets mopped up pretty quickly and overall is a bit of a minor subplot. In the Ardenweald the Drust are just going to town on the Vorkai, Sylvar, and Faerie populations as they ransack their groves, hoard the zone's limited anima reserves in the wake of the Drought, and mass-possessing their populations and turning them into aberrations.

[Super Dickmann]

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

Yeah, I like that version, it'd fit all involved. I imagine he'd have left on his own accord since Sylvanas would not have kicked him out, per the Registry.

@Aucald

I'm glad they're getting more coverage, but I think that amounts to the Shadowlands being their home turf. They had to operate entirely through proxies back in Drustvar and on the basis of what's basically a personal vendetta that didn't advance their goals all that much.

[Skytotem]

I've got to say I'm a bit impressed with just how much damage the Drust invasion of Ardenweald is doing. In BfA the Drust don't seem like a large threat in Kul Tiras - sure they make some in-roads and a general mess, but it gets mopped up pretty quickly and overall is a bit of a minor subplot. In the Ardenweald the Drust are just going to town on the Vorkai, Sylvar, and Faerie populations as they ransack their groves, hoard the zone's limited anima reserves in the wake of the Drought, and mass-possessing their populations and turning them into aberrations.

That's good to hear, Drust have a cool aesthetic.

[Nerovar]

One thing that annoys the fuck out of me is why are there undead in afterlife? They're supposed to be dead, not undead. Body decomposition shouldn't be a thing there. The way the scourge looked on Azeroth made sense because they were corpses in various states of decay, monsters sewn together from various bodies etc. But now turns out they came from the skeleton dimension. It doesn't make fucking sense. Why is the scourge a thing in the afterlife? Why.

It doesn't make any sense especially when you consider recent quest texts that mention that you can take pretty much any form in the Shadowlands. Don't overthink it. The lore of this game is a human rights violation.

[Aucald]

That's good to hear, Drust have a cool aesthetic.

It was nice to see it again, especially the dark contrast with the rather bright and otherworldly aesthetic of the Night Fae. When I first saw the twisted "wicker" totems and the black hex-marks it was like a blast from the past.

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One thing that annoys the fuck out of me is why are there undead in afterlife? They're supposed to be dead, not undead. Body decomposition shouldn't be a thing there. The way the scourge looked on Azeroth made sense because they were corpses in various states of decay, monsters sewn together from various bodies etc. But now turns out they came from the skeleton dimension. It doesn't make fucking sense. Why is the scourge a thing in the afterlife? Why.

The Necrolords aren't undead or Scourge, to a point. They basically have the forms they generally did in life, but also retain the damage to the forms done via incessant warring and also seem to have something of a fetish for moribund or death-themed imagery. The Necrolord constructs are made from flesh and souls, however; and substance of some kind does indeed seem to exist in the Shadowlands just as it does in the physical universe.