Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[Teriz]

Then where is the new class in Shadowlands?

No point bringing a Necromancer class into WoW when you already have a Necromancer class in WoW.

[keldarepewpew]

Because 2 times a week someone posts a thread implying tinkerers are comming and they are the best possible class to add to the game. Everyone who is sceptical gets shot down we even have people still claiming tinkerer is comming in SL mechagon is all the hints we need.

As soon as SL is out we will have people making threads claiming tinkerers are GARANTEED to be in the next expac for x and y reasons. Litteraly every single week we get these shit threads thats why people are fed up with the tinkerer. i lreally liked the idea of tinkerer at first but all those threads have made me hope blizz never adds one.

[Fistfighter]

Easy answer.

People still for some reason think Warcraft is serious, grim high fantasy.
Tinkers are too childish and goofy for a game full of poop jokes and pop culture references.

We need another new hyper-edgy dark and brooding class, because we only got two of them recently.

Darkest Black Shadow Void and Suffering Ranger
or Deathly Dead Skeletons Necromancer
or straight up Reaper from OW


on a serious note, it would probably flop like Monk did, because at the end of the day, people are actually still stuck in their edgy 13y old era and they NEED the edgy classes to feel good about themselves playing a kid's video game.

[Teriz]

Wait, you think the reasons for not carrying staggering amounts of materials for class abilities is the direct result of a genius level intellect of a hypothetical tinker character instead of gameplay related?

In simply pointing out that that’s the difference between a profession and a class. In the case of a technology class versus a technology profession, the obvious dividing line in skill is that the Tinker is developing more complex and efficient devices than a profession “engineer”.

Where is that aforementioned Drain Life spell in Diablo? Its not in any of the games.

Under runes;
https://diablo.gamepedia.com/Siphon_Blood

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And, that is still a skill...

A hero is a skill?

Uh, okay.

[keldarepewpew]

Easy answer.

People still for some reason think Warcraft is serious, grim high fantasy.
Tinkers are too childish and goofy for a game full of poop jokes and pop culture references.

We need another new hyper-edgy dark and brooding class, because we only got two of them recently.

Darkest Black Shadow Void and Suffering Ranger
or Deathly Dead Skeletons Necromancer
or straight up Reaper from OW


on a serious note, it would probably flop like Monk did, because at the end of the day, people are actually still stuck in their edgy 13y old era and they NEED the edgy classes to feel good about themselves playing a kid's video game.

BULLSHIT its the relentless non stop tinkerer spam/whine that is turning everyone off.

[iosdeveloper]

Tinker class has to be introduced during children expansion a la "gnomes and goblins", that's gonna be worse than Mists of Pandaria
Personally I won't collect carrots and kill rabbits once more.

[Malix Farwin]

Current classes fit a lot of niches and i think personally that Tinker(while ill proly wont play it) does fit a missing niche so would be a welcome addiction in my eyes. A lot of answers as to why ppl dont want it sound more selfish then anything else really.

[Velerios]

Then where is the new class in Shadowlands?

A very good question, where is it. The issue is that blizzard in their endless wisdom of pruning and ruining classes so much because of some cryers crying that we had so many buttons in MoP, destroyed all classes in Legion so much that in BfA there was nearly nothing left. And adding new classes and adding so many abilities back to classes seems to much work.

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Reality tells a much different story, and I think the era of new classes is pretty much gone on the wayside. Its still very possible, but I think class skins and repeating more of the same while supporting with fresh Talents or Covenant-like systems are the way they will address classes and specs in the future, not simply add more classes or specs.

That's something i pretty much doubt. Convenants is a nice addition to the game, and having some semi-permanent decisions is good (as long as they don't change it midway and totally screw everyone who chosen convenant x), but i doubt that this will be the way to go. New Classes are simply something that totally changes the way the game plays, and blizzard see it by the numbers that nothing adds so much replayability than a new class. What might happen is that we will not see full classes anymore, sadly they will probably behave more like demon hunters, BUT: i really hope that they will add more abilities that can be actively used, some utility and something simply fun.

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No point bringing a Necromancer class into WoW when you already have a Necromancer class in WoW.

No point bringing a Tinker class into wow when you already have a profession for it in WoW.

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No point bringing a Necromancer class into WoW when you already have a Necromancer class in WoW.

No point bringing a Tinker class into wow when you already have a profession for it in WoW. Sorry, but this is a silly reply on a silly reply.

[iosdeveloper]

imo we need allied classes at this point
DH is a great example - new class delivering on a very specific fantasy, 2 specs, very few abilities, lots of cool perks

[Velerios]

on a serious note, it would probably flop like Monk did, because at the end of the day, people are actually still stuck in their edgy 13y old era and they NEED the edgy classes to feel good about themselves playing a kid's video game.

I love to play a monk, but i think that it's probably the heavily asiatic-tie to monk in wow.

[Teriz]

No point bringing a Tinker class into wow when you already have a profession for it in WoW. Sorry, but this is a silly reply on a silly reply.

Your reply is quite silly since you seemingly don’t know the difference between classes and professions.

[Velerios]

Your reply is quite silly since you seemingly don’t know the difference between classes and professions.

So and where is the necromancer-class you say that's already in the game: oh yes, it doesn't exist. So jep, my answer is silly as was yours. But let's come back to topic: for me the hatred for tinkerer is here simply because of things like tinkerer fanatics that can't have any other oppinion other than theirs. For me this class is silly, the concept is silly, we already have an profession for it that in my eyes is totally underutilized and yes, i personally would love to have engineering back both in PvP as too as an viable tool to use in raiding and mythic+ too (as other professions). But not as a class. Necromancer is here my favorite; especially since the last 3 classes are purely melee-based, but i could also accept many other classes); but having an expansion based around tinkerer and engineering: no thanks. And yes, a new class should have ties to a new expansion, period.

[TheRevenantHero]

You cant speak from majority.
And by your logic -all melee classes are the same because they just swing their weapons. What different between warrior or Outlaw rogue?
Tinkers can use rockets and lasers and grenades - its not deleting engineer proffesion, same as mage conjure food dont delete cooking.

There has been polls and threads on these forums and the official WoW forums. So I absolutely can speak from majority since it's what the majority of players have said on the forums. And nice straw man. There are BIG differences between rogue and warrior. There really isn't much difference between Tinker and engineer. The only difference is Tinker would have shorter cooldowns and they'd have spells rather than consumable items. The general principle would be the same. Tinkers and Engineers are the same thing in lore and also the same thing for the most part when it comes to mechanics.

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One of them were, but I digress...




Tinkers would be able to create devices and machines without a schematic or materials. Translated into gameplay that would be Tinkers having abilities versus items.



LoL! Why do you think Shadowlands fits the theme of Death Knights but not a Necromancer? Think about it.

No. I never linked fireworks because that would be stupid. I linked various utility and damaging items and you disregarded it by saying they had a long cooldown and tinker would NOT have long cooldowns. If that's the only difference then Tinker really shouldn't be a class.

That is 100% your headcanon. There is absolutely nothing stating in the lore that Tinkers would make everything without schematics. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to say that the majority of Tinker NPCs are just following schematics. Many goblins followed Blackfuse's schematics rather than invent their own stuff. So by your logic, those NPCs aren't Tinkers.

Irrelevant. you made a claim and I looked at the link you provided. That very article proved you were blatantly wrong about DK being the only death based class they would want. So you were either being incredibly dishonest or just didn't bother to read the article and just took the misquoted excerpt in that forum post as gospel.

[Teriz]

So and where is the necromancer-class you say that's already in the game: oh yes, it doesn't exist.

That would be the Death Knight class, since it can do anything a Necromancer can do. Conversely, the profession can NOT do anything a Tinker could do.

[DatToffer]

I really don't understand a community that hates variety so much. A technical based class with steampunk vibes is usually a staple in many fantasy games and its a clear missing component in WoW despite the myriad of technologies the world offers. Yet anytime someone suggests a desire for the class or even comes up with creative ways to implement it half the community it seems nearly has a stroke with the amount of rage they bring.

I think now you're starting to get it.

[Velerios]

That would be the Death Knight class, since it can do anything a Necromancer can do. Conversely, the profession can NOT do anything a Tinker could do.

And death knights are no necromancer, no matter how you want to turn it around (and that's not an oppionion, that's fact): If you would even read what a necromancer can do and what not, then we wouldn't have this discussion. Please: just because death knights can raise death they are no fricking necromancer. In WC3 Death Knights existed too and still weren't necromancer. And necromancer existed and were still no death knights.

So how often you want repeat this over and over and over and over and over again?

Naturally engineers are no tinker, but in reality we never had something like tinkers in the game: they were engineers, profound in their profession, but not tinkers.

[Teriz]

There has been polls and threads on these forums and the official WoW forums. So I absolutely can speak from majority since it's what the majority of players have said on the forums. And nice straw man. There are BIG differences between rogue and warrior. There really isn't much difference between Tinker and engineer. The only difference is Tinker would have shorter cooldowns and they'd have spells rather than consumable items. The general principle would be the same. Tinkers and Engineers are the same thing in lore and also the same thing for the most part when it comes to mechanics.

What polls? Tinkers have been the preferred class in every poll I’ve seen on here.

No. I never linked fireworks because that would be stupid.

Yes, pretending that profession items are the same as class abilities is quite stupid....

That is 100% your headcanon. There is absolutely nothing stating in the lore that Tinkers would make everything without schematics. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to say that the majority of Tinker NPCs are just following schematics. Many goblins followed Blackfuse's schematics rather than invent their own stuff. So by your logic, those NPCs aren't Tinkers.

Obviously a Tinker is going to be a superior engineer than some Warrior or Rogue dabbling in making toys and goggles. It stands to reason that they wouldn’t be using schematics.

Irrelevant. you made a claim and I looked at the link you provided. That very article proved you were blatantly wrong about DK being the only death based class they would want. So you were either being incredibly dishonest or just didn't bother to read the article and just took the misquoted excerpt in that forum post as gospel.

Uh, the article said that there is no new class, and the theme of the expansion fits the existing DK class. I’ve seen other interviews where they say that no new class fits the theme of Shadowlands.

Even a blind man can see the message behind that.

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And death knights are no necromancer, no matter how you want to turn it around (and that's not an oppionion, that's fact): If you would even read what a necromancer can do and what not, then we wouldn't have this discussion. Please: just because death knights can raise death they are no fricking necromancer. In WC3 Death Knights existed too and still weren't necromancer. And necromancer existed and were still no death knights.

Well let’s see what Necromancers can do;

Necromancers are practitioners of necromancy (also called the dark arts[2][3] or the black arts)[4] the study and use of magic to raise and control the dead.[5] Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed.[6]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necromancer

Death Knights can do all of this.

Naturally engineers are no tinker, but in reality we never had something like tinkers in the game: they were engineers, profound in their profession, but not tinkers.

We had Tinkers in WC3, and WoW is a sequel to WC3, so they’re in the lore, and they’re referenced in WoW. So just because we haven’t seen them in WoW yet, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

No different than Pandaren based Monks before MoP.

[kaminaris]

And death knights are no necromancer, no matter how you want to turn it around (and that's not an oppionion, that's fact): If you would even read what a necromancer can do and what not, then we wouldn't have this discussion. Please: just because death knights can raise death they are no fricking necromancer. In WC3 Death Knights existed too and still weren't necromancer. And necromancer existed and were still no death knights.

So how often you want repeat this over and over and over and over and over again?

Naturally engineers are no tinker, but in reality we never had something like tinkers in the game: they were engineers, profound in their profession, but not tinkers.

Death knights are necromancers:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/w...ere-considered

We were talking for a while about a Necromancer. He would kind of be a range caster, do a lot of corpse explode, that sort of thing. Things we ended up incorporating into the Death Knight.

So unfortunately you are wrong and that is a fact. If blizzard says death knights are necromancers then it's a fact within this game.

[Kyriani]

I don't think the Necromancer fantasy is fulfilled by Death Knights. Death Knights are melee combatants. Necromancers are ranged spellcasters. The two might share thematics but Necromancers don't have to take things away from Death Knights to be viable imo.

Personally if I were to make a Necromancer class, it would be a cloth wearer with three specs:

Hemomancy, blood magic similar to that used by the Blood trolls. Ranged DPS role focusing on dealing damage through direct damage spells. This is very different from the powers used by Blood spec Death Knights and fulfills an entirely different role.

Reanimation, the traditional Necromancer's "animate the dead" spec. Ranged DPS role focusing on dealing damage through a combination of direct damage spells and pets. The way I imagined this spec is as having one of three animated undead pets out depending on the need of the moment. A melee focused tanking pet with taunt, a ranged focused dps pet with snare ability, and a melee focused dps pet with interrupt. Ranged dps abilities would be mostly bone themed, like hurling bone spikes as a single target nuke.

Spiritualism, a Healing Role that uses a variety of different skills to sustain allies. This would be a more "spectral" themed caster. Using spirit magic to heal, res, buff, and deal damage.

This is just a basic idea and yes each spec does have similar stuff from other classes but as a whole I think this concept provides a unique overall class experience. It's only a pet class as Reanimation Spec and its not super "summon a bunch of dudes" the way Demonology is today. It's a more "mage-like" class as Hemomancy spec since its a petless ranged nuker. And finally unlike mages or warlocks, it has a healing spec. Maybe no one else would, but I'd totally play something like this, and I'd certainly prefer this over a Tinker.

[Teriz]

I don't think the Necromancer fantasy is fulfilled by Death Knights. Death Knights are melee combatants. Necromancers are ranged spellcasters. The two might share thematics but Necromancers don't have to take things away from Death Knights to be viable imo.

The problem is that Blizzard has created melee based Necromancers in other games, so they don’t view spell-casting vs melee as a valid distinction.