WoW devs picked the brains of Diablo 3 devs about rifts to design Torghast

[huth]

Post #33 before the first player reacts to what was posted.

No, that was post #8. Besides, you didn't even have to watch the video for it, they said that in an interview weeks ago.

[Phaqfu]

Definitely not buying SL.

I am sure 100% that you'll be playing Shadowlands, see you then.

[SirBeef]

Well, goodbye then.

Oh he'll buy it. He needs something else to complain about in between getting banned for pushing his civil war conspiracies in Politics.

[Ragedaug]

No, that was post #8. Besides, you didn't even have to watch the video for it, they said that in an interview weeks ago.

Post #8 doesn't react to the video. Post #8 is reacting to the OP, who posted comments that conflicted with the video. The comments of the OP and post #8 assume WoW devs are using D3 devs' advice, when IF you watch the video, the WoW devs talked to the D3 devs, heard how they do it, and said, "no thanks".

Then we have this thread where 90+% of the reactions for and against D3 are reacting as if the WoW devs will be taking the D3 devs' advice, when the video clearly says they are not.

[Heladys]

Definitely not buying SL.

Thank you for the important update.

[Heeresman]

Its just your opinion, we are nor interested on it. For me personal - i liked rifts and grifts.

You have won! Your prize has been mailed to you after entering the Dumbest post of the week contest.


"your opinion" "we are nor interested on it" "For me personal" "i liked"



Have a great day.

[huth]

Post #8 doesn't react to the video. Post #8 is reacting to the OP, who posted comments that conflicted with the video. The comments of the OP and post #8 assume WoW devs are using D3 devs' advice, when IF you watch the video, the WoW devs talked to the D3 devs, heard how they do it, and said, "no thanks".

Then we have this thread where 90+% of the reactions for and against D3 are reacting as if the WoW devs will be taking the D3 devs' advice, when the video clearly says they are not.

But they did get advice from the D3 devs and are using it. That advice boils down to "don't bother, not worth it", but that's still advice and may well have saved them quite some time and resources they'd otherwise have wasted on a non-viable path.

Besides, the big mistake here is that they never talked about gameplay, but about generating the levels.

[Vakir]

GRifts and Rifts aren't the problem with Diablo 3, though, it's the way itemization and reward systems work. Items are generally rendered unimportant by the overimportance of set items, which means there's way less builds than prior games and way less customization freedom, as those same set bonuses are absurd compared to normal legendary affixes. Like, tens of thousands of percent of damage absurd.

When the primary reward system of Rifts/GRifts is purely to just hope for Primals/Ancient versions of gear you can easily get, upgrade your gems, and convert gems to get base stats, of course it's not going to be enjoyable. There is essentially no change in character options at an early point beyond slow, linear curves of your primary stats.

Torghast at least has roguelike elements of each run being different, impermanence of some of the crazy combinations you can get, and has a long-tail on slowly crafting or upgrading legendaries that don't hinder essentially every god damn slot you have on your character.

But even without that, Rifts were taking the gameplay of D1 and 2 and giving at least some random variety of the environments and mobs. Mods aside, that aspect is still a step up from endless Diablo/Baal runs.

[Bigbazz]

GRifts and Rifts aren't the problem with Diablo 3, though, it's the way itemization and reward systems work. Items are generally rendered unimportant by the overimportance of set items, which means there's way less builds than prior games and way less customization freedom, as those same set bonuses are absurd compared to normal legendary affixes. Like, tens of thousands of percent of damage absurd..

Diablo does have a lot of build diversity, while set bonuses do dominate there are a lot of set bonuses to work with and they can be often combined together with other sets and legendaries in so many ways. They have also had some attempts at encouraging pure legendary based builds, one of them using the Wailing Host/Litany ring set (still a set) and the other newer one using the Legacy of Dreams gem.

There are several Legacy of Dreams builds right now that are not only workable but are among the best and strongest, so it's very effective. To use barbarian as an example, even though only a couple of builds can complete the highest greatest rift levels (most notably Whirlrend Wastes and to a lesser extent Savage Frenzy), if you go slightly below that you can play builds based on all of the sets or legacy of dreams and be very successful, and the list of builds and playstyles that can comfortably farm Torment 16 or time a sub 120 GR's is long, and most people never clear a 120 solo to begin with.

The only reason Diablo 3 appears to lack build diversity is because people view it based on what builds are the absolute strongest at the highest Rift levels, and Blizzard doesn't attempt to closely balance that, they just allow a new flavour to pull ahead with new seasons and players gravitate to it. If Diablo 2 had Greater Rifts the list of competitive builds would be a lot shorter than Diablo 3, the closest thing you can use is to see how many builds can do Ubers... The list is short and requires gear that'd be impossible to farm legitamately.

[Vakir]

The only reason Diablo 3 appears to lack build diversity is because people view it based on what builds are the absolute strongest at the highest Rift levels, and Blizzard doesn't attempt to closely balance that, they just allow a new flavour to pull ahead with new seasons and players gravitate to it. If Diablo 2 had Greater Rifts the list of competitive builds would be a lot shorter than Diablo 3, the closest thing you can use is to see how many builds can do Ubers... The list is short and requires gear that'd be impossible to farm legitamately.

To an extent, since min-maxing is always a problem (and is a similar problem with talent, gear, and soon Covenant selection in WoW), but even Blizzard has directly acknowledged the set bonus as an extension of the issue that already exists and it's why they're significantly scaling them back in D4.

The set bonuses can be combined with other items, and are, but just like their reasoning for removing Tier sets, it does limit certain item combinations just by virtue of having less items open on your character to swap around.

You'd still have BIS builds and tier lists for different activities and whatnot, but you'd have a higher variance of items to play around with if you aren't following that if you had a few more slots to fuck around with.

That being said - regarding the topic, I think the overall conclusion remains the same, GRifts and Rifts aren't really why D3 burns out quickly between seasons, and Torghast is hard to compare even ignoring that the devs said they went in another direction with generating them.

[Thenatural]

This thread is weird. A lot of the anti-WoW people are talking about Torghast like we haven't already had the chance to play it. Like, we know it's not rifts, what even is this thread?