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  1. #1

    Holy Paladin Shadowlands

    How is Holy paladin looking for Shadowlands for people who tried it in beta?

    Holy power is back. Crusader strike costs more mana. Glimmer of Light is a talent in the final row replacing Divine purpose which is moved to current level 75 row competing with Holy Avenger and Seraphim. Mastery unchanged.
    Last edited by apelsinjuice; 2020-07-26 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Tbh I will still be playing holy but im not a big fan of holy power I hate it never liked it glad they removed it but kinda bummed its back. Playing around wit covenants looks like night fae or the bastion will be the best just seem a lot better than the other 2 options. Talent wise looks like we still will be melee healers but possibly running Avenging crusader with glimmer and either devine purp or holy avenger if u can utilise ur holy power well since it triples generation.everything else seems pretty standard to how we play currently just glimmer will feel shitter since its not like have 3 stacks of it as azerite power. Guess we wait till prepatch and see how they play then

  3. #3
    Its a struggle to play, low throughput, high manacosts and unimpactful and senselessly long cooldowns. Glimmer as a core part of your playstyle is dead, the heal it does it negligible and even if they buffed it by 100% holy shock(even with cds) is super slow. The whole focus of the spec is to build up holy power and use it to either AoE heal or single target heal, which couldn't be more boring to play.

    As it stands right now paladin won't be competitive in mythic+ or raids. However there's still time to fix things.

  4. #4
    Most streamers/testers say it feels really bad... clunky and low throughput with weaker Cooldowns.... but then there’s that “diamond in the rough” who say how much they love HP being back, and how great it feels not being forced to play Glimmer, citing certain combos with Lego’s and Conduits.

    Personally, I won’t be playing Holy. I’ve never enjoyed Holy Power (or any secondary resource as a healer) so that’s killed the spec for me. Even without HP, the overwhelming feedback I’m hearing from Beta is not good.

    I got Beta access myself a week ago, but right now I’m testing other healers.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans
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    Glimmer build got too much focus in terms of synergy with Conduits, Soulbinds and Legendaries. I hate it. Glimmer is fine playstyle but it never was the thing that made most players fall in love with Holy Paladin from begin with. There should be strong alternatives to it in terms of synergies, but there are none.

    Though i liked BoV M+ potential. BoV+WoG+HS+WOG combo gives an insane AOE heal burst and feels good to press. Shame none of Covenants and Soulbinds actually amplify it, like Divine Toll+Shock Barrier legendary+Kleia soulbind amplifies Glimmer build.

  6. #6
    Actually after clearing nhc and topping the meters on every fight on the beta - it feels nearly exactly the same as it does on live. Or more like it feels like it was in Eternal Palace. No 200% IT and shotgun HS, but never really liked that anyway.

    Anyone saying glimmer is not viable or holy power this or that, has no idea. I mean just look at this thread. People say alternately glimmer is dead followed by glimmer is the only viable option.
    The spec plays like live just with low haste. You HS on CD, spam CS, hope for IoL procs, filler with holypower Spenders or HL/FoL. Mana is more of an issue, but as long as you don't spam FoL/HL you will be perfectly fine. If you spam Chain Heal on a shaman for a minute you are oom, too.

    I hated the idea of hpower for hpalas as well, but it's really no issue. Obviously we are no longer 20%+ stronger than any other healer, but that was to be expected.

    I'll do another nhc clear without glimmer and crusader's might but with beacon and hammer to see how that feels.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Actually after clearing nhc and topping the meters on every fight on the beta - it feels nearly exactly the same as it does on live. Or more like it feels like it was in Eternal Palace. No 200% IT and shotgun HS, but never really liked that anyway.

    Anyone saying glimmer is not viable or holy power this or that, has no idea. I mean just look at this thread. People say alternately glimmer is dead followed by glimmer is the only viable option.
    The spec plays like live just with low haste. You HS on CD, spam CS, hope for IoL procs, filler with holypower Spenders or HL/FoL. Mana is more of an issue, but as long as you don't spam FoL/HL you will be perfectly fine. If you spam Chain Heal on a shaman for a minute you are oom, too.

    I hated the idea of hpower for hpalas as well, but it's really no issue. Obviously we are no longer 20%+ stronger than any other healer, but that was to be expected.

    I'll do another nhc clear without glimmer and crusader's might but with beacon and hammer to see how that feels.
    The problem is more the fact that it is a boring playstyle, i would even say flash of light spam and mana conservation in classic is more fun. It is also a new expansion with once again almost no changes in playstyle.
    Last edited by Thundering; 2020-08-21 at 07:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans
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    I have so much problems with Covenants and Holy Paladin's on beta.

    1) The only viable option right now is Glimmer. Not because its powerfull. Its not THAT powerfull. BUT! Most of the tools Blizzard introduced synergies well purely with Glimmer build and none other. Only Glimmer build got profile Legendary, profile Covenant ability and Conduits. Talents also favors Glimmer the most. More over, the Crusader's Might, which is the foundation of Glimmer build and basically mandatory for any paladin, works the best with Holy Power system.

    And that is the problem - the lack of love for other builds. While i get many people loved Glimmer, for many others thats NOT the reason why the played HP for decade. Many people loved big FoL numbers. Many people loved to spam big and frequent LoD heals (Legion). Many people loved to use BoF and BoV.

    I want to see talents being changed to give more love for Beacon of Faith and Beacon of Virtue builds. I want some Legendaries that favors them. I want some of the Covenants abilities synergies better with it, as well as Conduits.

    2) Paladin is the class with one of the worst sets of Covenant abilities. While some classes has 3-4 great abilities for all three specs, the only fun and feel good to use ability is Prot Paladin's Divine Toll. Thats it.

    Holy Paladin's Divine Toll, again, is pretty good. BUT! There is serious problem with smart heal for it. Very often, if the party has pets, Divine Toll heals them. Which is dumb. Its also worth of mention, that Divine Toll is only actually good with Glimmer Build. For any other build its just Holy Power 1min CD build up and 1min CD moderate AOE ability.

    Holy Paladin's Ashen Hallow plainly sucks. Its weird, its clunky, its not powerfull enough. If it was Concecration that heals and damages everyone in a radius with 1min CD, it would be worth taking. ST damage and heal with 4min CD is ridiculous and not worthy alternative.

    Vanquishing Hammer is half-baked and undertuned ability. It should have generate 1 HP and not require it. It also looks and feels weak af. Animation is bad. Damage is bad.

    Blessing of Seasons. Here we go. Plainly - concept is neat, but(!) impossible to be adapted gameplay-wise. Its in the very concept.
    Feeling of combat fluidity is very important for a player in WoW. This is very important to feel satisfaction when you press buttons and feel the flow of spell rotation. Without it you wouldnt want to play the spec or class.

    Blessing of Seasons ruins the flow and fluidity for EVERY Paladin Spec.
    It DOESNT feel good to constantly keep in mind 4 additional buffs that you HAVE to put in your healing rotation every 30 (!!!!) seconds.
    It doesnt feel good to be constantly distracted from enjoying the healing with the need to check out who is better for which buff in what moment of time every 30 seconds.
    It simply destroys the fluidity of fight.
    I hate BoS. Its implementation is trash.

    Same for Retribution paladins.
    Its fun to use AW and destroy enemies with a couple abilities while you have it, enjoying the feeling of pressing the button and seeing numbers and enemie's HP melting.
    Its NOT fun to use AW and then synergies it with Autumn, constantly distracting myself and destroying the rotation with Badge of Mad Paragon's legendary Hammer of Wrath spam. You are not focusing on result but on how to succesfully prolongate AW. This is bad idea.


    3) Solutions are very simple.

    a) Judgement should(!) generate 1 HP
    b) Bestow Faith and Light's Hammer should reduce Holy Shock CD just like Crusader's Might and/or also generate 1HP. That would allow to generate HP during non-melee phases and make those two dead talents alive.
    c) Replace Awakening with something useful.
    d) Buff LoD cause its not worth using on anything below 5 targets.
    e) Reverse IoL changes. They suck.
    f) Buff Holy Prism. Its weak.
    g) Divine Toll should smart heal only players.
    h) Ashen Hallow replacing Conceration with AOE Heal+DPS effect (like DK's got their AoE replace with Night Fae ability), with reduced CD and radius.
    i) Blessing of Season either replaced with something more handy and nice to use, or turned into four 1hour buffs you can put on teammates like Beacon of Light. Tune it down to not make it OP.
    j) Vanquisher's Hammer should generate 1HP.


    Sadly, im not from US region and cant post on US forums, so if someone of fellow Holy Paladins will like my feedback, feel free to copypaste it into Paladin's Beta Feedback thread.

  9. #9
    I don't like the infusion of light change, I don't know why they made the change, I don't get it. I would love for a dev to explain the reasoning. Fast cast holy lights is our bread and butter, and when we lose the corruptions and azerites, I think it's gonna feel terrible not having that anymore. Especially since Shaman's riptide into healing wave didn't get the same change/nerf.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Royals Ego View Post
    I don't like the infusion of light change, I don't know why they made the change, I don't get it. I would love for a dev to explain the reasoning. Fast cast holy lights is our bread and butter, and when we lose the corruptions and azerites, I think it's gonna feel terrible not having that anymore. Especially since Shaman's riptide into healing wave didn't get the same change/nerf.
    This was a good change for pvp. Maybe hpals will actually use mana now.

    For pve the old infusion of light was arguably bad too. People used FoL with infusion 100% of the time. They changed it to create some to choice I'm guessing.
    change can't wait.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    This was a good change for pvp. Maybe hpals will actually use mana now.

    For pve the old infusion of light was arguably bad too. People used FoL with infusion 100% of the time. They changed it to create some to choice I'm guessing.
    FoL with infusion was because the current glimmer build, when played properly, doesn't consume mana. So you can use a stronger heal since they're both the same cast time.

    That playstyle is always guaranteed to change back to the default of going HL for the majority because mana starts to matter much more at the start of an expac again. But the slow cast is a major turnoff for sure. It still keeps throwing me off as I'm not used to standing still for so long.

    Hpala is weird, I'm currently trying some crazy combos where I've taken all the active abilities in the talent tree and see how it goes/feels.

    I don't have any defining thoughts yet, nor an actual idea what's the idealized/optimized choice. It seems that going the default route with glimmer is looking like the way to go, with Holy Avenger?

  12. #12
    logs from raid testing show holy paladins averaging at the bottom (or near it) on every fight, with a much lower maximum throughput as welll. Crazy lower than other classes on AoE heavy fights.
    Last edited by BananaHandsB; 2020-09-08 at 10:19 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHandsB View Post
    logs from raid testing show holy paladins averaging at the bottom (or near it) on every fight, with a much lower maximum throughput as welll. Crazy lower than other classes on AoE heavy fights.

    After also observing SL beta at 60 with decent pre-gear from all aspects of the game It is going to be as it's always been Hpal will be average-low healer in the FIRST 1 or 2 seasons of the expansion and will get better and better after scaling when numbers, stats go higher up.

    As much as I would like to continue maining Hpal for all content of the WoW such as PvP, PVE raids and for extra some m+ I am really considering of going Disc Priest or Rdruid instead, not only that Shadow will be a solid offspec in SL after revamp.

    Disc and Druids are known to excel on early expansions, While mid-late expansions Hpal is becoming a lot more viable. I do see at least 1 Hpal will be brought into the raid simply cause of the toolkit. Most likely 2 Disc, 1 HPal 1 RShaman.


    PS : If they would re-vamp back the old infusion of light proc on Holy Light, I'd go back instantly. As it stands for now and for what I have tested, the spec simply feels a little clunky to play. As you already need to deal with so many aspects of the game as Hpal, you do need a smooth spec.
    Last edited by RealAwoken; 2020-09-15 at 08:09 AM.

  14. #14
    I REALLY hate having to melee as a healer. I miss censure/exrocism holy paladins spam

  15. #15
    All that i have been seeing on YouTube from beta points towards Holy having a hard time
    But it still looks viable in dungeons and raids at the beginning of the expansion so that's good, but given some of the changes to the spec -- like the nerf to Infusion of Light -- and how Holy Shock + Glimmer of Light talent dont do much healing anymore, I dont know if I want to continue playing a paladin in SL

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    All that i have been seeing on YouTube from beta points towards Holy having a hard time
    But it still looks viable in dungeons and raids at the beginning of the expansion so that's good, but given some of the changes to the spec -- like the nerf to Infusion of Light -- and how Holy Shock + Glimmer of Light talent dont do much healing anymore, I dont know if I want to continue playing a paladin in SL
    Personally, I think Holy is going to be fine in and of itself. Glimmer builds may not be as strong perhaps, but I'd expect more bursty orentated builds using Beacon of Virtue to still be just as good as ever for M+, especially when you've also got access to Seraphim now too. When you consider that direct FoL and Holy Light on targets with Beacon is also going to give 1 Holy Power and our healing scaling seems to have been improved across the board it may well be a solid alternative.

    Which is a good thing, imo. Glimmer was a little bit too strong and over shadowed other playstyles. Partly that was due to the trait being strong, partly down to strong talent synergies and partly down to absurd levels of Haste you could stack. It being toned down on all fronts will give other builds the chance to shine too.

    When you throw in Hammer of Wrath and Shield of the Righteous, it looks strongly as though Holy Paladins might be the most offensively capable of the healers too. Being able to do just enough healing while also contributing solid DPS would make Holy a good choice for pushing M+ keys.

    That doesn't measure how we're going to stack up against other healers of course. But on the face of it, it appears as though there are more viable situational talents and builds going into Shadowlands. That extra diversity means we may be able to get highly specialised builds for each type of content, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach with Glimmer.

    Where I think we're going to lose ground is when it comes to Covenant abilities. The Kyrian ability is solid if you're running a Glimmer Build, but the rest look to be questionable at best for Holy. The Venthyr one looks alright for fights where there's constant pulsing damage but the 4 min cooldown is off putting and it's very specific in it's best case usage. The Necrolord and Night Fae look rather meh as a healer.

    Anyway, that's just my view on the matter. I could well be completely wrong, but for now I'm cautiously optimistic that Holy will be a good enough healing spec.

  17. #17
    ill play holy in shadowland i hope to dont do a bad choice

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by apollo9001 View Post
    ill play holy in shadowland i hope to dont do a bad choice
    Play what makes you happy, the class that you find fun and specs that appeal to you. Good luck in Shadowlands.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by apollo9001 View Post
    ill play holy in shadowland i hope to dont do a bad choice
    There really isn't a "bad" choice if you're not going for mythic raiding or gladiator, you will be able to clear 99% of content even with an "unviable" spec

  20. #20
    classic is better.

    Please try to stay on topic when posting. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2020-10-20 at 07:18 PM.

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