An early look at them great vault, i.e. the new weekly chest.

[Gorsameth]

Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

This entire system is busted and anyone with a calculator can show you how doing anything below a +10 screws you extremely hard. So friends with alts or on their mains you are now punished HEAVILY for helping them.

My entire point will easily be provable via RaiderIO data. If you guys think you got screwed before with people leaving in a +10 and the key getting downgraded now imagine boosting that key to a +9 to a +10 but now that +9 guarantees your second tier reward is screwed unless you do 4+ 10'S and atleast 1 +11 to get an average of a +10 award.

Do people not understand how stupid complicated this is going to get?!?!?

All of this crap people tell people about pushing their keys to get good and RaiderIO is not a problem are now wrong because pushing keys below a 10 are going to be nearly impossible to group for and that is a fact. You are HEAVILY punished for pushing keys now.

All of this sheer stupidity to avoid having a simple gear vendor with a currency. Anyone who raids or has a solid guild WILL NEVER understand where casuals are coming from on this system.

Guilds that sell +10s are going to be mandatory for casuals because NOONE is going to risk getting downgraded to a +9 from failing a 10. It sounds good on a spreadsheet which is how Ion designs WoW but applying it to the real world quickly reveals how busted this is.

There is the game Ion thinks WoW is and the game WoW really is with the players.

You talk about average. there is no average.
To get a +10 reward from your 5 dungeon option you need to do 5 +10's. Any other dungeon's you have done are not relevant. you can do 100 M2+ or 1 M9+, so long as you did 5 10+'s you get a 10+ option.

If you did 4 10+ and 1 9+ you get a 9+ option but the 9+ didn't screw you out of anything, without the 9+ you would have only done 4 dungeons and not gotten the extra item option at all in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

The idea with the great vault (at least from Blizz's point of view) is that you should be rewarded for the area of the game that you dedicate your time to.

In their mind, this is probably a system meant to funnel you into spending more time in the content that you like doing. When in reality, this will just turn into "OH MAN.. I gotta clear the whole raid, AND do 15 15's, AND cap conquest so I have the best selection of possible loot for MAYBE 1 upgrade"

Asmongold said it right: Ion has one view of how the game should be, the player has a view of the game by how it is actually played. Perception vs reality.

also:

from the WoWhead article, for clarity sake.

The people who understand how this system works and still feel they are pressured into getting all 9 options are probably beyond saving and should not be catered to in the first place.

[Stickiler]

When in reality, this will just turn into "OH MAN.. I gotta clear the whole raid, AND do 15 15's, AND cap conquest so I have the best selection of possible loot for MAYBE 1 upgrade"

The person who thinks this way is either addicted, or a fool, and as the classic quote goes "every time you make something foolproof, the universe invents a better fool"

[Delever]

The idea with the great vault (at least from Blizz's point of view) is that you should be rewarded for the area of the game that you dedicate your time to.

In their mind, this is probably a system meant to funnel you into spending more time in the content that you like doing. When in reality, this will just turn into "OH MAN.. I gotta clear the whole raid, AND do 15 15's, AND cap conquest so I have the best selection of possible loot for MAYBE 1 upgrade"

Asmongold said it right: Ion has one view of how the game should be, the player has a view of the game by how it is actually played. Perception vs reality.

also:

from the WoWhead article, for clarity sake.

In general I agree with the statement that οften times the views of the community are not in line with how Ion views the game.
However the bolded statement is entirely a problem of the community and an unhealthy obsession that needs to be internally worked out on an individual basis.
They found a way to reward players who put in effort without taking away from the players who put no effort.
I dont get where this entitlement has generated from the people who put no effort in anyway.
That being said:
1.) Do I think 15 dungeons is disproportionately long compared to the other 2? Yes and I m almost sure its a placeholder number at this point
2.) Do I think making your reward the lowest of your last x runs might be problematic because it will create a situation where people who are lets say 4/5 on their second one will never want to run a mythic dungeon to help a friend who has a +3 or if someone gets into M+ a little bit later they will have a hell of a time finding a group for low keys.

However. Despite the intense trolling and entitlement whining on the covenant of mental gymnastics that is the MMOC forums, blizzard has shown signs of listening in this alpha/beta and have continued to make drastic changes to their systems one by one when there is a massive outcry from the community unlike previous alphas and betas.
So this time I ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
I m more so worried about the second one rather than the 1st one because it could lead to a situation where people dont wanna do lower M+s to help people making it harder to find groups.

[Eazy]

Are you stupid or are you just pretending?
If you continue to do a 15 once a week you will get once piece to choose from just like you did. If you want more chances put some effort into it.

The determining factor being lowest of top dungeons is to prevent people doing one +15 and 14 x 2+.

I think it's fair. You just do 1 or 5 or 15 x m+15 and then however many other dungeons you want including helping your buddies with 5+s.

Are you slow or you're just still learning how to read properly?


I think I have to edit that comment, still getting notifications from it from people who don't read newer comments. It seriously isn't so hard... just check out the messages below or maybe next page. lol

[Gorsameth]

In general I agree with the statement that pften times to virws of the community are not in line with how Ion views the game.
However the bolded statement is entirely a problem of the community and an unhealthy obsession that needs to be internally worked out on an individual basis.
They found a way to reward players who put in effort without taking away from the players who put no effort.
I dont get where this entitlement has generated from the people who put no effort in anyway.
That being said:
1.) Do I think 15 dungeons is disproportionately long compared to the other 2? Yes and I m almost sure its a placeholder number at this point
2.) Do I think making your reward the lowest of your last x runs might be problematic because it will create a situation where people who are lets say 4/5 on their second one will never want to run a mythic dungeon to help a friend who has a +3 or if someone gets into M+ a little bit later they will have a hell of a time finding a group for low keys.

However. Despite the intense trolling and entitlement whining on the covenant of mental gymnastics that is the MMOC forums, blizzard has shown signs of listening in this alpha/beta and have continued to make drastic changes to their systems one by one when there is a massive outcry from the community unlike previous alphas and betas.
So this time I ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
I m more so worried about the second one rather than the 1st one because it could lead to a situation where people dont wanna do lower M+s to help people making it harder to find groups.

Your point #2 is not correct.

If you don't do that 5th dungeon you don't get the 5th option, if you run a low dungeon and nothing else you get a low reward, but the alternative is no reward.
And if you help your friend and then later do a high level key the 5th high level will count for the 5 dungeon itemlvl.

Doing a low level key never punishes you, because the only alternative is not having done enough to even unlock the option.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

This entire system is busted and anyone with a calculator can show you how doing anything below a +10 screws you extremely hard. So friends with alts or on their mains you are now punished HEAVILY for helping them.

My entire point will easily be provable via RaiderIO data. If you guys think you got screwed before with people leaving in a +10 and the key getting downgraded now imagine boosting that key to a +9 to a +10 but now that +9 guarantees your second tier reward is screwed unless you do 4+ 10'S and atleast 1 +11 to get an average of a +10 award.

Do people not understand how stupid complicated this is going to get?!?!?

All of this crap people tell people about pushing their keys to get good and RaiderIO is not a problem are now wrong because pushing keys below a 10 are going to be nearly impossible to group for and that is a fact. You are HEAVILY punished for pushing keys now.

All of this sheer stupidity to avoid having a simple gear vendor with a currency. Anyone who raids or has a solid guild WILL NEVER understand where casuals are coming from on this system.

Guilds that sell +10s are going to be mandatory for casuals because NOONE is going to risk getting downgraded to a +9 from failing a 10. It sounds good on a spreadsheet which is how Ion designs WoW but applying it to the real world quickly reveals how busted this is.

There is the game Ion thinks WoW is and the game WoW really is with the players.

If %2$ is indeed 1/5/15 (which afaik isn't confirmed) then that would mean that running anything below +10 (let's use that as an example cap) is pointless. It wouldn't so much screw you, it would just be utterly pointless. It's also pointless to run 4 instead of 5, especially if even one of these 4 is lower than the cap. So you can actually help people, but it will be a complete waste of your time - which is fair tbh. The issue is more on the cost/benefit side of things, because in reality it will be just pointless to run anything other than the cap and you are right that no one in their right mind will ever want to level up a key again from below +10, because that is just a wasted hour when they still have 4 or 14 more to go. Falling below +10 will burn the key by the sheer virtue of people burning out already themselves because of the base requirement.

I don't see many ways to fix this either without analyzing trends in your played keys which would make the algorithm way too complex to understand. Because the alternative is just cheesing it with low trash keys. Well maybe something like a grace difference of 1 below could make this a bit less strenuous, but that also has edge cases.

[Gorsameth]

If %2$ is indeed 1/5/15 (which afaik isn't confirmed) then that would mean that running anything below +10 (let's use that as an example cap) is pointless. It wouldn't so much screw you, it would just be utterly pointless. It's also pointless to run 4 instead of 5, especially if even one of these 4 is lower than the cap. So you can actually help people, but it will be a complete waste of your time - which is fair tbh. The issue is more on the cost/benefit side of things, because in reality it will be just pointless to run anything other than the cap and you are right that no one in their right mind will ever want to level up a key again from below +10, because that is just a wasted hour when they still have 4 or 14 more to go. Falling below +10 will burn the key by the sheer virtue of people burning out already themselves because of the base requirement.

I don't see many ways to fix this either without analyzing trends in your played keys which would make the algorithm way too complex to understand. Because the alternative is just cheesing it with low trash keys. Well maybe something like a grace difference of 1 below could make this a bit less strenuous, but that also has edge cases.

Is it more of a waste then it is now it is now? (Ignoring for now the "I need to do 7 more +10's this week and I don't have the time to also help level up keys").

But I can see that this might indeed be a problem, but like you I don't see a lot of ways to fix it either. The obvious one that pops into my head right away is to simply do away with having to level keys.
At the start of each week you get a new key but it's simply the highest level you have done that season rather then based on your previous week?

[Delever]

Your point #2 is not correct.

If you don't do that 5th dungeon you don't get the 5th option, if you run a low dungeon and nothing else you get a low reward, but the alternative is no reward.
And if you help your friend and then later do a high level key the 5th high level will count for the 5 dungeon itemlvl.

Doing a low level key never punishes you, because the only alternative is not having done enough to even unlock the option.

Yeah but what if you re in a position where you ve done your first and you re 4/5 on the second one and you re about to run a dungeon (so you would do it) and then a friend pms you to go help them with a +3 because he doesnt have time to play later. Doing that +3 instead of the +10 you were about to do would fuck up your 2nd reward wouldnt it?
As you ve seen from my posts I m not hating on the new feature btw in fact I think its amazing its just this thing that worrries me.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah but what if you re in a position where you ve done your first and you re 4/5 on the second one and you re about to run a dungeon (so you would do it) and then a friend pms you to go help them with a +3 because he doesnt have time to play later. Doing that +3 instead of the +10 you were about to do would fuck up your 2nd reward wouldnt it?
As you ve seen from my posts I m not hating on the new feature btw in fact I think its amazing its just this thing that worrries me.

Assuming you don't have time for a later +10, yes. But should the game be designed around such cases?
And how would you even go about preventing this problem without opening up the system to abuse by running lower level keys to more quickly complete requirement but still get high ilvl options?

[Azerate]

Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

No, you just don't understand how it works. Now I understand someone might not get how a system works, but to assume that Blizzard would ever introduce a system that punishes you for participating in lower end content while being able to do high level content is just bizarre.

Alright, people who say "but you still get one reward!" have no clue what are they talking about.

Having 3 choices is equivalent of having 3 rewards where all of them can be garbage, and that is equivalent of having 3 weekly chests in a single week.
Or may be actually even stronger than that.

Haha, no. Having 3 choices is not the equivalent to having 3 weekly chests.

Plus, the point of contention seems to be the 15 mythic dungeons as an additional choice. Not doing that reduces your choices from 9 to 8. Not from 9 to 1. You are being dishonest right now.

Also people with OCD are doomed. Altoholics with OCD are screwed 10 times over.

Or maybe people should stop making fun of mental ilness by claiming they suffer from it because they want to complete everything in a game. Honestly it's insulting and disrespectful to people actually suffering from these illnesses when morons claim to be autistic and/or have OCD just because they like collecting achievements and transmog.

The idea with the great vault (at least from Blizz's point of view) is that you should be rewarded for the area of the game that you dedicate your time to.

In their mind, this is probably a system meant to funnel you into spending more time in the content that you like doing. When in reality, this will just turn into "OH MAN.. I gotta clear the whole raid, AND do 15 15's, AND cap conquest so I have the best selection of possible loot for MAYBE 1 upgrade"

In reality, people will just play the content they like and be happy they have more options for a reward. In my heroic guild, people are already celebrating that doing weekly mythic+ will no longer be required. Even most of the mythic raiders will probably just skip the most hardcore requirements and be happy with 5-6 item options. The only ones who will really complain are the world first raiders and maybe some forum warriors who repeat everything they say.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Is it more of a waste then it is now it is now? (Ignoring for now the "I need to do 7 more +10's this week and I don't have the time to also help level up keys").

But I can see that this might indeed be a problem, but like you I don't see a lot of ways to fix it either. The obvious one that pops into my head right away is to simply do away with having to level keys.
At the start of each week you get a new key but it's simply the highest level you have done that season rather then based on your previous week?

I don't think it's more of a waste than now, but I also think for the vast majority the incentive to unlock more choices is not worth it either if all they ever did was run 1-3 (fairly realistic imho) m+ a week. All you get is just one more chance at an already too large loot table. So the system just won't do anything for most players in my opinion. If we lose the separate pvp chest over it we might even lose something.

When Ion anounced it, it sounded like a good way to make the weekly chest less awful, which would have been welcomed. But now it's more or less clear that most likely this improvement will just not apply to alot of people, which in turn just leaves me with a /shrug emote tbh.

As for "fixing" it, I kinda hope that each progression path rewards it's own item for once. Otherwise it might as well be a downgrade for many ("time"-)casual people. Changing the m+ key system though, not sure if that is wise. I think keys dropping is integral to the challenge aspect especially in the lower and higher brackets. But I think the idea of the key not deleveling over the weekly reset would be a good idea; at least I can't think of many major downsides right now because of it.

[Delever]

No, you just don't understand how it works. Now I understand someone might not get how a system works, but to assume that Blizzard would ever introduce a system that punishes you for participating in lower end content while being able to do high level content is just bizarre.



Haha, no. Having 3 choices is not the equivalent to having 3 weekly chests.

Plus, the point of contention seems to be the 15 mythic dungeons as an additional choice. Not doing that reduces your choices from 9 to 8. Not from 9 to 1. You are being dishonest right now.



Or maybe people should stop making fun of mental ilness by claiming they suffer from it because they want to complete everything in a game. Honestly it's insulting and disrespectful to people actually suffering from these illnesses when morons claim to be autistic and/or have OCD just because they like collecting achievements and transmog.



In reality, people will just play the content they like and be happy they have more options for a reward. In my heroic guild, people are already celebrating that doing weekly mythic+ will no longer be required. Even most of the mythic raiders will probably just skip the most hardcore requirements and be happy with 5-6 item options. The only ones who will really complain are the world first raiders and maybe some forum warriors who repeat everything they say.

Man even Preach said in his latest video this system doesnt force you to do it and that its great. He also said he feels no pressure to do all 9 and that hes just happy with more choices.
Some people here have SEVERE addiction problems

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it's more of a waste than now, but I also think for the vast majority the incentive to unlock more choices is not worth it either if all they ever did was run 1-3 (fairly realistic imho) m+ a week. All you get is just one more chance at an already too large loot table. So the system just won't do anything for most players in my opinion. If we lose the separate pvp chest over it we might even lose something.

When Ion anounced it, it sounded like a good way to make the weekly chest less awful, which would have been welcomed. But now it's more or less clear that most likely this improvement will just not apply to alot of people, which in turn just leaves me with a /shrug emote tbh.

As for "fixing" it, I kinda hope that each progression path rewards it's own item for once. Otherwise it might as well be a downgrade for many ("time"-)casual people. Changing the m+ key system though, not sure if that is wise. I think keys dropping is integral to the challenge aspect especially in the lower and higher brackets. But I think the idea of the key not deleveling over the weekly reset would be a good idea; at least I can't think of many major downsides right now because of it.

You lose the pvp chest but pvp vendors are coming back so /shrug

[Cosmic Janitor]

You lose the pvp chest but pvp vendors are coming back so /shrug

Then it remains to be seen how this will effectively turn out once currency numbers are final. But you are right, worst case (but probably the reality) the new system will just not change anything for most people.

[Zephire]

I don't think it's more of a waste than now, but I also think for the vast majority the incentive to unlock more choices is not worth it either if all they ever did was run 1-3 (fairly realistic imho) m+ a week. All you get is just one more chance at an already too large loot table. So the system just won't do anything for most players in my opinion. If we lose the separate pvp chest over it we might even lose something.

When Ion anounced it, it sounded like a good way to make the weekly chest less awful, which would have been welcomed. But now it's more or less clear that most likely this improvement will just not apply to alot of people, which in turn just leaves me with a /shrug emote tbh.

As for "fixing" it, I kinda hope that each progression path rewards it's own item for once. Otherwise it might as well be a downgrade for many ("time"-)casual people. Changing the m+ key system though, not sure if that is wise. I think keys dropping is integral to the challenge aspect especially in the lower and higher brackets. But I think the idea of the key not deleveling over the weekly reset would be a good idea; at least I can't think of many major downsides right now because of it.

I don't follow. By looking at current values:
Raids

1. Defeat 3 Raid Bosses
2. Defeat 7 Raid Bosses
3. Defeat 10 Raid Bosses

Mythic+

1. Complete 1 Mythic Dungeon
2. Complete 5 Mythic Dungeons
3. Complete 15 Mythic Dungeons

PvP

1. Earn 100 Conquest Points
2. Earn 150 Conquest Points
3. Earn 250 Conquest Points

It's easier to get a chest in SL than in BFA (if conquest gain isn't changed). Instead of 500 conq in BFA you only need 100. Also doing one m+ nets you another choice. "Much wants more", which might mean players that don't usually do much of X content do a bit more. This system is just way, way better than current, even if it has flaws, one being losing the separate PvP chest. How would this improvement not apply to most people? Why would it be a downgrade in time invested when you still could get the same chest type as in BFA by doing one m+ like current? I don't really understand that reasoning. What do you see that I don't?

[Cosmic Janitor]

I don't follow. By looking at current values:

It's easier to get a chest in SL than in BFA (if conquest gain isn't changed). Instead of 500 conq in BFA you only need 100. Also doing one m+ nets you another choice. "Much wants more", which might mean players that don't usually do much of X content do a bit more. This system is just way, way better than current, even if it has flaws, one being losing the separate PvP chest. How would this improvement not apply to most people? Why would it be a downgrade in time invested when you still could get the same chest type as in BFA by doing one m+ like current? I don't really understand that reasoning. What do you see that I don't?

I know this fact tends to go over alot of people's heads here, but if you think your average joe runs 5 +15 a week then you are mistaken.

Because if you look at what most people do and how they play they will still only get one item from m+, as they probably average out at around 2-3 m+ a week. They also don't constantly spam +20 keys and never drop below +16 and they probably also don't have a pvp rating equal to the level where they would get elite gladiator gear.

For the sake of argument I'd even go as far and say that m+ is the easiest of the 3 to get high iLvl gear from. If you want an equivalent raiding piece you'd need to kill 3 bosses mythic, if you want one from PvP you need the respective raiting. So even if you get a piece out of every category, for many the first m+ will most likely be the one with the highest item level, invalidating the other choices on the spot 3-4 weeks into the season. On top of that your second pick choice from m+ requires you to actively farm high m+ keys instead of just playing one up and stopping once you are done. Let's leave the PvP case out for now and just look at a Pve scenario: Let's say you clear heroic (which afaik is already above the average) und you do your 1 or 2 max loot-level m+. The options from raiding will just be useless to you as well, because why bother with the stuff that is 15 iLvl below the one of the m+ loot? Even if you have 10 boss kills, that is still 3 pieces of loot that is lower than the m+ reward. While it's true that there will be supposedly a currency reward as well, we don't know what kind of reward this will be and how it's calculated.

I just don't see how the average player would profit form such a system in any way. It won't be detrimental either (if the PvP vendor doesn't screw you over), but it also might just as well not exist for them. A certain degree of disapointment for this average player is thus understandble imho, as they were promised less RNG, but they won't be getting it unless they change the way they play the game.

[Delever]

I know this fact tends to go over alot of people's heads here, but if you think your average joe runs 5 +15 a week then you are mistaken.

Because if you look at what most people do and how they play they will still only get one item from m+, as they probably average out at around 2-3 m+ a week. They also don't constantly spam +20 keys and never drop below +16 and they probably also don't have a pvp rating equal to the level where they would get elite gladiator gear.

For the sake of argument I'd even go as far and say that m+ is the easiest of the 3 to get high iLvl gear from. If you want an equivalent raiding piece you'd need to kill 3 bosses mythic, if you want one from PvP you need the respective raiting. So even if you get a piece out of every category, for many the first m+ will most likely be the one with the highest item level, invalidating the other choices on the spot 3-4 weeks into the season. On top of that your second pick choice from m+ requires you to actively farm high m+ keys instead of just playing one up and stopping once you are done. Let's leave the PvP case out for now and just look at a Pve scenario: Let's say you clear heroic (which afaik is already above the average) und you do your 1 or 2 max loot-level m+. The options from raiding will just be useless to you as well, because why bother with the stuff that is 15 iLvl below the one of the m+ loot? Even if you have 10 boss kills, that is still 3 pieces of loot that is lower than the m+ reward. While it's true that there will be supposedly a currency reward as well, we don't know what kind of reward this will be and how it's calculated.

I just don't see how the average player would profit form such a system in any way. It won't be detrimental either (if the PvP vendor doesn't screw you over), but it also might just as well not exist for them. A certain degree of disapointment for this average player is thus understandble imho, as they were promised less RNG, but they won't be getting it unless they change the way they play the game.

I have a nine to five work that sometimes runs for more (research with living organisms goes brrrrr), I come back home to cook with my girlfriend and spend some time, then I work out for an hour, cook for the next day and afterwards sit at the computer to play. Typically this leaves me between 2-3 hours max a day to play assuming I dont choose to spend that time on something else.
That being said I consider myself the epitomy of the average joe. A normal job, a partner and a workout routine.
I will very much profit from this system. Some of these days these 2-3 hours will be raiding with my guild thereby unlocking the 3 choices from that (yes we do raid mythic too, slower than other guilds but we ve downed Nzoth). Some other days I will be doing M+. Currently I run about 5 M+ a week as I enjoy them very much most of which are during the weekend before or after going out for a drink or food. The other time I spend casual pvping and doing other activities in the game like achiev hunting or transmog farming. Once I m done gearing my characters now that BiS lists are coming back in SL with gear being simpler, I might be choosing the pvp row rewards from the chest to get some pvp chests.
How is this system not beneficial to me as an incredibly average player?
And also I m totally fine with whoever no lifes it to the point where every week they have all 9 choices at their maximum potential. They put in more effort than me and they should be rewarded. Thats how its always been.
I also dont have this incredibly unhealthy obsession that I am obligated to do every single choice in there.

[Cosmic Janitor]

You killed nzoth mythic, you are not an average player.

[Delever]

You killed nzoth mythic, you are not an average player.

You disregarded the entirety of the post and cherry picked one sentence. How does me killing nzoth mythic invalidate the fact that the time I put in the game is that of an average player? This topic is about time invested not skill. I mentioned mythic nzoth to make a case that even an average player in terms of time playing per day can clear mythic. Just much later
If someone is not able to kill mythic Nzoth or does not want to in the first place then why do they care about that ilvl of gear in the first place?
And if they re not spending time in a raid then they re probably spending it on M+ or pvp thereby unlocking more choices.
And if they re not unlocking more choices then they have the option of currency.
How is this not beneficial even for the average player?
Because the average player is not the player who achiev hunts all day and collects mogs either.

[Stickiler]

I just don't see how the average player would profit form such a system in any way. It won't be detrimental either (if the PvP vendor doesn't screw you over), but it also might just as well not exist for them. A certain degree of disapointment for this average player is thus understandble imho, as they were promised less RNG, but they won't be getting it unless they change the way they play the game.

It really depends what activities you think an average player would be partaking in. If they're casual(For the sake of this, I'm declaring that I believe casual to be does some M+, but doesn't push keys hard, and does normal raiding), then they'll immediately benefit from this system, as previously they would only get the item from M+, whereas now they're also getting choices from the normal bosses they manage to get down.

If you assume a casual player does zero raiding at all, and only does M+, they would need to be an extremely casual person to only do 2-3 M+ a week and nothing else, and in that specific situation, they won't see any benefit to this system, until they get invited by a friend/guildie etc to try out some raiding, or maybe a little PvP, and they immediately benefit from the new system.

[Cosmic Janitor]

You disregarded the entirety of the post and cherry picked one sentence. How does me killing nzoth mythic invalidate the fact that the time I put in the game is that of an average player? This topic is about time invested not skill. I mentioned mythic nzoth to make a case that even an average player in terms of time playing per day can clear mythic. Just much later
If someone is not able to kill mythic Nzoth or does not want to in the first place then why do they care about that ilvl of gear in the first place?
And if they re not spending time in a raid then they re probably spending it on M+ or pvp thereby unlocking more choices.
And if they re not unlocking more choices then they have the option of currency.
How is this not beneficial even for the average player?
Because the average player is not the player who achiev hunts all day and collects mogs either.

No, I just pointed out the most obvious flaw in your argument. A literal 1% mythic raider currently spends probably less than 10 hours a week ingame as well. You are very much in the top 20% of raiding guilds with killing mythic nzoth, which is only a fraction of all guilds that raid mythic in the first place, that being only a fraction of the playerbase that raids to begin with. A fixed raid/m+ schedula alone puts you further away from the average most likely. At the end of the day it doubtful that you represent the average, even if you may think so yourself. People tend to underestimate how far down the average truly is, not just in WoW but in live as well.

Also you can question why people even need high ilvl gear, but then you can also question why they would need more choices of worse ilvl gear as well. Especially with iLvl still being a thing in the pug world.

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It really depends what activities you think an average player would be partaking in. If they're casual(For the sake of this, I'm declaring that I believe casual to be does some M+, but doesn't push keys hard, and does normal raiding), then they'll immediately benefit from this system, as previously they would only get the item from M+, whereas now they're also getting choices from the normal bosses they manage to get down.

If you assume a casual player does zero raiding at all, and only does M+, they would need to be an extremely casual person to only do 2-3 M+ a week and nothing else, and in that specific situation, they won't see any benefit to this system, until they get invited by a friend/guildie etc to try out some raiding, or maybe a little PvP, and they immediately benefit from the new system.

The problem with that is simply that m+ is easier. There is no way to surgar coat it. Since m+ was implemented in legion at every point in time you could easily outgear normal raiding items by running m+ keys which were easier and gave you better gear. The casual dropouts in my guild started to call our alt raids transmog runs, because that is pretty much all they boil down to, because even those that otherwise only log in once a week for 2h already outgeared it. Heck even LFR is outgeared by daily emissary chests. At that point, unless Blizzard changes either the difficulty of m+ or the rewards, you simply don't benefit from the raid rewards. The only chance I see here for this to be not the case is the nebulous currency reward we currently know nothing about.