An early look at them great vault, i.e. the new weekly chest.

[Doffen]

How are you people complaining that this is a thing?????
LIke even if you literally just unlock ONE more thing per week from this by putting in minimal effort, this is an improvement for you in every possible way compared to the current version. No one is forcing you to unlock all of them. You only pick one anyway. Just doing more (aka putting more effort) increases your chances of getting something you want. AND EVEN THEN THERE IS THE CURRENCY THAT YOU CAN PICK. YOU WILL LITERALLY NEVER GET SOMETHING 100% USELESS NOW JFC.

PVPers can now get rewarded for doing pvp, raiders can now get rewarded for doing raids and M+ers can now get rewarded for doing M+.
Well and no lifers can do all 3 of them (assuming you do all 3 to the highest level) and thats ok because they put in the effort.

If you dont pvp, this is a not issue for you the bottom row basically might as well be non existant because you wont have enough rating for the pvp rewards to be on the same ilvl as your other rewards making that row effectively useless for you.
If you dont raid this is also a non issue for you as the raid rewards ilvl will be LFR-Normal ilvl. So you dont have to to that row either.
And if you dont M+ but raid then M+ row is also useless as you ll now be getting the highest possible ilvl from your mythic clears anyway and dont need to do M+. Or you can even do one M 15+ like now and get your chances from 3 to 4 items to choose from.

This is a blessing in every single possible way you look at it unless you have an unhealthy compulsion to unlock every possible option on your main and 12 alts every single week and feel "forced" to do so in which case you should probably seek medical help.

In these situations blizzard can never do anything right.

Players: "We need more choices and less rng in the weekly chest!!"
Devs: "We making so the weekly chest gives you more options and less rng"
Players: "Too much!!"

This change is in every way an improvement on the chest we have now. Like, there are literally no downgrade with this change. None. Nada.

[LanToaster]

Only if you ignore the time it takes between each dungeon (finding a new group etc) and the fact that no good raid takes 6-8 hours to clear a raid on farm.

You cant Compare PuG M+ with Raiding Groups.
Either you compare M+ Groups with RaidGroups, or PuG raids with Pug Groups.

True a raid on Farm will breeze through the raid in 1-4 Hours (Depending on Raid Size, and Quality of the Group, breaks). But a Dedicated Mythic+ Group will also Breeze through the Dungeons in record time.

If you PuG M+ you will have alot of Downtime, but the same if you PuG raids.

The equivalent Dungeon player of someone who has a Mythic Raid on farm also doesn't take 40 minutes to do a +15.

And as I said, I understand people saying 15 is maybe to much and should be closer to 10.

Someone pointed out it says: "Mythic Dungeon" not "Mythic Keystone".
Maybe its an Incentive to just do the needed Amount of Keystones, and then fill the bar with M0 dungeons.

But I agree its alot Dungeons, but I can live with just two Item Options, is double from what I get now.

- - - Updated - - -

NO it ain't. The new system basically tells you "you better play every day because you are screwed if you take any time off for whatever reason". They continue to show they have no clue on the concept of "happy medium".

There is the Happy Medium, you get your Reward for 1 Dungeon, and you get a bit more if you do more. I dont see how you are Screwed if you dont play every day.

[CalamityHeart]

Again with the retarded systems - why does everything the community asks for must be so fucking complicated. Why cant it be simple? For m+ loot, why cant it just be the dungeon you played most is the item selection and the highest level you did was the ilevel? Why do we need averages, top3 bottom3, whatever when it can be SIMPLE and EFFECTIVE?

This is simple and effective. You're just choosing not to think critically above a child's level. You mentioned averages when there are none in this system for M+. The system doesn't consider your bottom runs, only a certain number of your top runs, and simply picks the lowest of those top runs for the chest.

It's been explained multiple, multiple times in this thread, in pretty simple numbers. Read.

[Gorsameth]

NO it ain't. The new system basically tells you "you better play every day because you are screwed if you take any time off for whatever reason". They continue to show they have no clue on the concept of "happy medium".

How? doing 1 M15+ or killing 3 Mythic bosses will likely get you a max ilvl item. Playing 1 hour or playing 2000 hours will give the same reward. 1 item.
The person putting in 2000 hours has more choice in what item he gets and as a result might get a more desirable item but the reward for both is 1 max ilvl item.

[Wuusah]

How? doing 1 M15+ or killing 3 Mythic bosses will likely get you a max ilvl item. Playing 1 hour or playing 2000 hours will give the same reward. 1 item.
The person putting in 2000 hours has more choice in what item he gets and as a result might get a more desirable item but the reward for both is 1 max ilvl item.

It's pettiness. The thought that if you don't get just as much in every possible way as someone else does then you are getting punished. Some people are just like that. Can't really change that toxic mentality of theirs, no matter how much you reply.

[CalamityHeart]

NO it ain't. The new system basically tells you "you better play every day because you are screwed if you take any time off for whatever reason". They continue to show they have no clue on the concept of "happy medium".

People with this mindset will think like this regardless of what Blizzard does. There is no happy medium for these kinds of players.

The great vault does not propagate that mindset, but it doesn't alleviate it, either. There is no helping the loot goblin extremists who are foaming at the mouth constantly screeching about how Blizzard is trying to kill them by forcing them to play their game, like they're stupid puppets on strings tied to their computers. The chest is not for those players. Fuck those players.

The chest is aimed more at people just below the extreme of that spectrum who play because they see no end in sight. The weekly goals gives them an end, a framework to work with, a structure for their play and a point where they can comfortably say "I'm done for the week." ...but if they're so inclined, they're free to do more. That's the happy medium.

Blizzard should not cater to the piteous maniacs who look at every system in the game as a min that they have to max. They don't have to cater to those players, because those players inevitably bend the knee to Blizzard regardless.

[Segus1992]

You cant Compare PuG M+ with Raiding Groups.
Either you compare M+ Groups with RaidGroups, or PuG raids with Pug Groups.

True a raid on Farm will breeze through the raid in 1-4 Hours (Depending on Raid Size, and Quality of the Group, breaks). But a Dedicated Mythic+ Group will also Breeze through the Dungeons in record time.

If you PuG M+ you will have alot of Downtime, but the same if you PuG raids.

This random capitalization makes my eyes hurt.

Anyway, if we're going with the optimal speed, the fastest +15 runs clock in at around 15 minutes average which - if you assume no travel time between dungeons at all - is 3 hours and 45 minutes.

Meanwhile, the fastest Nyalotha Mythic clear is 1 hour and 38 minutes. Most quick clears clock in around 2 hours.

So, in summary, that's twice the time to fill the M+ meter (assuming instant travel between keys) when doing +15 keys (which are much easier than Mythic raids) compared to clearing a Mythic raid. Should go without saying that if both were doing equal difficulty with realistic travel times, the difference would be much greater.

Source: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...peed&boss=2346
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...eed&bracket=15

[LanToaster]

This random capitalization makes my eyes hurt.

Anyway, if we're going with the optimal speed, the fastest +15 runs clock in at around 15 minutes average which - if you assume no travel time between dungeons at all - is 3 hours and 45 minutes.

Meanwhile, the fastest Nyalotha Mythic clear is 1 hour and 38 minutes. Most quick clears clock in around 2 hours.

So, in summary, that's twice the time to fill the M+ meter (assuming instant travel between keys) when doing +15 keys (which are much easier than Mythic raids) compared to clearing a Mythic raid. Should go without saying that if both were doing equal difficulty with realistic travel times, the difference would be much greater.

Source: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...peed&boss=2346
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...eed&bracket=15

I didnt say 15M+ wouldnt take quite a bit longer.
You can safely calculate around 7-8 Hours for the Dungeons. I just wanted to note that the complaints of:
"Finding a Group", which jack up the time each run, are invalid.

On another note however is, there is a Limit on Raiding you can do per week. And that is usually the one Raid you have the Season. That means you clear it once and its done.
On the Other hand you dont have a Limit on M+, and as you said, Raids of the same Difficulty are harder than the respective M+ level. That means its just fair to do a bit more of them.

Not to mention, that according to the Tooltip you need 10 Mythic Kills for 3 Items, but only X/15 Mythic Dungeons need to be that level. In the Best case as I said even M0 dungeons might count.

[Kalisandra]

if they run 1 m+ key a week they are allowed the maximum reward from that key. no different than current system

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. If "casuals" are feeling left out because they can only pick the one items, that's on them sorta... if you want more stuff, you play more. I really don't see the issue with this. Also considering how much loot we throw away in BFA anyway, it'll be refreshing (hopefully) to have stuff drop that you actually want to keep for once.

What's more, the casuals aren't actually getting less loot from the box. They are getting fewer choices, so they'll take longer to get BiS, but not that much longer to get mostly top-ilevel (for the content they run) gear.

[Alcsaar]

and how many items do you get to choose from now in bfa ?
If you do 1 high key in SL with this system, you get 1 item of max level reward in the chest, just like you do now. So this is 100% an upgrade. If you don't want to put in the effort to get the extra rewards, then you shouldn't have the rewards. But you are not getting anything less than what you have now

Its not extra rewards though, its extra *choices*. And what I said is exactly what you repeated - its no different from previous expansions for people who can't run that many dungeons a week, so it may as well not even exist for those people. A system that easily could have been provided to everyone.

[Wuusah]

Its not extra rewards though, its extra *choices*. And what I said is exactly what you repeated - its no different from previous expansions for people who can't run that many dungeons a week, so it may as well not even exist for those people. A system that easily could have been provided to everyone.

That's the whole point of the system, though. It's a reward for continuously doing difficult content. It's not meant to be given. It's meant to be taken. If you want it, then do something for it.

[Segus1992]

I didnt say 15M+ wouldnt take quite a bit longer.
You can safely calculate around 7-8 Hours for the Dungeons. I just wanted to note that the complaints of:
"Finding a Group", which jack up the time each run, are invalid.

On another note however is, there is a Limit on Raiding you can do per week. And that is usually the one Raid you have the Season. That means you clear it once and its done.
On the Other hand you dont have a Limit on M+, and as you said, Raids of the same Difficulty are harder than the respective M+ level. That means its just fair to do a bit more of them.

Not to mention, that according to the Tooltip you need 10 Mythic Kills for 3 Items, but only X/15 Mythic Dungeons need to be that level. In the Best case as I said even M0 dungeons might count.

We have no idea what X might be. It could be the number of dungeons necessary to reach that tier.

If we say doing more M+ should give the same rewards as doing harder content, that's what I disagree with. It seems like that's what the intention is (long grind vs difficult grind) when in reality M+ has the potential of being harder than Mythic raids.

Personally I feel like the maximum difficulty for M+ should be increased to better represent Mythic raid difficulty, and the runs necessary for 3 reward choices to be reduced to 5-10. It's just strange that M+ should be the "easier but grindier" option of the three when they're all consolidated into one weekly chest.

[Gorsameth]

We have no idea what X might be. It could be the number of dungeons necessary to reach that tier.

If we say doing more M+ should give the same rewards as doing harder content, that's what I disagree with. It seems like that's what the intention is (long grind vs difficult grind) when in reality M+ has the potential of being harder than Mythic raids.

Personally I feel like the maximum difficulty for M+ should be increased to better represent Mythic raid difficulty, and the runs necessary for 3 reward choices to be reduced to 5-10. It's just strange that M+ should be the "easier but grindier" option of the three when they're all consolidated into one weekly chest.

Now that there are more options to get the gear from the chest they could increase the M+ difficulty needed? (and reduce the amount of runs needed)

[MakeMeLaugh]

Omg, are you guys serious about this X number of bosses/runs required to increase this step thing? Omg my alts man, god damnit...

[Alcsaar]

That's the whole point of the system, though. It's a reward for continuously doing difficult content. It's not meant to be given. It's meant to be taken. If you want it, then do something for it.

Yea see I thought it was just intended to be an improvement to the system all around, not just improved for people who play wow as a part time job; once again pushing this envelope for squeezing out as many hours as possible from players even if it isn't fun.

[Wuusah]

Yea see I thought it was just intended to be an improvement to the system all around, not just improved for people who play wow as a part time job; once again pushing this envelope for squeezing out as many hours as possible from players even if it isn't fun.

it is an improvement for EVERYONE. Even if you get just one extra choice, that's one more choice than you get right now. Those who play this game a lot just get a bit more. Is that really hurting you so much?

[Gorsameth]

Omg, are you guys serious about this X number of bosses/runs required to increase this step thing? Omg my alts man, god damnit...

Do your alts need 5-6 options to chose from?
You still only get 1 item and you still get that item by doing 1 dungeon as minimal investment.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Do your alts need 5-6 options to chose from?
You still only get 1 item and you still get that item by doing 1 dungeon as minimal investment.

I know, but I was expecting some options for my alts with just 1 run. I like to play a lot of alts, and the current model of only 1 option is pretty bad.

At least a minimum of 2 options with just 1 run would be somewhat good enough.

[Cosmic Janitor]

it is an improvement for EVERYONE. Even if you get just one extra choice, that's one more choice than you get right now. Those who play this game a lot just get a bit more. Is that really hurting you so much?

PvP chest used to be seperate, now it's just an option next to the m+ option.

Also this new system doesn't happen in a vaccum. Loot is scarcer now, making options and ways to aquire them way more valuable, but only of the effort for it is reasonable.

[CalamityHeart]

I know, but I was expecting some options for my alts with just 1 run. I like to play a lot of alts, and the current model of only 1 option is pretty bad.

At least a minimum of 2 options with just 1 run would be somewhat good enough.

"Just give me more rewards." is not the name of the game, unfortunately.

You want more options for less or the same amount of work? "Too bad." is probably what Blizzard's answer is going to be.