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  1. #61
    Fluffy Kitten GothamCity's Avatar
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    I think the lack of monks stem from three issues: fantasy, history, and player reception.

    Fantasy: The monk lacks a core class fantasy that is rooted in historic RPGs and fantasy worlds that predated WoW. Most people coming into the game are familiar with warriors, wizards, paladins, warlocks, necromancers, shamans, rangers, etc. We have most of the core archetypes covered in the game (excluding necromancy and summoner classes). A martial arts expert doesn't really 'fit' in the game. Monks are the least popular class in D&D in online polls and few other RPGs embrace the playstyle. It's hard to convince a player to embrace martial arts when you can play the standard archetypes.

    History: Monks came out in MoP. Many people joined the game before that and had already invested in their mains and did not want to swap. Most people do not play dedicated alts either. DKs and DHs were an easier sell since they started so close to max level and had a much deeper fantasy and stronger roots in WoW lore. Especially back in MoP, leveling is not some trivial task. Even with the 100% exp buff, it can still take ~20-25 hours played to go from 1 to 120. And to be frank, leveling in WoW is not particularly fun for most players. Plus there is the ever growing wall of max-level catchup to do. If you rolled a monk today, it'd be 6-8 weeks of fairly dedicated play to catch up in terms of gear, corruptions, cloak level, etc. Back in Legion the wall was artifact level. WoD was an OK time to re-roll, but the leveling issue was still there.

    Reception: Monks were unpopular at launch. I think this is largely due to them being so heavily linked to Pandaren and the 'kung-fu panda' meme at the time. Furthermore, Monks have been in a shaky state over the expansions. We've had monks for roughly eight years, and I'd say around 3-4 of them were good years. Most of the time it isn't obvious what they want monks to be and they feel overlooked due to their unpopularity. Monks used to be a very deep, rich class with many tools and options. Brewmaster used to be a very deep and challenging tank, with a large gap between the worst and best of the spec. Now it's fairly simple: take a cookie cutter talent build (there is almost no choice), keep up Ironskin Brew and use Purifying when brew capped (try to use a WeakAura to make this a bit more optimal). Windwalkers have an ability that forces them to hold still for several seconds, which can easily lead to unpreventable deaths, especially in M+ when abilities are hard to predict. Earlier in the expansion they had another ability that incentivized them to essentially take 100% of their health in damage in as short a time frame as possible (this damage is reflected back to the attacker). It was (and still is) very easy to die by accident as a windwalker.

    FYI I main a Brewmaster Monk. I am sad that there are not more of us.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    Ele/Enh have been memes since Vanilla.
    100% Troll, Elemental was by far the best spec in BFD

  3. #63
    I think you make some good points. But really think it has to do with the fact that their tuning sucks pretty bad. They are almost always the lowest DPS/HPS in raids. This mainly happens because if their numbers are too good, then they dominate PVP. In MOP lots of people played Monks, some was because they were new but mainly because they were crazy OP, especially in PVP. In BFA Brew Master was played a lot but in 8.3 they got nerfed to shit. For a bit, MW was strong, actually too strong for Blizz and they got nerfed to the dirt as well. WW for whatever reason is never allowed to be a top DPS.

    I think if Monk was top DPS/Healing for a couple patches in a row, you would see them being played a lot. Monks are actually very fun to play, but why play them when you cant touch other DPS/Healers on the meters?

  4. #64
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Like DK's, people use them a lot to speed level to unlock things like heritage armor. However, I'd imagine if Brewmaster or Mistweaver were OP at tanking/healing at the moment, people would be running them more.

  5. #65
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    No idea other than anecdotal evidence.

    I like the mobility and self heal on the two monks that I have. Played a bit of Brewmaster on the Pandaren, but now both are windwalkers (the other is a Void elf). Maybe a bit too many abilities? That also have "clunky" conditions like "you can only use this ability when two other abilities are on CD". Also compared to charge or Fel Rush, that flying serpent kick is very odd to me.

    I don't have the feeling on so many other dps speccs that I play.

    Also..it is a class added late in game and the later they are added the more they compete with existing classes. Whatever truth is in this lis https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ters-by-class/ still surprised me that DH are even LESS played? Would fit my claim though that if you are a class added late, you struggle for popularity.

    Not surprisingly, it works with races as well: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

    Exception: DKs are in the mid popularity though added only in WotLK and BEs are the most popular Horde race, though added "only" in TBC

  6. #66
    I like martial arts fights. However personally I always find really awkward when someone is fist fighting some else in armor with huge weapon in both hands.
    Monk as class fantasy imho doesn't suit WoW very well. I could be little better if they used fist weapons or staff.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Frandaero View Post


    That artifact weapon ability was Bonkers good. Popping Serenity, the ability and a RSK did like 80% of HP of someone lol



    My favorite past time was popping Serenity and then three shotting the Flight Master Whistle mount that enemy players have summoned, before it could pick them up (you have like a 3sec window) and they just stood there dumbfounded, with the whistle on cooldown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    And they shouldn't. Besides those weird offshots in the Scarlet Monastery, Pandaren are iconic monks of Warcraft.



    As they should be.
    I guess that's a class fantasy some players like, most of max lvl monks are Pandaren after all, it just doesn't fit when you make a monk of another race.
    They could have slowly evolved the class fantasy, but they never bothered to, so it's stuck in one place and that's never good

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermeoth View Post
    I like martial arts fights. However personally I always find really awkward when someone is fist fighting some else in armor with huge weapon in both hands.
    Monk as class fantasy imho doesn't suit WoW very well. I could be little better if they used fist weapons or staff.
    Blizzard tried to address that with the Hidden Master questline and the Savior of the Stoneplow quest. It was shown that monks can break pretty much anything with their bare hands when they concentrate and use chi, so armor shouldn't be much of an obstacle.
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2020-08-06 at 03:41 AM.

  9. #69
    Controversially, I don't actually think a lack of Monks is primarily due to the Kung Fu Panda thing.

    I think it's simply because they're not very well designed specs. Brewmaster and Windwalker especially feel very clunky to play. Mistweaver is a little better, but the idea of fistweaving probably puts a lot of people off despite it being by no means required. I guess Blizzard focused too much on fantasy over functionality with the Monk, which is why we are in the spot of e.g. WW just being a weird version of Rogue.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Controversially, I don't actually think a lack of Monks is primarily due to the Kung Fu Panda thing.

    I think it's simply because they're not very well designed specs. Brewmaster and Windwalker especially feel very clunky to play. Mistweaver is a little better, but the idea of fistweaving probably puts a lot of people off despite it being by no means required. I guess Blizzard focused too much on fantasy over functionality with the Monk, which is why we are in the spot of e.g. WW just being a weird version of Rogue.
    The majority of people who have any interest in class design, for example the majority of YouTubers who have created class overviews on most/all specs for the last few expansions (principally Preach but also more casual ones like Bellular and Kelani), find Windwalker to be a very well designed spec, and this sentiment is echoed by the playerbase as a whole - the meme is that WW is very fun to play, but tends to underperform on the damage meters. So I think it's just you.

  11. #71
    Here's a few reasons:
    1. Convoluted and complicated to play, having probably the 2nd most amount of keys and gimmicks after demo warlocks. Oh and in SL, it receives even more keys and gimmicks.
    2. Results don't make up for number (1). You can literally wreck dps meters and noobs in pvp by playing a DH, which is a 3 key spec. So why even bother with WW?
    3. The class theme is whimsical, with nothing badass about it. This isn't interesting to players in our day and age where Heroism and Edginess are major attractions.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    3. The class theme is whimsical, with nothing badass about it. This isn't interesting to players in our day and age where Heroism and Edginess are major attractions.
    That is the number one reason why I love the Monk

  13. #73
    Banned Venziir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leggomydairy View Post
    They were the most fun in Mists imo

    The panda visuals are too class connected. They’re constantly focusing on the idea that monks are pandaren or other races taught by them and never show us more about the human monks of scholomance or the draenei monks of Auchindoun.
    Yeah the major focus on Pandaria and the August Celestials seriously clashes with any other race than Pandaren - sadly.

  14. #74
    I'm on attempt #2 of levelling monk, and for me, the animations and sound design just suck, which is a huge deal for me. Playing WW while I level and the only move I loosely enjoy using is RSK. Blackout Kick just feels so slow and has no oomph, tiger palm is just a filler, fists of fury is honesty just boring as shit (I hate channeled spells in general).

    I used to love Brewmaster but now it feels pretty trash too, cant put my finger on why.

    Playing monks for me lacks fun in the same way using a gun on a hunter after they changed the sounds killed using those weapons for me. The actual rotational stuff is fine, but the visual and audio design just ruins them for me. Currently my favourite ability on my KT Monk is the racial Haymaker.

  15. #75
    Banned Venziir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    The monks we play are the Eastern Martial Arts master trope embodied by the pandaren monks.

    The western style of monks we see in Lordareon are more like priests.
    The monks we meet in SM use fire breath, kicks and punches too, for some odd reason.

  16. #76
    I changed to Monk because it's the only class with 3 different-role specs I truly enjoy. And I absolutely love mobility.

    Fantasy is a bit weak, but I've grown to love it.

  17. #77
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The monks we meet in SM use fire breath, kicks and punches too, for some odd reason.
    They didn't do any of that before SM was remade in MoP.

  18. #78
    Banned Venziir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    They didn't do any of that before SM was remade in MoP.
    Did SM have monks before that?

  19. #79
    This is not the case anymore. Shadowlands is going to see monks rise immensely. It is already happening now with how powerful Mistweaver and Windwalker are becoming. Mistweaver is a reliable and snipe able powerhouse of a healer for raiding and helping in pushing M+ with its utility and brewmaster has been the top tank in wow for years now. Windwalker is becoming a burst king again with a zoo of earth/fire/wind clones and tiger up along with immense sustain and survival. If you think monks are so few represented then you should do a census count with the addon.

  20. #80
    I honestly don't know.

    The class is super fun and everyone in my circle of friends loves playing them.

    So, i dunno. I guess it has less casual appeal, but it's a lot of fun and that is what matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serow081 View Post
    That is the number one reason why I love the Monk
    I second that. Some people have the wrong idea that all we want to play and watch is dark and broody stuff.
    I am so tired of dark and broody. It's why i can't enjoy Demon hunter.

    Well... that and cause it's simplicity makes it boring.


    Honestly, the class i see least populated is shaman.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-08-10 at 10:45 PM.

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