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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    That would fall into the category of overspending for most frugal people. I mean if you enjoy it for that money, sure. But I'm willing to bet there are perfectly fine lunch options within walking distance from such restaurant for less than $20 in city centres. And less than that if you literally just want food in your stomach, e.g. make a sandwich at home and drink some tap water.
    I think you missed the word average. A frugal person won't go to a restaurant. They'll go to a sandwich shop or cafe, where you aren't served.

    The original statement wasn't about how much lunch would cost for a frugal person, but "$15 lunch? where do you live for it to cost that much?"

    Let's skip a specific restaurant, and check what some other websites say:

    https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/vancouver - Basic lunchtime menu (including a drink) in the business district - $19

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Vancouver - Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant $17.00

    So where would you spend $15 for a lunch? the majority of restaurants in Vancouver (and you'll probably spend more).

  2. #442
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    Does not make it any less disgusting.
    So, what are you, or anyone else that is disgusted with this behavior actually going to do about it?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    So, what are you, or anyone else that is disgusted with this behavior actually going to do about it?
    That is up to the individual depending on their moral compass.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    So you are definitely in the 'pillage the rich, give to the poor' crowd in a general sense too. I get the fact that large companies can easily "afford" to do these things, but do you really think all of the local businesses around you can afford to pay all of their sub-$15/hour workers, $15/hour and all of their $15/hour+ employees whatever the "difference" would end up being, *while* keeping prices the same - because we both know with these massive increases in wages you people want you also expect prices to not be dramatically inflated as a result.

    Here's the thing, people will clearly work these jobs that pay the current minimum wage, why is that? I think that's another misconception too, it's not like jobs that pay $15/hour (around me anyway) require degrees or anything. Go hold a flag during construction and make ~$18-20/hour.

    The *real* problem is that people don't want to actually "work". How do I know that, because the landscaping and snow removal industry has an extremely hard time hiring laborers even when companies are paying between $15-$20/hour.
    No, prices will go up, but not to the extreme or degree people against a minimum wage increase claim it will. And yes I do think the places that are good will keep going. I've worked at a couple of small business and both owners were doing very well while implementing pay ceilings of 14$ an hour or less and stiffing their employees out of PTO. They're more than capable of paying their workers livable wages. And if they aren't do they really deserve to continue existing? If their workers have to go on government assistance to live, should we keep footing the bill for their mansions on lakes, multiple 50K$+ cars, nannies, cooks, boats, golf memberships? That applies to all business owners by the way. Taxes have been supplementing corporate greed for decades and it's about time the government stopped catering to them. S'all i'm sayin'.

    And a lot of them actually do require at least a 2 year degree in something. I've looked. Unless you enjoy selling a gamble to people that they won't die soon, or will, depending on how you look at it i guess. "Go hold a flag".....that's the basis for 'work' you hold? But it's ridiculous the person working cashier at a grocery store could make that? You know the person actually working.....

    Lawn care is the biggest waste of time, money, energy and resources. It's the male equivalent of working real estate. It's what you do when you're not good at anything else.
    Last edited by blankfaced; 2020-08-23 at 11:23 PM.
    I'm a thread killer.

  5. #445
    Should customer service reps (aka uneducated call center employees) earn over 100k?

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    No, prices will go up, but not to the extreme or degree people against a minimum wage increase claim it will. And yes I do think the places that are good will keep going. I've worked at a couple of small business and both owners were doing very well while implementing pay ceilings of 14$ an hour or less and stiffing their employees out of PTO. They're more than capable of paying their workers livable wages. And if they aren't do they really deserve to continue existing? If their workers have to go on government assistance to live, should we keep footing the bill for their mansions on lakes, multiple 50K$+ cars, nannies, cooks, boats, golf memberships? That applies to all business owners by the way. Taxes have been supplementing corporate greed for decades and it's about time the government stopped catering to them. S'all i'm sayin'.
    Not all small business are the same. Well-established business in certain sectors can potentially handle minimum wages in theory, newer/upstart small business or small business in sectors where margins are tight likely cannot. Working for a small business is one thing, owning/operating one is quite another. For the first several years of starting up a small business, it's very likely the owner is not raking in a paycheck at all, or operating at a deficit in hopes that long-term efforts will pay off. My wife and I have started up small businesses, and it's a helluva lot of risk involved, especially if you aren't sitting on a bunch of capital. If you hire people, you pay them what you can, but most come in knowing that they're lucky if they can get paid at all at the start. Having regulations forcing business to pay X amount of money just kills small business before they start.

    Which comes down the main point: no one is forcing you or mandating you to have a job at a certain company. If the pay and benefits suck, don't work there. The only reason companies will pay what some consider not a 'living wage' (which is insanely arbitrary, but that's another matter) is because people are willingly working for that wage. No one is guaranteed the right to work at where they want for the pay/benefits they want. Doesn't mean you can't make that happen, but the jobs available and the pay/benefits offered are highly driven by who can/is willing to fill the job at a certain price point. If the terms change over time and you don't like where it's headed, you can leave your job and find a new one (or get a job that has a private sector union involved for arbitration purposes). If you want to avoid scenarios like these, becoming someone who is indispensable to your company is a surefire way to make sure you get the pay/benefits you want.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #447
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Should customer service reps (aka uneducated call center employees) earn over 100k?
    No and yes.
    The job itself might not be the kind of difficult to warrant extremely high pay, but Blizzard campus is located in the most expensive part of the US, where living expenses are extremely high. So normal low-end salary such job would have is not enough to live there. Blizz should move such jobs to cheaper areas.

  8. #448
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    No and yes.
    The job itself might not be the kind of difficult to warrant extremely high pay, but Blizzard campus is located in the most expensive part of the US, where living expenses are extremely high. So normal low-end salary such job would have is not enough to live there. Blizz should move such jobs to cheaper areas.
    Unfortunately for blizzard it’s a lose lose situation. If they don’t pay low end jobs insane amounts people hate on them and if they try and move jobs to different area’s people hate on them for letting people go.

    Even if they had brought every employee a house and car when they were First hired I’m sure people would find something to complain about.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Not all small business are the same. Well-established business in certain sectors can potentially handle minimum wages in theory, newer/upstart small business or small business in sectors where margins are tight likely cannot. Working for a small business is one thing, owning/operating one is quite another. For the first several years of starting up a small business, it's very likely the owner is not raking in a paycheck at all, or operating at a deficit in hopes that long-term efforts will pay off. My wife and I have started up small businesses, and it's a helluva lot of risk involved, especially if you aren't sitting on a bunch of capital. If you hire people, you pay them what you can, but most come in knowing that they're lucky if they can get paid at all at the start. Having regulations forcing business to pay X amount of money just kills small business before they start.

    Which comes down the main point: no one is forcing you or mandating you to have a job at a certain company. If the pay and benefits suck, don't work there. The only reason companies will pay what some consider not a 'living wage' (which is insanely arbitrary, but that's another matter) is because people are willingly working for that wage. No one is guaranteed the right to work at where they want for the pay/benefits they want. Doesn't mean you can't make that happen, but the jobs available and the pay/benefits offered are highly driven by who can/is willing to fill the job at a certain price point. If the terms change over time and you don't like where it's headed, you can leave your job and find a new one (or get a job that has a private sector union involved for arbitration purposes). If you want to avoid scenarios like these, becoming someone who is indispensable to your company is a surefire way to make sure you get the pay/benefits you want.
    As someone who's been indispensable (literal praise the whole time and tears when i left) that is a lovely fairy tale to tell people. But it's entirely inaccurate to reality. Because the boss knows if you leave you'll have to start at the bottom somewhere else. So it's either take a large pay cut to eventually be back where you were with no guarantee as to how you'll be treated there or if you'll see the pay you expect for your labor and effort. Or stay and just deal with it. In the current situation that politics and corporations have created, you either deal with being treated like shit or go somewhere else and start all over and then get treated like shit. All while having no guarantee you'll be payed for your effort. While the owner (in the state of MI) can fire you for literally anything they choose to, as long as it's not infringing on a protected class! Employees in the US have almost no power when it comes to their rights as working citizens. Politics made sure of that by destroying any semblance of unions or organizations that can help them fight for their rights. Fedex even has an indoctrination video telling you to run to management if anyone comes up to you trying to unionize, because they know unions are good for the employee and bad for them (the employer.) Remember the time when companies used to set up pensions for retirement....yep pretty much non-existent as well, now they've got 401k's that you pay into yourself with potential matching (up to a point.) Thanks politics! Companies wonder why there's no company loyalty anymore, because companies are no longer loyal to their employees! Don't give it, don't get it! Pay them the bare minimum, don't cry when you get the bare minimum in return.

    I apologize, i can go on a bit of a rant. This subject irritates me to a great degree. It's the same parroted talking points from your side. But really you've just got big businesses hand up your bum talking through you like puppets. Just so they can cling to their billions. When in reality, more money in the pockets of the workers in your area and less in the hands of big corporations, means more money spent in your store and the stores near you also owned by entrepreneurs. But you keep fighting for BC thinking it helps you when it really hinders you the most. Because people are going to go to the big box stores because they're able to keep costs lower than you can.
    I'm a thread killer.

  10. #450
    In my opinion customer service salary shouldn't even be close to the jobs where you actually need to have some skills. I don't see any problem with paying them minimum wage.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    In my opinion customer service salary shouldn't even be close to the jobs where you actually need to have some skills. I don't see any problem with paying them minimum wage.
    You dont think dealing with customers takes skills?

    Do you enjoy just getting copy and paste answers from a robot?

    Working with customers is tough work AND vital for the business, if you dont have any customers you dont have a business.

    Just because someone is good at maths and can write up algorithms or can write a line of code doesnt mean they deserve over triple the pay. They both work the same hours, and both are vital to the business. Having clear winners and losers is why society is slowly turning into complete rubbish. You shouldnt have to feel like you're living on a benefit when you are a full time worker. Something is wrong there.

    Screw the guys/girls with empathy/people skills. We just need math and computer nerds! Balance!
    Last edited by Volatilis; 2020-08-25 at 01:01 AM.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    Screw the guys/girls with empathy/people skills. We just need math and computer nerds! Balance!
    Sales/marketing jobs are usually for those people.

    Working in customer support (especially in IT/gaming) is usually just about being a not-so-obvious copy/paste machine. The main skill you need is "impulse control" paired with language skills.
    And i'm saying that as somebody who started his career in CS.
    Last edited by Zmagoslav; 2020-08-25 at 05:33 AM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    In my opinion customer service salary shouldn't even be close to the jobs where you actually need to have some skills. I don't see any problem with paying them minimum wage.
    So the "skilled" can feel better?

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    In my opinion customer service salary shouldn't even be close to the jobs where you actually need to have some skills. I don't see any problem with paying them minimum wage.
    If minimum wage would actually be high enough to support a family or even yourself properly, I'd agree.
    But pretty much no where is that the case (at least the "family" part)

    And I'd argue that any guy doing a job where you have to work 8h/day deserves to earn enough for at least a little amount of luxury that goes beyond "basic substinance" and they should also be able to save up some money.

    I know this is somewhat the problem of goverments not setting a high enough minimum wage, but it's also a problem with companies not willing to share the "wealth" with the majority of the workforce and only some disgustingly greedy individuals at the top.

    I'd be ashamed of myself if I were as greedy as the higher ups at Blizzard or EA (or most other big-player companies) that have the audacity to ask for a raise/bonus on a rather bad fiscal year or when the company has/decides to let a rather significant amount of the workforce go.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-08-25 at 12:04 PM.

  15. #455
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    If minimum wage would actually be high enough to support a family or even yourself properly, I'd agree.
    But pretty much no where is that the case (at least the "family" part)

    And I'd argue that any guy doing a job where you have to work 8h/day deserves to earn enough for at least a little amount of luxury that goes beyond "basic substinance" and they should also be able to save up some money.

    I know this is somewhat the problem of goverments not setting a high enough minimum wage, but it's also a problem with companies not willing to share the "wealth" with the majority of the workforce and only some disgustingly greedy individuals at the top.

    I'd be ashamed of myself if I were as greedy as the higher ups at Blizzard or EA (or most other big-player companies) that have the audacity to ask for a raise/bonus on a rather bad fiscal year or when the company has/decides to let a rather significant amount of the workforce go.
    Just going over the chart again real quick no one who actually put there info in seems to be making minimum with the lowest in the Us being about 16$ an hour for a tester.

    Sure the high ups are lining there pockets with more then they deserve but the problem seems to have nothing to do with minimum rage as even testers are making a fair bit more then it.

  16. #456

    Anonymous Blizzard Salary Survey - July/Aug 2020


  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by kodemonkee View Post
    What is this?
    Considering you made the thread, wrote the title and found the link, I was kinda hoping you would know...

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    Considering you made the thread and found the link, I was kinda hoping you would know...
    Yeah, didn't some people say Blizzard pay their people a really bad salary? I mean what I see here doesn't look that bad, depends where you live of course, if it is in California then some of those $/hour are bad.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by kodemonkee View Post
    I mean what I see here doesn't look that bad
    So what is your point with this thread and why did you post this in the WoW section of the forums?

  20. #460
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    People got up in a tissy because they had an axe to grind before the chart was out and by the time it was the topic died down and said axe grinders didn’t care that the pay isn’t as low as they were outraged about.

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