Torghast in Beta, Growing Concerns

[Gadzooks]

Can somebody translate this, please?

"Cope" is a 4chan troll meme. You're being trolled, hard.

[Utrrabbit]

Sure, children are the ones that need to escape a life full of work, bills, responsibilities and stress by playing a game. There’s plenty to do to inflate your epeen in wow, so don’t worry.

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If you think the only difference between a movie and a game is being able to fail, then there’s nothing I can do for you.

And here we have the most commin example of the child mentality at its finest.

[Alcsaar]

Yeah thats why this game sucks and calssic kick ass and have far more stable playerbase.

Up until it runs out of timegated content

Guilds clearing new raids in under an hour and shit. Zero challenging gameplay, all repetitive grinding.

[Kralljin]

Zero challenging gameplay, all repetitive grinding.

Considering that this very thread points out that the newest game mode might become an auto win outside of its "endless" mode, i believe this is rather ironic.

[Alcsaar]

Considering that this very thread points out that the newest game mode might become an auto win outside of its "endless" mode, i believe this is rather ironic.

There is nothing ironic about it. I play retail WoW for the more challenging raiding and dungeons, with some occasional PVP. I don't play it to do an arcade mode endless dungeon (which is also not challenging, just RNG based) that I'm forced to do as a chore for legendary items to complete in Dungeons/Raids/PVP

There is nothing challenging about classic content for the reasons I pointed out and you quoted.

[Kralljin]

There is nothing ironic about it.

It is, because as said, this thread in particular discusses that its newest feature seemingly poses no significant challenge to any remotely engaged player.

So yeah, pointing out a Classic is easy is one thing, doing it in a thread discussing the aforementioned feature is ironic due to that.

[goldlock]

It is, because as said, this thread in particular discusses that its newest feature seemingly poses no significant challenge to any remotely engaged player.

So yeah, pointing out a Classic is easy is one thing, doing it in a thread discussing the aforementioned feature is ironic due to that.

I still hold out hope they will do something with it but man... why cant we just have the mage tower back? Why can't the actual features players like return...?

You ask people about artifacts and everyone* liked how they unlocked new appearances based on your accomplishments. What do they keep from the system?

Only the endless grind everyone despised ;<

[Kralljin]

I still hold out hope they will do something with it but man... why cant we just have the mage tower back? Why can't the actual features players like return...?

Just speculation on my part, however i assume it has largely to do with one thing: Data driven design.

Quite frankly, i would love to see the success rates of the Mage tower, despite being rather easy in the later cycle of Legion, you still had to abide by certain mechanics in oder to succeed.

Getting knocked off the platform during the tank challenge was still something that could happen, especially to a player that doesn't grasp the whole encounter or their own class.
Similiar things applied to other challenges as well.

Let's be real here, the challenges in terms of mechanics were most certainly on par with heroic or even easier Mythic fights and there are more than enough people on this forum that love to remind everybody that the participation rates for heroic / mythic aren't that huge.

If you take something such as LFR as guidelines and that fact that a not so small amount of the playerbase throws the towel whenever they encounter something that poses a fraction of a challenge, i could guess that the participation / success rates of the Mage tower aren't that high.

Going by a rather heavy handed approach of Data driven design, it's very possible that Blizzard saw that the player engagement metrics (or whatever you want to call it) didn't justify the resources it took to create the Mage tower again for BfA / SL.
(Not to mention that the artifact skins were also "kinda" tied to the Mage tower as well)

Of course, it also could be that BfA / SL simply lacked the proper "vessel" for something like the Mage tower as those artifact skins did in Legion and thus concluded not to follow up on the Mage tower because they had to create a completely fresh reward.

However, looking at the topic of difficulty as a whole in WoW, i don't think that "challenging" and "broad playerbase" go that well together and thus anything that is memoreable due to its difficulty or challenge is more of a subjective thing than being supported by "actual data".

[zaxlor]

Interesting points.

I suspect that the Mage Tower WAS played by a high amount of players, but I bet the retention rate, or the amount of people that re-tried it or even passed was a lot less.

And this is why I suspect that Torghast can't be, or will be very hard to lose in. Blizzard saw that people want some kind of solo challenge like this, much like the Nightmare Visions in BFA (though, I've not done them in Retail, so can't attest to how popular they are as solo content), but if there's any kind of fail state, people bail incredibly fast.

[Ersula]

Torghast, is looking like Islands 2.0. it's already changed so much from something looking really fun to, just another chore to do every week.

If you don't like it why would you have to do it every week? The only resource exclusive to it is soul ash & You can't wear more than 1 or 2 legendaries. And you get your first targeted legendary coupon from covenant renown. After you do it a couple times you can farm anima from other sources if you want

[Joycemiester]

Sounds upside down to me. How it gets easier as you progress and start doing crazy damage and one shots etc. For me it should be getting progressively harder involving more skill, tactics and imagination to proceed. Eventually you would fail no matter what but your team might have reached the highest floor on realm and have bragging rights. You would pass check points that would allow you to continue later like you can with raids. The more I read about Torghast the more I lose interest.

[zaxlor]

Sounds upside down to me. How it gets easier as you progress and start doing crazy damage and one shots etc. For me it should be getting progressively harder involving more skill, tactics and imagination to proceed. Eventually you would fail no matter what but your team might have reached the highest floor on realm and have bragging rights. You would pass check points that would allow you to continue later like you can with raids. The more I read about Torghast the more I lose interest.

Maybe they need to add in some negatives, to go along side the buffs?

I don't remember Dead Cells doing it, but Binding of Issac and Darkest Dungeon both do. Trying to think of other Rogue-lites that also don't always give up straight power increases, since they're often off-set by downgrades, or hinderances.

Or maybe they should do it all in reverse? You actually start with 3-4 buffs at the begining of the dungeon, but as you go deeper the "...light fades..." and your connection to those buffs weakens. At the very bottom, or the further through the floors your travel, the harder it gets as you're back to fighting with just your basic abilities?

[Kellorion]

Fun of spell check.

pardon? your spell check somehow 'auto corrects' into some racist bullshit?

[Krakan]

pardon? your spell check somehow 'auto corrects' into some racist bullshit?

Was supposed to be "news" settle down Karen

[Echeyakee]

I feel that there are several sides to the difficulty argument, and all of them are valid, just as enjoyment from overcoming said difficulties.

Winning, despite the odds. Getting past, even when the numbers tell you otherwise. Your average Asian mmo crafting system, the original rouge-likes, hardcore mode. But many people dislike it, for it fundamentally disrespects your time invested.

Doing the grind, investing time to succeed. Sure, you're unlikely to fail at the core gameplay loop, but the challenge is not in that, it's in the determination to see it through, to be in for the long haul. That's what most aRPGs are built on, your AP and reputations, most mobile games. But many dislike the lack of stimulation along the way.

The "git gud" approach. Pure skill, do it right or fail situation. That's the core of most competitive games, plus an equal(or close to) footing. Mostly multiplayer, but there are singleplayer examples like fury. But not everyone buys in to the competitive nature, and it often relies on physical attributes like precision, dexterity and reaction speed, that not everyone can improve. Also known to cause the most stress.

And most things rarely fall in to just one category. Most rogue-lites will have an underlying grind to get stronger. Same for raiding, being a mixture of it and skill. aRPGs usually allow you to go for harder content with better rewards, if you can handle it.

So my point is don't dismiss something as easy, irrelevant or wrong, just because it's not your preffered way of getting that dopamine hit. And the underlying principle of capitalism: there is no end goal, and even having all the money is just a midway point to getting more. So any system AB puts in will be targeted at as many audiences as they can reach.

[glowpipe]

Yeah thats why this game sucks and calssic kick ass and have far more stable playerbase.

a far more stable playerbase you say. is that why classic has almost no players compared to retail ?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/status/us
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/status/eu

Retail full servers: Us 28, EU 23
Classic full servers: Us 1, Eu 0

Retail high pop: Us 55, Eu 57
Classic High pop: Us 16, Eu 16

So kickass that it has almost no players compared to retail. Damn son.

And you gonna go find some excuse like "but its not official" but it is. Thats directly from blizzards api.
"But retail players have so many alts and in classic you only have 1 char". Queue doesn't care about alts, you playing 10 chars, its still only one player and you can only play one char at a time
"classic has single servers and retail got shards and many people are on different servers". Yes, but that only means there is no queue on retail. Every single character in wow has a home server, its where your guild is located, its where your auction house is located. When you log onto your character on kazzak Eu, even tho you are sharded into turalyon EU, you are still registered as a player on your original server, thats where the character lists are putting you. Thats the server your character belongs to
"but but classic has queue to log in, retail does not". Look above. If you didn't have shards and cross realm zones in retail, every full server in retail. all 51 of them would have queue just like classic. And most of the high pop ones aswell. which there are over 100 of in retail. But oh well. Apparently classic is kicking so much ass that players are just too afraid to play it!

On topic. Do we know if the powers from the broker on beta is just a beta thing ? That you can buy them to test them ?

[Stardrift]

Lost me at the mention and linking of preach lmao

[Kralljin]

Retail full servers: Us 28, EU 23
Classic full servers: Us 1, Eu 0

Retail high pop: Us 55, Eu 57
Classic High pop: Us 16, Eu 16

I think most of those "realm list" arguments fall flat considering that Blizzard is right now actively merging realms, including "full" ones.

Not to mention, Classic's "full" realms have a way bigger player count than they actually should have.

On topic. Do we know if the powers from the broker on beta is just a beta thing ? That you can buy them to test them ?

You have to buy those power upgrades with a currency you earn during the Torghast run, those aren't a Beta thing.

[Sunslayer]

If you don't like it why would you have to do it every week? The only resource exclusive to it is soul ash & You can't wear more than 1 or 2 legendaries. And you get your first targeted legendary coupon from covenant renown. After you do it a couple times you can farm anima from other sources if you want

Legendaries for each spec and for alts. It's going to be never ending.

[glowpipe]

I think most of those "realm list" arguments fall flat considering that Blizzard is right now actively merging realms, including "full" ones.

Not to mention, Classic's "full" realms have a way bigger player count than they actually should have.

You have to buy those power upgrades with a currency you earn during the Torghast run, those aren't a Beta thing.

They are merging lower pop realms with higher pop ones so the lower pops gets a more populated AH etc.
Same server capacity on a full classic realms as a full retail realm. Its the exact same server tech. Classic looks fuller due to no shards or cross realm zones, where you have those in retail. If not, retail would look just the same.

Also, yeah, you get the currency, but currency can be used to buy other things than just the powers. The specific powers can still be a beta thing and won't go live, altho, i doubt it, since we would probably have access to all the powers, and not just a few per broker. Which is something that needs to change asap