LFR and whether it still has a place in WoW

[CaptRik]

Out of curiosity, once you have seen the story the first time, do you call it a day or do you queue LFR for other reasons?

I share the same view as Dead Moose Fandango, I do it once only to see it and not at all for gear

[Relapses]

I'm glad that in the end you agree that WoD had worst LFR, I'm happy that we had this talk. Take care in these trying times.

The only thing trying about these times is having to deal with pedants whose transparent arguments are so weak they're barely worth acknowledging. But I guess you wouldn't know much about that, would you?

[Djaye]

I think it should either be a tourist feature that brings you through the raid in as casual of a manner as possible, highlighting whatever story there is in the instance. A mediocre epic for the first time you complete it only. No gears after that.

Or

Make it a solo instance with a group of AI carrying you for cosmetic gear only.

Or

Scrap it, make a LFD tuned to normal difficulty for a set 10 person group. 2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 dps.

Stop giving gear for afk play. It's made a generation of terrible players.

[Luihu]

In that note, if LFR was removed from the game, would people (who only raid casually) feel motivated to join guilds that run Normal mode raids. There are plenty of such guilds who are willing to try out casual normal raiding. At least you can get a personality match with organized team and raid with a group of similar minded people with similar wow raiding goals.

I dont think it would make people join guilds, arguably only mythic raiding needs a guild right now. If persons goal has been just "clear the raid on normal" it's less effort to use group finder, even with guild you might have few people looking for carries and you would be tied to raid times.

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The only thing trying about these times is having to deal with pedants whose transparent arguments are so weak they're barely worth acknowledging. But I guess you wouldn't know much about that, would you?

Nice edit

[TheRevenantHero]

I think it should either be a tourist feature that brings you through the raid in as casual of a manner as possible, highlighting whatever story there is in the instance. A mediocre epic for the first time you complete it only. No gears after that.

Or

Make it a solo instance with a group of AI carrying you for cosmetic gear only.

Or

Scrap it, make a LFD tuned to normal difficulty for a set 10 person group. 2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 dps.

Stop giving gear for afk play. It's made a generation of terrible players.

No it really hasn't. If it made a generation of terrible players then there wouldn't be as many guilds clearing Mythic as there are. All LFR has done is draw the elitist pricks out of the woodwork who feel the need to dictate how other people are supposed to play the game.

[mysticx]

LFR is a place where you don't have to link your raider.io, ahead of curve and whatever else to the raidleader who might kick you or disband the raid whenever he feels like it.

that alone makes it attractive to a probably much larger than well ever realize subset of players.

This is the biggest appeal to me as well, players make HORRIBLE gatekeepers to content, with the old "Need achievement to get into the raid, how to get the achievement? run the raid!"-loop and all.

Sure, people have the right to decide who to take in their groups, but if it leaves so many people out in the cold, there simply has to be a way to at least do some version of the content that's less onerous than applying for a RL paid job.

[VinceVega]

As long as set-boni don't come back i don't care about LFR. Because i have NO reason at all to join it and the gear is negliable.

It does not make my experience worse and i don't think people who run LFR would even jump over their shadow to join a PuG or guild to run normal and above. Maybe because of lack of motivation, confidence or time.

The ONLY thing i am annoyed by is the fact, that epics are worth nothing anymore. A problem we had for a long time. IMHO the first point where you should get epics is normal raids or Mythic 5+ ( or something )
maybe an Epic piece of gear feels better then... and you are not decked out in epics before even setting foot in any challening content at all

[Velerios]

• Best solution: Bring back Cata/MoP difficulty for the LFR. If Tier does come back, don't let it drop in the LFR but still provide set bonuses. (The WoD approach.)

Wrong: Tier sets are an major provider of player engagement: having none drop makes the game like WoD for casuals: a shithole of an expansion. Nah, simply go back as you said to the difficulty-level of Throne of Thunder LFR: i think this with the lower item level makes it worth dropping tier-sets. Blizzard already makes tier-sets much more flashier in higher difficulties, so it's a good approach.

Blizzard themself confirmed that removal of Tier-Sets in LFR was one of the biggest mistakes they've made.

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It does not make my experience worse and i don't think people who run LFR would even jump over their shadow to join a PuG or guild to run normal and above. Maybe because of lack of motivation, confidence or time.

Time is the most important issue: i don't have time for any normal raid anymore: if you have a child or an elderly person at home, you simply don't have the time anymore for any kind of raid schedule. Motivation isn't so much of an issue, confidence more likely. Simply because of hordes and hordes of idiots who require aotc for normal raids to even be able to join it. So quick groups aren't even an option, and for everything else is there the time-issue again.

[VinceVega]

Wrong: Tier sets are an major provider of player engagement: having none drop makes the game like WoD for casuals: a shithole of an expansion. Nah, simply go back as you said to the difficulty-level of Throne of Thunder LFR: i think this with the lower item level makes it worth dropping tier-sets. Blizzard already makes tier-sets much more flashier in higher difficulties, so it's a good approach.

Blizzard themself confirmed that removal of Tier-Sets in LFR was one of the biggest mistakes they've made.

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Blizz did not say it was a mistake. They said they can bring them back but the stand with what they said in the first place. Which is still not wrong. You basically lock in 4 pieces which you can not change even if you get another peice 50 iLvl better that that because you cannot break the boni...

I immensly HATED, that i had to run every difficultie until i get the setboni even if i did not need anything else from it anymore.
Removal of Tier sets has made me not care about LFR anymore. Leave it be and fine.
If the Tier sets came back and every raider is forced again in this shit it will be a worse experience for EVERYONE. Raiders are in a bad mood because they have to join LFR. LFR players will get annoyed because the dreaded "tryhards" will be back in their content.
Either make it the WoD approach or make LFR Sets completly disconnected from real raids.... which will still force everyone to run it because you can get the 4 set boni faster in certain circumstances.
Or just make Tier boni trivial. Then nobody would care.

[Djaye]

No it really hasn't. If it made a generation of terrible players then there wouldn't be as many guilds clearing Mythic as there are. All LFR has done is draw the elitist pricks out of the woodwork who feel the need to dictate how other people are supposed to play the game.

this is very amusing coming from the guy who thought gankers and stream snipers should be banned. do you just bathe in hypocrisy?

[Amerissis]

Of course LFR impacts the game negatively for other players, it creates bad players that think they achieved something who then go to trial in real guilds.

Most LFR players will not trial in real guilds, even Blizzard said most LFR players were never raiding before LFR. Also, they're no worse than people who never raided at all. So that very rare case where one LFR player will trial at a real guild and suck, suck it up. Teach them or kick them, that's what trials are for anyway.

[Krothar]

There will always be people not in a raid group who want to experience the raids.

Especially now when major story culminates in a raid.

[TheRevenantHero]

this is very amusing coming from the guy who thought gankers and stream snipers should be banned. do you just bathe in hypocrisy?

Considering working against people in your own faction is a form of griefing, there is no hypocrisy. I get that you are incapable of admitting you're wrong, but come on dude.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

LFR has a place because it has players who regularly participate in it. Some people like playing the game on easy mode. Having easy mode hasn't ruined the millions of other games with an easy mode, and it hasn't ruined WoW either. Players who want to raid more challenging content can do so.

[Relapses]

Wrong: Tier sets are an major provider of player engagement: having none drop makes the game like WoD for casuals: a shithole of an expansion.

Yeah, all five million players unsubscribed because they couldn't get a fucking Tier bonus in the LFR. Real S-Tier detective work there, Watson.

Blizzard themself confirmed that removal of Tier-Sets in LFR was one of the biggest mistakes they've made.

Where did they say this? The fact that they axed Tier sets altogether in BfA kind of indicates that they never really cared that much about Tier in the first place, much less whether it dropped in the LFR. This sounds like exaggerated bullshit to prove your non-existent point that Tier in the LFR is something that's reciprocal to player engagement.

[Ragingheadache]

1. LFR has now been around for 4 full expacs plus Dragon Soul. You would think that by now people would stop demanding it’s removal.

2. I would rather waste my time in LFR with no loot than having some kid tell me that I am not over-geared enough for his normal pug.

[dcc626]

really? after a tier you get a new 4 piece and can use the previous 2 piece if strong. say what you want about tier sets, but they do lock slots if the bonuses are good. i wont be surprised about getting tier back at some point, but i have a feeling we wont be seeing bonuses like before.

im also amused that the same people who complain about borrowed power want tier back. which is....borrowed power.

[Sughs]

You underestimate how many players play at LFR level and take it seriously. I have entered LFR groups that use flask, food, pre pot, etc and talk in raid chat about doing M+5 for the weekly cap like it's the biggest challenge in the game.

[letssee]

lol remove it, delete it from existence

man retail, what a joke..

[Geckoo]

Wrong: Tier sets are an major provider of player engagement

This is quite interesting, because back in WoD LFR had his own generic set and they ended up having to force raiders into LFR with some kind of currency by the end of the expansion. So when we talk about player engagement, are we talking about people who actually want to do LFR or people that feels forced to do LFR?

From my experience, the LFR formula can only work in two different ways: you either have the easiest shit you could imagine with bad loot and nothing a raider could want... or you make it a bit more difficult and then try to force raiders into it so they can carry the group. Bear in mind that a good effort/reward structure is also important.

Time is the most important issue: i don't have time for any normal raid anymore: if you have a child or an elderly person at home, you simply don't have the time anymore for any kind of raid schedule. Motivation isn't so much of an issue, confidence more likely. Simply because of hordes and hordes of idiots who require aotc for normal raids to even be able to join it. So quick groups aren't even an option, and for everything else is there the time-issue again.

I'm of the idea that they should try to encourage smaller communities rather than leaving everything but mythic raiding to a group finder tool. Guilds should be the desired and most used way to experience group content, although of course guilds too need to make changes in how they operate when it comes to normal/heroic raiding.

At the same time, i wonder if dividing the normal raid in clearly defined wings like LFR has could be helpful. Instead of a full 10 boss raid, you'll get 3-4 smaller raids.