Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult in the beginning?

[Kralljin]

Hell yeah they were! it was amazing! when TBC hit the first thing i did was power level an alliance shammy and "gear" him ASAP - i got into any group i wanted without question - it was amazing! I mean, it was terrible, but.....AMAZING!!!!

Quite frankly, i don't get your point.

Are you happy that Shaman no longer has this support niche, or what?

[TJ]

Trinkets and procs are out of control in retail. Trinkets in general have been way too powerful since at least MoP, and Blizz would rather change fundamental game mechanics (like snapshotting) than simply reel item power back in.

When an item proc does half your dps, you know the system is broken.

Man, the trinkets with no icd on proccing were my biggest gripe with the game ever! When TED was implemented in MoP it was just stupid. I remember Azortharion (previous Hunter forum mod) showing a video where he was guaranteed a rank 1 parse, but was super annoyed because the guild messed up and they wiped, and on the opener of the fight TED was almost at 100% up time. The dude was a good player, but that trinket proccing like a madman catapulted anyone's dps sooo far up the charts.

One of my biggest WoW regrets was waiting until Season 8 to switch mains to DK. I never got to try Shadowfrost at its prime.

I think it can take a long time to find "your class" in WoW. I started with Druid, but after playing Hunter that was it. Mained a Hunter for the rest of my time playing, main it in Classic, too, even with subpar dps.

As much as I rag on about Wrath, I'd still rather play it than any expansion that followed. Traipsing about Northrend was fun, and I've mained a DK in every expansion since. I just dislike the fundamental design philosophy shifts that happened during that expansion, because they led in many ways to the problems the game has now.

As far as Classic goes though, I personally feel that Classic leverages the strengths of an MMO better than the more modern incarnations of the game: big open world, lots of players, minimal railroading. Class balance really sucks ass, though, which is a blemish that almost ruins the entire game, and one I hope the devs eventually experiment with once Naxx becomes old hat. TBC, though far from perfect, was a much better game in this regard.

Yeah, Wrath and Northrend were a pretty sick setting. Saying that, as much as I say I love Wrath, I can't wait for TBC. Going to be interesting to see how they implement it (copy chars, new realm, fresh start? etc etc), but overall can't wait. Never got to play TBC as much as I wanted to and this time I won't make that mistake :P (providing they don't severely neuter your account and what you can use from Classic).

Can't agree more with what you say about Classic, that's pretty much why I play it. Even though it's unreal easy and quite unbalanced, the old MMO roots really cement it for me. Awesome game.

I think the system Blizzard devised for building Mythic+ groups is the ideal here: convenient, but not automated. Too much convenience can sometimes be a bad thing though, and lead to outcomes that are detrimental to the game as we've seen with LFR. Players want a lot of things, and it's not always a good idea to actually give them everything they ask for.

The implementation of the Dungeon Finder heavily restricted how Blizzard could subsequently design 5-man content: from then on, almost every dungeon had to be of relatively uniform difficulty, have 3-4 bosses, and be 20-30 minutes long. Any major deviations from this, such as Cata's dungeons at launch, would (and did) cause severe backlash. It's no coincidence that longer 5-man dungeons only came back when Blizz introduced Mythic+ to the game.



The concept of Class/spec-specific utility was almost entirely stripped out in Wrath. The introduction of end-game(ish) 10-man raiding essentially mandated this process, because 10-man raid groups cannot reasonably guarantee the presence of at least one of each class. Most stat buffs & debuffs were given to at least one other class. Hunters' Misdirect was given to Rogues. Shadowpriest mana regen -- the iconic mechanic the entire spec was built around-- was streamlined, nerfed into near-irrelevance, and given to Hunters, Mages, Paladins and bloody Warlocks, of all things. Afaik, the only classes that kept unique utility through Wrath were Shamans (until Cata gave Bloodlust to Mages and Hunters), and Warlocks -- who still to this day have utility that's never been given to another class.

This change in design philosphy was the beginning of the "bring the player, not the class" era of WoW that Blizzard have only just begun trying to reverse.

Not too familiar with retail's system of Mythic+ so can't comment. But yeah, for every good idea from the players there's also 10 bad ones, it's a hard job to sift through all of them and try to decide what to implement. Even though I criticised the devs a lot and still do (to a degree), I will always admit they have a hard job of trying to please the players the game possesses.

Tbh, I don't think it was just the DF that caused the differentials from it afterwards to be received negatively, I think it was also the general facerollness of the 5 mans at the end of the expansion and how people were so used to them. I mean, even 25 heroic raiders did the daily heroic for the badges, they didn't wait for tank pull, careful of mobs, follow tactics etc because they didn't have to, and I think people eventually got sooo used to that philosophy and way of doing 5 mans that the style in Cata was just not going to work. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Cata 5 mans, the difficulty and general fun in them I think was a massive improvement, but a lot of players don't feel the same way about the game that I do. I guess maybe if the 5 mans didn't need to be run by every man and his dog towards the end of the expansion then MAYBE it would've been different? People would run them as a fresh ding and then that would be it.

I quite enjoy bring the player rather than the class (sucks to play Hunter in Classic xD), as it focuses more on skill, but again, I can see your point and both sides of the coin and how it definitely fits into an MMO. It's a tough one for sure.

[OrcsRLame]

Not too familiar with retail's system of Mythic+ so can't comment.

In a nutshell, it's greater rifts from Diablo 3 but with more complexity. Infinite dungeon scaling that is designed to push your characters past their limits. The runs are timed, you need to kill a certain amount of trash and of course all the bosses to get a clear. Deaths remove 5 seconds from the timer and there are also affixes that are on a weekly rotation.

Basically they're dungeons with fuck you difficulty.

[TJ]

In a nutshell, it's greater rifts from Diablo 3 but with more complexity. Infinite dungeon scaling that is designed to push your characters past their limits. The runs are timed, you need to kill a certain amount of trash and of course all the bosses to get a clear. Deaths remove 5 seconds from the timer and there are also affixes that are on a weekly rotation.

Basically they're dungeons with fuck you difficulty.

Not a fan of retail in the slightest, but I will admit that sounds pretty good.

[Pohut]

If your guild is competent...No

If you're guild isn't competent....Yes

By the looks of it around 80%+ guilds in Classic are competent then.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I wonder who will get the corrupted Ashbringer... Always wanted to see that event in person again. Got shown it once in cata.

[crusadernero]

Who cares if its fun?

[Pohut]

Who cares if its fun?

It looks like a lot of people dedicated their lives to the illusion that Classic/Vanilla is/was hard and they just can't handle anything that dispels that.

[crusadernero]

It looks like a lot of people dedicated their lives to the illusion that Classic/Vanilla is/was hard and they just can't handle anything that dispels that.

Well tbh it was probably considered hard 15 years ago. Alot of people back then had wow as the very first MMORPG, the whole genre had to be learned. Over the years people learned the genre, learned the game and the information available for research about anything in the game exploded. Everything you need to know about X/Y is one click away on the web.

There should be zero surprise to people that classic raids gets cleared with ease. I mean, people have been planning this for months, if not years. When you can clear raids like MC & BWL in 1-2 hours, its very painless to gear up for next patch.

[ydraw]

Not a fan of retail in the slightest, but I will admit that sounds pretty good.

It's by far the best feature of modern wow. You can run dungeons as your end game.

[Snowcharm]

Max 3hours for top guilds that farm it on private servers. For the average ones my money is on Thaddius,4H,Raz and KT.

[hulkgor]

Top guilds? Cleared in 1-2 nights.

Average guilds? Progress will last weeks, even months (at 5-6h \ week)

[Pohut]

Top guilds? Cleared in 1-2 nights.

Average guilds? Progress will last weeks, even months (at 5-6h \ week)

No.
Top guilds in under 2 hours.
Average guilds under 5 hours full clear.

[Gref]

You guys are talking about naxx and here we are trying to kill viscidious. that thing ffs, how many pots do you even need to clear it. god damn.
cthun one shotted btw lol

[Cracked]

You guys are talking about naxx and here we are trying to kill viscidious. that thing ffs, how many pots do you even need to clear it. god damn.
cthun one shotted btw lol

Equip NR gear, Coldrage daggers with frost oil, frost wands, use 30+ sappers on the first wave of blobs, pop 1 GNPP before fight and 1 after the first one is gone.. And the fight is impossible to wipe.

[Jurwi]

You guys are talking about naxx and here we are trying to kill viscidious. that thing ffs, how many pots do you even need to clear it. god damn.
cthun one shotted btw lol

I only use one GNPP per Viscidus kill (prepot), don't see much reason for any more than that. Major Mana Potion if mana issues, usually there isn't any. Think it took us like 3 tries to get down. Nuke the thing with frost damage to freeze him, melee spam into shatter, aoe nuke blobs after shatter, repeat. Should go down after 2 shatters max or you really really need to work on your raid DPS.

Shamans keep spamming poison removal totem every single time he does the poison volley to instantly remove it.

[Mazza]

Equip NR gear, Coldrage daggers with frost oil, frost wands, use 30+ sappers on the first wave of blobs, pop 1 GNPP before fight and 1 after the first one is gone.. And the fight is impossible to wipe.

Exactly, Viscidus is a preperation fight... also there are a LOT of consumables that can remove his AOE poison dot. All the first aid ones work and are on seperate cd's for instance.

[Nitros14]

I only use one GNPP per Viscidus kill (prepot), don't see much reason for any more than that. Major Mana Potion if mana issues, usually there isn't any. Think it took us like 3 tries to get down. Nuke the thing with frost damage to freeze him, melee spam into shatter, aoe nuke blobs after shatter, repeat. Should go down after 2 shatters max or you really really need to work on your raid DPS.

Shamans keep spamming poison removal totem every single time he does the poison volley to instantly remove it.

I think the problem for most guilds that aren't composed of pvp-ers or aren't particularly hardcore is most people aren't going to be engineering or drop their professions and level engineering for Viscidus.

[Jurwi]

I think the problem for most guilds that aren't composed of pvp-ers or aren't particularly hardcore is most people aren't going to be engineering or drop their professions and level engineering for Viscidus.

Yea, engineering helps a lot. I think most of our DPSers are using sappers on that fight.

[TrollHunter3000]

A lot of raiding bosses in classic go down fast after they're released. Even the ones that "require" resistance gear. Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult at release? I remember Patchwerk being a simple boss tactics wise, but had a very high gear requirement due to his high health, damage, and short enrage timer. Then there's Sapphiron and the "need" for frost resistance gear. The 4 horsemen required many tanks. I don't expect Kel'thuzad to be much of a problem though.

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