PSA: Old experienced players

[Unholyground]

my rebuttal:
people who ask strangers questions without using all the resources that are available to them are selfish, and judge their time to be more important than others.

i COULD ask a bunch of strangers to do the job for me, and spoon-feed me the infos i want, OR i could just look it up myself. for 99% of the problems a simple google search will get you the answer you need within 30 seconds. i have no problem with people asking questions that require nuance or some deeper understanding, but when people aks in chat: "WHERE IS NPC 3123124?", "use google" is a valid answer.

I have asked after still having trouble finding a vendor from the wowhead searches and what not and people are pretty cool about it, some NPC's are just in strange places and are hard to see. I also do not use add-ons in WoW as I see them mostly as cheating.

[Krakan]

It isn't our responsibility that they are weak only our responsibility to judge and punish them for their weakness.

[Dalheim]

I generally help people if I can.

[Irian]

I do this a lot but it feels like I'm one person attempting to be nice fighting against a wave of douchebaggery.

The WoW community is an insipid mess of jaded assholes and I don't really think there's a way to fix that. I think any game that has gone on for this long and then stagnated will reach this point.

[Dalheim]

How do you know it is only old players being jerks? ...and when do you become a new player?

Whatever you think - yeah..I was helpful in Vanilla and grateful for help. I carried that on over 15 years. Who says that the person who is an asshole in /1 is one of us old guys?



...and because I know how to behave in game, I already hate this thread and your assumption that 99.999 % are assholes.

This is the internet, you can't be a decent human being on the internet!

/s

[Texan Penguin]

I am willing to teach all those who are willing to learn. We were all new once- even if I'm not a top 1% player, I still (almost) know what I'm doing after playing since November 2006 and I feel like I have a responsibility to help the new generation of WoW players. I will direct people to wider resources like Icy Veins or Wowhead, but if they ask for some specific tips I'm willing to pass on my knowledge.

Also...

It isn't our responsibility that they are weak only our responsibility to judge and punish them for their weakness.

Judge and punish? Really? I would suggest that you read that statement out loud and listen to yourself, because to me it sounds like a horrible thing to say.

At a certain point, there needs to be some independent study to improve as a player, and a little tough love perhaps, but you only learn through education and experience, and sometimes a helping hand is the best thing you give someone- not just in gaming, but in life.

Put yourself in the shoes of a new or less experienced player. Would you want to be presented with this kind of attitude?

You were new once. Remember that next time you say something like this.

[Krakan]

I am willing to teach all those who are willing to learn. We were all new once- even if I'm not a top 1% player, I still (almost) know what I'm doing after playing since November 2006 and I feel like I have a responsibility to help the new generation of WoW players. I will direct people to wider resources like Icy Veins or Wowhead, but if they ask for some specific tips I'm willing to pass on my knowledge.

Also...



Judge and punish? Really? I would suggest that you read that statement out loud and listen to yourself, because to me it sounds like a horrible thing to say.

At a certain point, there needs to be some independent study to improve as a player, and a little tough love perhaps, but you only learn through education and experience, and sometimes a helping hand is the best thing you give someone- not just in gaming, but in life.

Put yourself in the shoes of a new or less experienced player. Would you want to be presented with this kind of attitude?

You were new once. Remember that next time you say something like this.

I was self determined and able to fend for myself those who require constant coddling always will. The game does not require another lfr player.

[Tiev]

my rebuttal:
people who ask strangers questions without using all the resources that are available to them are selfish, and judge their time to be more important than others.

i COULD ask a bunch of strangers to do the job for me, and spoon-feed me the infos i want, OR i could just look it up myself. for 99% of the problems a simple google search will get you the answer you need within 30 seconds. i have no problem with people asking questions that require nuance or some deeper understanding, but when people aks in chat: "WHERE IS NPC 3123124?", "use google" is a valid answer.

My rebutal: Some people just want to interact with others, start discussions and chat rather than reading a guide online. Some people also like to answer those questions and discuss. People who don't, have no obligation to answer. That's part of the social aspect of the game.

I'm a reader, I like to be prepared, I like to know encounters, my own tools and be ready for whatever happens, and I do prefer to play with like-minded people for the most part. But there's no inherent problem with people wanting to start discussions or ask questions instead of reading guides either. Just a different play-style that might fit with other people and not us (even though I love answering questions here and there).

I do think there are exceptions to this, though.

Asking "How do I do damage?" feels different to me than "This spell says it does x damage to up to 6 enemies so I should use this on multiple enemies. It has a cast time though, so what do I do if I have to move?".

[Dalheim]

Ignoring the /s - I admit I have been and can be a complete douchebag. A history of infractions on this forum testifies to it...so there is that...but I am clean for quite some time now ....trying to be better....but I always have been nice to ppl in game.

Well, depends on why, I suppose?

Was it directed towards someone being a douchenozzle? Justified. :P

[Lodreh]

Generally, if it's a straight forward question I'll just answer it... if it's a more complicated question I'll point to WoW Head. Teach a man to fish and all that.

[Pony Soldier]

I legitimately enjoy helping out new players as best as I can as long as they don't take advantage of it and start asking me to do everything for them.

It's really annoying whenever I see something like a new player asking a question in general or trade chat and some douchebag would just say something like "just google it it's not that hard". I mean if you don't know the answer to the question then don't say anything or direct them to a place where they could search it up without being a total dick about it but if you do just tell them.

It's just one of the most annoying things when someone knows the answer to something and they're just like "google it" as if they just couldn't be bothered to take 30 seconds out of their day to type a few words to help someone.

[T-34]

I legitimately enjoy helping out new players as best as I can as long as they don't take advantage of it and start asking me to do everything for them.

It's really annoying whenever I see something like a new player asking a question in general or trade chat and some douchebag would just say something like "just google it it's not that hard". I mean if you don't know the answer to the question then don't say anything or direct them to a place where they could search it up without being a total dick about it but if you do just tell them.

It's just one of the most annoying things when someone knows the answer to something and they're just like "google it" as if they just couldn't be bothered to take 30 seconds out of their day to type a few words to help someone.

But they are directing them to a better place to find knowledge than trade and general. Google is far superior to trade and general chat.
A person who is asking something that they themselves could have found out by making a simple search in google might be a new player, but they are mainly toxic dickish douchebags that expect other people to do stuff for them and have no respect for other peoples time.

[Pony Soldier]

But they are directing them to a better place to find knowledge than trade and general. Google is far superior to trade and general chat.
A person who is asking something that they themselves could have found out by making a simple search in google might be a new player, but they are mainly toxic dickish douchebags that expect other people to do stuff for them and have no respect for other peoples time.

I get that but my point is what is so wrong with just asking fellow players for help? I don't get why people get so upset at other people asking for help. Maybe somebody is on that could just answer the question right then and there instead of searching for it. Are they not allowed to ask anything? Sometimes, a lot of times, you get better answers and you understand more from directly talking to someone who knows a lot about the game rather than reading a generalized answer online.

New players may not even know what to even look for. Maybe they already searched on Google and couldn't find anything so they resort to asking in-game players to see if anybody could help. Imagine how annoying it would be being a new player with no knowledge of anything about the game not being able to find anything on Google and asking chat for help and only getting "google it" as your answer. But no, fuck that guy right?

[Nynax]

It's one of the BEST responses you can give, and it's precisely BECAUSE it's abrasive and humiliating - because that exposes that someone wasn't willing to even put the smallest amount of effort into their question.

Because that's not going to add to the sense of a toxic environment at all.

But they are directing them to a better place to find knowledge than trade and general. Google is far superior to trade and general chat.
A person who is asking something that they themselves could have found out by making a simple search in google might be a new player, but they are mainly toxic dickish douchebags that expect other people to do stuff for them and have no respect for other peoples time.

Imagine a customer goes into a hardware store because they need screws to fix a wood chair back home. Once in the store they are confused by the different kinds of wood screws available so they ask an employee fo a quick tip. Said employee, who can't be bothered atm, responds with "use google." How do you think that customer is going to rate that stores customer experience?

Could they have easily googled the question from their phone? yes.
Would google have provided extensive and detailed information? yes.
Did the refusal to help and expectation to "figure it out yourself" add to a sense of community and support? No fucking way.

That's essentially what happens to new players. It doesn't matter what you think is "better" fast and efficient. What matters is that it comes across as dismissive and feels like shit to a person just trying to reach out. The message is "don't ask for help, no one cares."

At the very least, add a "if you still have questions, /w me."

[T-34]

Because that's not going to add to the sense of a toxic environment at all.



Imagine a customer goes into a hardware store because they need screws to fix a wood chair back home. Once in the store they are confused by the different kinds of wood screws available so they ask an employee fo a quick tip. Said employee, who can't be bothered atm, responds with "use google." How do you think that customer is going to rate that stores customer experience?

Could they have easily googled the question from their phone? yes.
Would google have provided extensive and detailed information? yes.
Did the refusal to help and expectation to "figure it out yourself" add to a sense of community and support? No fucking way.

That's essentially what happens to new players. It doesn't matter what you think is "better" fast and efficient. What matters is that it comes across as dismissive and feels like shit to a person just trying to reach out. The message is "don't ask for help, no one cares."

At the very least, add a "if you still have questions, /w me."

I am not an employee, I am a player. An employee in a store is paid to be helpful and should be fired if he isn't. I am not paid to be helpful in WoW.
I always help people that do the minimum to help themselves and respect my time. People who are lazy, toxic and disrespectful reap what they sow.
To give an example:
Question 1: "'What mage spec does most dps". The only answer to such a question is "google it", because that person couldn't be arsed to do a basic search = lazy and toxic
Question 2: "Guide 1 says Fire, but guide 2 says Frost. I couldn't find anything that explains why they are different". That person I would help if I could, because that person has proven that he has a functioning brain and isn't lazy. I would even spend quite a lot of time helping that person.

And "community" for me is interacting with normal and non-toxic people. "Community" for me isn't helping/carrying lazy and toxic people. They should wallow in the mud with all the other toxic and lazy players.

[Markerr]

Interesting thread!

[msdos]

I like being nice to people on WoW, they don't expect it.

Back in the day I used to run lowbies through dungeons when I got bored because it actually meant something to them. Interacting with lowbies was a bigger deal back in the day because it took people longer to level, the gear was way worse originally.. Those were the days.

[SoundOfGuns]

I always respond and try to help. Im a dick but not an asshole.

[Bigcountry11782]

As a veteran (played since wrath) I've already unsub because of this, and I'm not even a new player. Just a ex-raider that wants to relax at nights doing a dungeon or a bg. But it's not possible. Because if you ask something, you will be treated like shit. No room for errors, even in heroic dungeons (you know, you can be drunk/wasted when playing)

lol wrath baby