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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvern View Post
    I would like to discuss the ''new'' covenant system thats coming soon to us in the new Shadowlands expansion.
    As a player i like to play my character to the best of my knowledge and i enjoy getting as strong as possible.

    While reading guides about the covenants for mages i have come to the conclusion that the only viable option for PvE are the ''Kyrians''.
    I made this conclusion from reading a mage class post for shadowlands from ''Preheat'' a fire mage player:
    Iam not allowed to link yet its called: ''Fire Mage State on Shadowlands Alpha - Spell Changes, Covenant Abilities, and Combustion''

    Now let me state why iam worried and what i would like to know: Iam worried i won't have a choice in choosing which covenant i will be able to play. While i was looking forward to play maldraxxus i will choose Kyrian if this is the only viable PvE option, because i enjoy optimalisation. It seems iam at a crossroads. How do you guys feel about this and the balance around covenant?

    Ps: i will only have time for 1 character (my main) in shadowlands, people with alts have more options in experiencing all the covenants.
    Dunno. May be at the end players should be able to make wrong choices, even if it hurts their gaming experience and can potentially drive them away from game? Back in WotLK I wanted to play Enh Shamans, but they were complete crap. Should I have been playing OP Paladins instead? Or should Blizzard have balanced all classes to be 100% equal? Or should they have split power and visual choices, like choosing class means choosing visual effects and spell names, but powers are chosen separately?

    Removing ability to make wrong choice, like removing ability to choose wrong armor type or weapon type - is one of that things, that killed spirit of this game.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvern View Post
    I would like to discuss the ''new'' covenant system thats coming soon to us in the new Shadowlands expansion.
    As a player i like to play my character to the best of my knowledge and i enjoy getting as strong as possible.

    While reading guides about the covenants for mages i have come to the conclusion that the only viable option for PvE are the ''Kyrians''.
    I made this conclusion from reading a mage class post for shadowlands from ''Preheat'' a fire mage player:
    Iam not allowed to link yet its called: ''Fire Mage State on Shadowlands Alpha - Spell Changes, Covenant Abilities, and Combustion''

    Now let me state why iam worried and what i would like to know: Iam worried i won't have a choice in choosing which covenant i will be able to play. While i was looking forward to play maldraxxus i will choose Kyrian if this is the only viable PvE option, because i enjoy optimalisation. It seems iam at a crossroads. How do you guys feel about this and the balance around covenant?

    Ps: i will only have time for 1 character (my main) in shadowlands, people with alts have more options in experiencing all the covenants.
    You're right. You'll be forced to pick one of them and if you pick the wrong one, you'll be way worse than players that picked the right one.
    Not letting people respec is a huge mistake and it'll most likely make an expansion that looks really cool, be just worthless and boring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    Ok firstly, a talent you can easily swap so it’s a bad example.... if you’re using an AOE talent on trash then it’s not a dead button.

    And secondly, to answer your question, yes, yes there are. Particularly abilities which don’t work across all specs of a class. What’s good for healing becomes a dead button when you DPS as it’s not worth the GCD, or it’s not worth interrupting your rotation to channel because it doesn’t synergise with any of your abilities. Unlike a talent, it’s locked in for all your specs.

    Other abilities also have a very obvious PVP focus. If you don’t PVP, then it’s a dead ability... because again, it’s not a talent you can simply spec out of. I’m sure the opposite is also true for PVPers.

    If Covenant abilities were as simple as AOE or ST, you might have a point. But they aren’t.
    No, covenants and soulbinds are just talents. talents you can't respec. If you're serious about the game you might very well be forced to have 2, 3 or even 4 different characters of the same class.

  3. #63
    You should play with friends if you want to play for RP reasons.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    Ok firstly, a talent you can easily swap so it’s a bad example.... if you’re using an AOE talent on trash then it’s not a dead button.
    in M+ you cant change them, and AOE talent is usualy useless on boss, so are most AOE, pvp focused or as you mention healing abilities for dps, there is virtualy no scenario in the whole game where you could use all your abilities without some of them being complete waste of GCD

  5. #65
    i'm just kinda bummed that the only combat ability that doesn't seem totally meh is in a covenant i'm not interested in. doesn't help that their signature ability seems kind of crappy also.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    True, but I'd also prefer to not have a dead button on my bar because I chose my Covenant for Aesthetic reasons.

    Literally, for some specs, their Covenant ability isn't worth wasting a GCD (or channel time) on, while other abilities are clearly built for PvP (or PvE) and have little to no use in the other.
    If Blizzard can sort those issues out then great, but so far they seem very reluctant to re-design any of the abilities (except for the Paladin Night Fae one iirc).
    Yeah, some of the covenant abilities are essentially raw dps, which I think they should have avoided. But if they kill the damage of some abilities to bring them more in line with the utility centric abilities, that would just devalue them too much. Worse still are abilities that bring a synergy in the spec like Prot Pally Kyrian or Rogue night fae with mantle.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    in M+ you cant change them, and AOE talent is usualy useless on boss, so are most AOE, pvp focused or as you mention healing abilities for dps, there is virtualy no scenario in the whole game where you could use all your abilities without some of them being complete waste of GCD
    Again, you still use those AOE talents on trash in your M+ dungeon... which is often the real boss anyway. That’s why you spec for AOE/Cleave in M+ most weeks. You can then respec that talent after your dungeon for raiding, or PVP or whatever.

    If you chose a “Dead talent” for your entire M+ run then I’m not sure what to say... unless that whole row is useless in which case gg Blizzard.

    I did not mention healing abilities for DPS. I said there are covenant abilities which are good for your healing spec but are dead buttons for your DPS spec because Blizzard have tried to make these abilities class specific not spec specific.

  8. #68
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I particularly liked the "just" part there.

    There is no "just", this is how it's going to be and you better wake up and smell the reality. At the very most, what I DO expect them to do is offer a "multispec" somewhere in 9.2 to allow to switch between 2 or more covenants on the flight.
    It could even make sense lore-wise sort of. Lead the narrative to us uniting the shadowlands being a champion of more than one covenant as time goes on.
    S.H.

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