Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny Poisoned

[Gaaz]

Yeah, no, nothing you said has any evidence in the real world. And Brexit would have nothing to do with the attack, since Navalny was in RUSSIA when he was poisoned. And I was thinking of Skripal for the first attack, there have been so many that Putin has tried to murder recently, it is hard to keep them all strait.

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So, you don't have any rationalizations for your claim, which Navalny has no connection to, and you call others names? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

I would not want to offend anyone, but try to read more carefully. I am not connecting Navalny and Brexit in any shape or form. Speaking of evidence, there is no hard evidence, besides obligatory "confidential sources" that it was Russia behind those attacks, is there? I mean, you have not read or seen any direct proof have you? And you have not seen and heard from any person with direct knowledge of the proof in either of the cases, have you? Do you really trust politicians to tell you these things. Personally - I do not. And all actual practitioners of science, like the abovementioned Dr Busby, are either silent on the matter, telling that they have no proof either way, or paint a completely different picture. Not to point fingers, but some politicians committed far worse things than poisoning a guy before an important election. Nixon even did bombing runs to prevent peace talks for example, Russians did the Winter War in 1939 , Israeli did the Lavon Affair, UK did the 1957 Syria invasion along with the CIA. This WMD charade is not unique, and is far more widespread. Therefore, personally, until I see a direct proof, or at least an expert who is unaffiliated and is neutral, I consider all sides suspect. Especially those that have direct gain. "Cui bono?" as they say.
Also, my rationalization is profit and economic gain. The rationalization behind Russia doing these things besides the usual trope of "Russia bad" escapes me at the moment. Especially considering enormous sums of money on the line, as well as far easier methods of killing Navalny if Putin really wanted him dead. I mean, does someone have a suspicion that Russia stopped producing 5.45 ammunition and they can not spare a bullet? Come on!

[Pann]

Ahh yes, totes obvs...in saying that I wouldn't discount Putin being one of BoJo's inspirations tbh. If Trump can make his list then it stands to reason that someone who is actually good at their job cou.....nope scratch that, you've seen our gov in action, being effective isn't on their radar.

Oh you!

Wait a sec... BoJo... Boris Johnson... BORIS! Johnson! Don't you see? His real name is Alexander but he chooses to go by Boris and we all know that Boris is a Russian name! Now it's all falling into place!

It's like that Guppy business all over again!

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I would not want to offend anyone, but try to read more carefully. I am not connecting Navalny and Brexit in any shape or form.

You mean apart from that time when you wrote "Is the idea of a "scapegoat" is a foreign concept to US and UK foreign policies? [...]As for UK, remember the small thing called Brexit?"?

[postman1782]

I would not want to offend anyone, but try to read more carefully. I am not connecting Navalny and Brexit in any shape or form. Speaking of evidence, there is no hard evidence, besides obligatory "confidential sources" that it was Russia behind those attacks, is there? I mean, you have not read or seen any direct proof have you? And you have not seen and heard from any person with direct knowledge of the proof in either of the cases, have you? Do you really trust politicians to tell you these things. Personally - I do not. And all actual practitioners of science, like the abovementioned Dr Busby, are either silent on the matter, telling that they have no proof either way, or paint a completely different picture. Not to point fingers, but some politicians committed far worse things than poisoning a guy before an important election. Nixon even did bombing runs to prevent peace talks for example, Russians did the Winter War in 1939 , Israeli did the Lavon Affair, UK did the 1957 Syria invasion along with the CIA. This WMD charade is not unique, and is far more widespread. Therefore, personally, until I see a direct proof, or at least an expert who is unaffiliated and is neutral, I consider all sides suspect. Especially those that have direct gain. "Cui bono?" as they say.
Also, my rationalization is profit and economic gain. The rationalization behind Russia doing these things besides the usual trope of "Russia bad" escapes me at the moment. Especially considering enormous sums of money on the line, as well as far easier methods of killing Navalny if Putin really wanted him dead. I mean, does someone have a suspicion that Russia stopped producing 5.45 ammunition and they can not spare a bullet? Come on!

Except you alluded to Brexit and Navalny connections. When he had nothing to do with Brexit, and that Navalny was in Germany, not the UK.

And nothing else you said had anything to actually do with the topic at hand.

[Easo]

I must confess I am really curious how this could in any way be linked to the UK because of Brexit.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Just like most other conspiracy theories.

[Kronik85]

Oh you!

Wait a sec... BoJo... Boris Johnson... BORIS! Johnson! Don't you see? His real name is Alexander but he chooses to go by Boris and we all know that Boris is a Russian name! Now it's all falling into place!

It's like that Guppy business all over again.

On one hand I want to engage with the whimsy and the fun you are laying up. On the other there is all that Russian money being pumped into the Conservative party

WHY YOU MAKE ME SO CONFLICTED!?

[Gaaz]

Ahh yes, totes obvs...in saying that I wouldn't discount Putin being one of BoJo's inspirations tbh. If Trump can make his list then it stands to reason that someone who is actually good at their job cou.....nope scratch that, you've seen our gov in action, being effective isn't on their radar.

No idea what governmant you are talking about, but it does not matter. Basically all governments with a bit of "global influencer wannabe" syndrome have one thing in common in my opinion - a total and absolute disregard for human lives and suffering. Sadly, I would be an idiot not to consider that even though most are akin to coke nosed bloodthirsty maniacs, they do have a certain measure of intelligence and practicality. Shooting yourself in the foot obviously is not something that an ex KGB agent would do. If I would want to kill, I do not know, a neighbor's dog that is barking at 3 in the morning (hell no, I love dogs, but still), I would not threaten my neighbor to kill his dog, and then the following day take my honorary gun from when I served in the military, load it with hand made nickel case bullets it came with, shoot the poor creature and leave the brass on the ground near the body. Does that make sense?

[Pann]

On one hand I want to engage with the whimsy and the fun you are laying up. On the other there is all that Russian money being pumped into the Conservative party

WHY YOU MAKE ME SO CONFLICTED!?

Once your eyes have been opened...

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Oh look! There he is again totally not implying the thing he never said!

It's a real bummer when that happens.

Jesus Christ! The amount of metaphors in there - it's like Eric Cantona on acid.

[Gaaz]

Except you alluded to Brexit and Navalny connections. When he had nothing to do with Brexit, and that Navalny was in Germany, not the UK.

And nothing else you said had anything to actually do with the topic at hand.

Again - reading comprehension. I did not connect Navalny to Brexit. If you remember, there was another very similar poisoning in Britain, in Salisbury. Almost identical scenario just outside UK's chemical weapon plants. Both cases share many similarities, including lack of evidence from neutral parties, classified sources, lack of motive etc. Let me be absolutely clear, in case your reading comprehension fails again - I make a connection between Scripal and Navalny cases, not between Brexit and Navalny. Because there is no connection that I can see between Brexit and Navalny. It does not mean that there are no similarities between Scripal and Navalny - both had practically no value for Russia, both posed no threat to Russia, both could have been killed in Russia by far easier methods and with much less suspicion. Like for example journalist Buzina in Ukraine - anyone remembers him? I thought not. On the other hand, some parties were at a significant gain due to these killings. Do you really want me to spell out why a strained relationship between Germany and Russia RIGHT NOW would harm them individually, but spell a huge profit for some other countries?

[postman1782]

Again - reading comprehension. I did not connect Navalny to Brexit. If you remember, there was another very similar poisoning in Britain, in Salisbury. Almost identical scenario just outside UK's chemical weapon plants. Both cases share many similarities, including lack of evidence from neutral parties, classified sources, lack of motive etc. Let me be absolutely clear, in case your reading comprehension fails again - I make a connection between Scripal and Navalny cases, not between Brexit and Navalny. Becaus there is no connection that I can see between Brexit and Navalny. It does not mean that there are no similarities between Scripal and Navalny - both had practically no value for Russia, both posed no threat to Russia, both could have been killed in Russia by far easier methods and with much less suspicion. Like for example journalist Buzina in Ukraine - anyone remembers him? I thought not. On the other hand, some parties were at a significant gain due to these killings. Do you really want me to spell out why a strained relationship between Germany and Russia RIGHT NOW would harm them individually, but spell a huge profit for some other countries?

No, there is no reading comprehension problem here, you are trying to pigeonhole something into this that has nothing to do with it.

[jonnysensible]

Lads in exactly 23 more pages this post will make sense given the trajectory of this thread :


Brexit did 9/11.

[Gaaz]

No, there is no reading comprehension problem here, you are trying to pigeonhole something into this that has nothing to do with it.

Give me a direct quote of something that I have said that you consider pigeonholing and irrelevant to the current case.

[postman1782]

Give me a direct quote of something that I have said that you consider pigeonholing and irrelevant to the current case.

You think this has something to do with Brexit, it doesn't. Anything else you want to add?

[Gaaz]

You think this has something to do with Brexit, it doesn't. Anything else you want to add?

WTF? Give me a quote when I said that! Are you delusional? I even said directly that I do not make such connection. Literally:

Let me be absolutely clear, in case your reading comprehension fails again - I make a connection between Scripal and Navalny cases, not between Brexit and Navalny.

Dude, you need help.

[postman1782]

WTF? Give me a quote when I said that! Are you delusional? I even said directly that I do not make such connection. Literally:

Dude, you need help.

Keep trying.

[Pann]

WTF? Give me a quote when I said that! Are you delusional? I even said directly that I do not make such connection. Literally:

Dude, you need help.

Uhm...

You was asked, in post #290, " What would the UK gain by poisoning this guy?"

to which you replied in post #291 "As for UK, remember the small thing called Brexit? It was happening at the same time, and the notion that people go unchecked through borders played quite a role in what basically was a 49-51% split."

Do you have trouble remembering what you wrote or something?

[Gaaz]

Keep trying.

I do not need to. You fail so hard, I am starting to question your ability to register on this forum by yourself.

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Uhm...

You was asked, in post #290, " What would the UK gain by poisoning this guy?"

to which you replied in post #291 "As for UK, remember the small thing called Brexit? It was happening at the same time, and the notion that people go unchecked through borders played quite a role in what basically was a 49-51% split."

Do you have trouble remembering what you wrote or something?

I was alluding to the Scripal case and the idea of a scapegoat. I might have phrased that more clearly, but really, is that the only thing that can be deduced from it?

[postman1782]

Uhm...

You was asked, in post #290, " What would the UK gain by poisoning this guy?"

to which you replied in post #291 "As for UK, remember the small thing called Brexit? It was happening at the same time, and the notion that people go unchecked through borders played quite a role in what basically was a 49-51% split."

Do you have trouble remembering what you wrote or something?

Of course he does. Which is why we can see him backpedaling so far that he has orbited the planet at least once.

[Pann]

I was alluding to the Scripal case.

Ah. Now I understand... I often make the same mistake myself and type Brexit when what I meant to write is Skripal. It's most embarrassing.

But now you've cleared that up I can see that you were indeed talking about the Skripals, the mention of unchecked borders playing a role makes it obvious.

I don't know how I missed that why I didn't realise earlier!

[Kronik85]

No idea what governmant you are talking about, but it does not matter. Basically all governments with a bit of "global influencer wannabe" syndrome have one thing in common in my opinion - a total and absolute disregard for human lives and suffering. Sadly, I would be an idiot not to consider that even though most are akin to coke nosed bloodthirsty maniacs, they do have a certain measure of intelligence and practicality. Shooting yourself in the foot obviously is not something that an ex KGB agent would do. If I would want to kill, I do not know, a neighbor's dog that is barking at 3 in the morning (hell no, I love dogs, but still), I would not threaten my neighbor to kill his dog, and then the following day take my honorary gun from when I served in the military, load it with hand made nickel case bullets it came with, shoot the poor creature and leave the brass on the ground near the body. Does that make sense?

This is the only reply you get because you aren't worth the time but because I want to illustrate the actual point of these poisonings. Putin doesn't care whether they are lethal or not, they don't have to be lethal to make the point, he's saying he doesn't tolerate pretenders to the crown or challenges to his authority and in that goal it doesn't matter whether the target dies or not, only that he could reach them.

[Gaaz]

Of course he does. Which is why we can see him backpedaling so far that he has orbited the planet at least once.

Please show us on this doll where an evil Brexit touched you... I already stated several times that I make no such connection. It was never my intention to make such connection, there is no possible connection as far as I am concerned, considering these events are several years apart. Is that clear? Or do you still think that I think these events are connected? How many times do I need to repeat that?