Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny Poisoned

[eschatological]

The problem is the old USSR was made a permanent member of the UNSC with veto power, as sort of a Cold War detente between it and the U.S. So anything from the UN won't be more than General Assembly condemnations of their behavior, because their "binding" resolutions from the Security Council are hampered by having literal bad faith actors in positions of such power. Just another reason why there should be 1) no veto power in the SC, or at least require a majority to veto of the five, or 2) the permanent members should be abolished, and it should be straight up-and-down votes in the SC, and everyone rotates on the SC.

Sanctions are always an imperfect solution. As we saw in Iraq, it makes authoritarians kleptocrats, who just steal constantly to support themselves, at the cost of massive harm to the civilian population. I have no doubt Putin would do the same as Saddam under much stricter sanctions. It also doesn't help that we can't really enforce sanctions in that part of the world, as we have very few friends in Central and East Asia who can help enforce such sanctions on Russia. Who's gonna help us do that? China? Where are our closest bases, Kandahar, and even the Afghans don't want us there?

[Shalcker]

Shocker the Russian plant is defending a murderous president.

Anyone who thinks it is "power play by Kremlin that strikes fear into hearts of their foes" is delusional.

And if someone in Kremlin did it then they are delusional as well.

[Breccia]

Anyone who thinks

Sorry to interrupt, but you will want to hear this: Germany confirms it was poison, not heavy drinking.

[Shalcker]

Sorry to interrupt, but you will want to hear this: Germany confirms it was poison, not heavy drinking.

Are they going to provide him new identity to save him from evil GRU just like with Skripals before that?

(which would be proving Kremlin's adjacent people talking point that he was Western agent all along)

[Breccia]

Are they

Sorry to interrupt again, I forgot to mention: it was novichok. Yes, the same stuff as last time. You probably wanted to know it was the same poison, not food poisoning, that was use the last time.

[Levelfive]

"The West are really dumb to think that using the same old shit again will work".

Others are a perfect match for some of the "content" from Russian interwebs. Especially the one about drinking, that one is repeated often.
P.S.
Ok, to be honest, the report has to be public and be presented to Russia too, on official level. Unless it is fake there is no reason NOT to do it.

As I recall, Russia was pretend-mad (or real-mad, who knows or cares) at England over not being allowed to participate in their investigation of the Skripal Novichok poisoning--that didn't mean England's investigation was "fake," it just meant they weren't dumb. I think it's generally wise for countries to keep their own counsel and follow their own timelines when it comes to Russia and their poisonings.

[Felya]

pwhich would be proving Kremlin's adjacent people talking point that he was Western agent all along

How is Anna Chapman doing?

[Jastall]

Are they going to provide him new identity to save him from evil GRU just like with Skripals before that?

(which would be proving Kremlin's adjacent people talking point that he was Western agent all along)

I see the talking point swiftly moved from "didn't do it, honest!" to "well he probably deserved it anyway".

[cubby]

I see the talking point swiftly moved from "didn't do it, honest!" to "well he probably deserved it anyway".

Lil Shalckie has a pretty transparent script he runs through with each of Comrade Putin's exposed crimes. He's on Phase 4 at the moment, with just "moving on" left.

The facts of this poisoning are laughably clear. Putin is assassinating people who disagree with him. And on a wildly related note, Trump is watching with envy.

[Shalcker]

I see the talking point swiftly moved from "didn't do it, honest!" to "well he probably deserved it anyway".

There is no good reason to do it known so far.

The previous case of poisoning involved GRU and clear defector, so it's hard not to make analogy. It doesn't have to follow same script obviously if "this time it's different".

[Specialka]

Right, the message where they go against their own laws by letting Navalny get to Germany despite active law enforcement actions going on against him (which technically bars him from leaving the country)...

The message that they are both afraid of international pressures by releasing him and then incompetent by opening themselves up for perfectly predictable poisoning allegations again? That message?

If they wanted message of strength they needed to keep him in Russia. It's not like results would be any different. Especially if they actually poisoned him.

I do no agree with you. Poisoning him then sending him abroad so the poison can be identified send the message : " We are not afraid of you, we can do whatever we want and you can't stop us". It also sends the message to his opposition :" that is the fate that is waiting for you".

[Shalcker]

I do no agree with you. Poisoning him then sending him abroad so the poison can be identified send the message : " We are not afraid of you, we can do whatever we want and you can't stop us". It also sends the message to his opposition :" that is the fate that is waiting for you".

Everyone is already aware of that internally, there is no point of underlining it for international community specifically.

[Specialka]

Everyone is already aware of that internally, there is no point of underlining it for international community specifically.

Who has access to Novichok anyway ? I mean, in Russia, nothing is happening without the Kremlin approval. I think the main message was for internal russian policy. Just sending a message to political opponents, and showing russian population who is the strongest man in russia.

[Shalcker]

Who has access to Novichok anyway ? I mean, in Russia, nothing is happening without the Kremlin approval.

You're immensely overstating "Kremlin control". No, plenty of things happen without approval, or with approval after the fact.

I think the main message was for internal russian policy. Just sending a message to political opponents, and showing russian population who is the strongest man in russia.

Then, again, they shouldn't have let him out (which they had every right to). That move makes no sense from intimidation perspective.

[Specialka]

You're immensely overstating "Kremlin control". No, plenty of things happen without approval, or with approval after the fact.

Then, again, they shouldn't have let him out (which they had every right to). That move makes no sense from intimidation perspective.

Yes it does since as long as he was in the russian hopistal, it was not poisoning. They let him out so the Novichok would be identified. It is not like someone forced them to allow him to be moved to Germany. They let him out willingly and on purpose.

[Shalcker]

Yes it does since as long as he was in the russian hopistal, it was not poisoning. They let him out so the Novichok would be identified. It is not like someone forced them to allow him to be moved to Germany. They let him out willingly and on purpose.

They could have just identified it themselves then.

Then main TV channels would spin it as Western plot, and opposition would say it was Kremlin again - absolutely no different from current situation from domestic perspective.

What is the purpose of getting Merkel to do the announcement?

[Azhran]

They could have just identified it themselves then.

Then main TV channels would spin it as Western plot, and opposition would say it was Kremlin again - absolutely no different from current situation from domestic perspective.

What is the purpose of getting Merkel to do the announcement?

So because you can't think of the why, it can't be true? That seems like a rather high bar to set...

[Specialka]

They could have just identified it themselves then.

Then main TV channels would spin it as Western plot, and opposition would say it was Kremlin again - absolutely no different from current situation from domestic perspective.

What is the purpose of getting Merkel to do the announcement?

Because if they ID it themselves, there would be no miskate about it and it would be clear that it was Russia government that poisoned him since they are the only one having access to it (so how could it be a western plot in that case). Since it is the "West" that declared it and ID it, it can be frame on news media in Russia as a Western Plot (and I am pretty sure it is already the case).

[Shalcker]

So because you can't think of the why, it can't be true? That seems like a rather high bar to set...

I'm just saying "Kremlin did it" makes no sense.

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Because if they ID it themselves, there would be no miskate about it and it would be clear that it was Russia government that poisoned him since they are the only one having access to it (so how could it be a western plot in that case). Since it is the "West" that declared it and ID it, it can be frame on news media in Russia as a Western Plot (and I am pretty sure it is already the case).

No, they claimed that West had it all along (and even Porton Down confirmed that they had analytical samples), so absolutely nothing would change if they declared it themselves.

[Specialka]

I'm just saying "Kremlin did it" makes no sense.

- - - Updated - - -

No, they claimed that West had it all along (and even Porton Down confirmed that they had analytical samples), so absolutely nothing would change if they declared it themselves.

If they declared it themselves, the whole Western Plot has less 'weight' than if it is the West accusing them of using Novichok so they can play the victim (once again).