To people complaining about Retcons in WoW

[TheFirstOnes]

Allow me to introduce you to:

-The First War retcons

-Second War retcons

-Illidan retcons in TBC

-The Old Gods and their entire existence

-Sargeras' entire backstory

-The Draenei

-The Demons from WC2/WC3 to TBC

-The Void's story

-Northrend going from all undead and icey to...well...y'know

And so much more

[Usernameforforums]

Imagine a Northrend that was completely covered in snow, 100%... Honestly, it would get kinda boring.


The story has always pretty much been a shambled mess that hasnt been coherent even once.

Its not worth investing time into when the story that you currently know is just gonna be changed. Thats a bad thing.

Retcons can be good but just about every retcon in wow makes the story worse.

[Unholyground]

Yes, if you want an mmo to keep going you have no choice but to edit the lore. Many people just don't like change in the story and that is reflected in the way people are in real life as most people when set into a routine do not like it changed.

[Maljinwo]

The problem aren't the retcon themselves

It's the quantity and the quality of retcons that we are experiencing

[Darkeon]

Retcons are suddenly okay because there have been retcon throughout the ages.

[McNeil]

People don't usually complain about retcons if it doesn't hurt the original material all that much or even makes it better. People haven't forgiven the draenei retcon and Metzen even had to admit that it was a mistake. Illidan wasn't retconned that much in TBC, he was going through a villainous route in WC3 and in TBC it made him look like he is just holding off a possible Legion attack on the Temple while he is still soaking after his defeat to Arthas. If anything the retcons from Legion are way worse.

We've never actually seen all of Northrend either. Most of the time we have seen Arthas in Northrend he was just near the coast which is portrayed in WoW, and after traveling through Azjol-Nerub he was fighting insnow because the Scourge had yet to build their citadel and blight the rest of the zone.

[TheFirstOnes]

Retcons are suddenly okay because there have been retcon throughout the ages.

My argument was more towards the idea that people are complaining about them now, despite them existing since the very beginning. Mind you, I'm not saying any of them are good or bad. I just feel the criticisms toward retcons currently feel extremely weird, especially now...

[Combatbutler]

My argument was more towards the idea that people are complaining about them now, despite them existing since the very beginning. Mind you, I'm not saying any of them are good or bad. I just feel the criticisms toward retcons currently feel extremely weird, especially now...

People have been complaining about retcons for ages

[Mehrunes]

My argument was more towards the idea that people are complaining about them now, despite them existing since the very beginning. Mind you, I'm not saying any of them are good or bad. I just feel the criticisms toward retcons currently feel extremely weird, especially now...

But people aren't complaining about them just now. The retcon bonanza in Knaak's War of the Ancients trilogy was one of the main points of criticism, for example. And that series is over 16 years old now.

[RCA]

It's always fun to look through the old manuals of games (just to see the very beginning of this long progression). Time & People will change just about anything for just about any reason you can think of.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Warcraft:_..._Humans_manual

Wouldn't the people who complain about retcons already know about these, or you just trying to say they're everywhere?

[Traveler Voltin]

rectons can be good but they can also be bad.
blizzard rarely makes good ones.

[Gaidax]

I'm just amused about everyone and their mothers screeching "retcon" at just about everything.

/shrug

[Darkeon]

My argument was more towards the idea that people are complaining about them now, despite them existing since the very beginning. Mind you, I'm not saying any of them are good or bad. I just feel the criticisms toward retcons currently feel extremely weird, especially now...

Ok, I do see your point.

[Tiwack]

The story has always been a vehicle for the videogame, it's secondary and thus adaptable, much more so than your regular story driven book- or tv-series. Whenever a fictitious universe manages to go the distance there will always be small things changed or neglected and forgotten about. It's par for the course and reminders that these are just stories that are as flawed as the humans that created them.

Would you rather have authors that admit they wrote themselves into a corner and thus there'll be no more books, merely spin-offs in the same universe, or accept that there be retcons so that the saga continues?

[LemonDemonGirl]

*Looks at WoD* There's.... also AUs too

And I'm very happy Bwonsamdi was a former mortal. Though him playing around with Mueh'zala is kinda weird

Also, the pretty much retconed Shadows of the Horde but yeah

[klogaroth]

People have cared about retcons and inconsistencies for ages. Why do you think one of the most famous Blizzcon questions is someone pointing out an inconsistency??

[Alteiry]

Allow me to introduce you to:

-The First War retcons

-Second War retcons

-Illidan retcons in TBC

-The Old Gods and their entire existence

-Sargeras' entire backstory

-The Draenei

-The Demons from WC2/WC3 to TBC

-The Void's story

-Northrend going from all undead and icey to...well...y'know

And so much more

I don't get it, were you trying to refute their argument by providing evidence for it?

[Thage]

People complaining about the glaring retcons in Warcraft's lore are hardly a recent situation. As far back as TBC Beta people were letting Metzen have it because he completely 180'd the relationship between Sargeras and the Eredar while writing the lore behind the playable draenei, who were repositioned as uncorrupted eredar rather than the now-Broken/Lost Ones we first met in Warcraft 3. I recall, back on the old Warcraft 3 boards, people were letting Metzen have it over several things, though time has robbed me of the specifics.

As Mehrunes mentioned, Richard A Haack's absolute abortion of a 'retelling' of War of the Ancients, which he turned into a time-travel adventure for no other reason than to include his personal OC and a who's who of "Who's that?" and one notable character (who's only notable because his death was hilariously over-the-top in such a way that would make Vegeta's sacrifice during the Buu arc look like Boromir's noble last stand by comparison), relegating the night elves the entire fucking war was about to second-fiddle supporting deuteragonists in their own novel series. This did not go unnoticed and, to reference T&E, this bold change to allow readers an outsider's view into such a monumental turning point in night elf history and culture was lauded as a necessary addition to the story, giving fresh perspective on characters old and new and no, it was a shitshow, obviously.

[TheFirstOnes]

I don't get it, were you trying to refute their argument by providing evidence for it?

My issue stems toward people complaining about the story now, with the Shadowlands and its existence, even though WoW's retcons have stemmed since the beginning.

I think I should've phrased it better, to be honest.

- - - Updated - - -

People complaining about the glaring retcons in Warcraft's lore are hardly a recent situation. As far back as TBC Beta people were letting Metzen have it because he completely 180'd the relationship between Sargeras and the Eredar while writing the lore behind the playable draenei, who were repositioned as uncorrupted eredar rather than the now-Broken/Lost Ones we first met in Warcraft 3. I recall, back on the old Warcraft 3 boards, people were letting Metzen have it over several things, though time has robbed me of the specifics.

As Mehrunes mentioned, Richard A Haack's absolute abortion of a 'retelling' of War of the Ancients, which he turned into a time-travel adventure for no other reason than to include his personal OC and a who's who of "Who's that?" and one notable character (who's only notable because his death was hilariously over-the-top in such a way that would make Vegeta's sacrifice during the Buu arc look like Boromir's noble last stand by comparison), relegating the night elves the entire fucking war was about to second-fiddle supporting deuteragonists in their own novel series. This did not go unnoticed and, to reference T&E, this bold change to allow readers an outsider's view into such a monumental turning point in night elf history and culture was lauded as a necessary addition to the story, giving fresh perspective on characters old and new and no, it was a shitshow, obviously.

I'm pretty sure you're right on the Sargeras and Eredar thing, with Metzen.

Also, I kinda agree with your points of the WoTA, but, unlike with SL, no one cared as much. This applies with a lot of stuff outside the whole Red Shirt Guy incident at Blizzcon.

But here, people are acting as if the retcons in SL are these lore breaking ordeals, when retcons have always existed. Then again, that's probably because the lore is a much more centered topic in these recent expansions.

[SirBeef]

People don't usually complain about retcons if it doesn't hurt the original material all that much or even makes it better. People haven't forgiven the draenei retcon and Metzen even had to admit that it was a mistake. Illidan wasn't retconned that much in TBC, he was going through a villainous route in WC3 and in TBC it made him look like he is just holding off a possible Legion attack on the Temple while he is still soaking after his defeat to Arthas. If anything the retcons from Legion are way worse.

We've never actually seen all of Northrend either. Most of the time we have seen Arthas in Northrend he was just near the coast which is portrayed in WoW, and after traveling through Azjol-Nerub he was fighting insnow because the Scourge had yet to build their citadel and blight the rest of the zone.

Problem is most of the original material was OK for an RTS game with independent maps and no proper world building with story built around each individual map, with no expectation ever of making a whole world. Once they decided to make Warcraft into a fully fleshed out world, shit was going to get changed or made from scratch. Hell something like 75% of Vanilla was created out of thing air, from zones, races, factions, people, spells, items, and most of the lore surrounding them.

Then as the game went on and the scope of the world/universe grew, more had to change to fit. It's why Chronicles is genius. It allows much of the in game lore to be intact because of perspective. We now have a better understanding from a cosmic perspective.