Neuralink to Demonstrate AI/Brain Interface (Elon Musk)

[kaid]

One of the issues with this tech is scaring. There already are a lot of uses for neural probes for things like allowing people to control prosthetic arms and they work amazingly well. The problem is after about a year the body scars over that area where the probe is and it stops working and then once it happens you basically can't redo it. If they can solve that then at very least improved ability for fully controllable prosthetic would be both easily doable and very useful for those involved even with some minor amounts of touch senstivity.

[cubby]

Mainly that he's a jackass that typifies the silicon valley venture capitalist type in all of the worst ways, vis a vis his screwing the original founders of Tesla. Plus I have no respect for any billionaire since it takes an inherent level of sociopathy to be okay with existing with that level of wealth inequality.

That and the whole...whatcha call it...apartheid thing.

Plus that issue with the diver awhile back. Musk certainly isn't going to win any social grace awards, nor is his personal life anything but a shitshow. All that being said, his business acumen and overall genius seems strong, considering he's brought three separate companies to billion dollar valuations.

(lol re the apartheid thing...has that ever surfaced that we've seen? I'm just asking, I don't recall hearing anything about it directly from him, but obviously it's a big world)

[Unholyground]

It's a promising area of research but they haven't shown that they can actually use it to resolve any major neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. They've only said that it might be able to in the future. Perhaps the first practical application it could have is reliably sending motor signals from the brain to an advanced prosthesis, such as a robotic hand.

Elon Musk always predicts progress "in the next few years" so we should take his predictions with a massive grain of salt, even though I think his optimism is correct over the long-term.

Parkinson's, dementia and Alzheimer's and any brain disease like that is a direct result of years of inhibited sleep in some way. Those electrodes and connections can't magically fix physical decay in your brain because you decided not to sleep or have a condition that makes it hard for you to sleep for decades. There's a lot of applications for the technology he is making.

[YUPPIE]

one of the things I don't get about scientific and technological advancements to help humans live longer is how it lines up with the government conspiracy people *have* to die for population control. They say a cure for cancer has existed for a long time but it is being sacredly withheld for that reason and to keep businesses and corporations intact.

Elon Musk has been an outspoken rebellious person (at least in public) by comparison. He has the money and ideas, but what does it mean if he comes close to getting anywhere revolutionary? Will he be cowed into submission or actually go through with anything he finds for human progression like vastly expanded life?

[PC2]

Parkinson's, dementia and Alzheimer's and any brain disease like that is a direct result of years of inhibited sleep in some way. Those electrodes and connections can't magically fix physical decay in your brain because you decided not to sleep or have a condition that makes it hard for you to sleep for decades.

You'll have to ask Neuralink but I don't think they are claiming that electrical signals can reverse physical decay. They're only claiming that stimulation and changing the frequency and flow of action potentials could alleviate symptoms while it is active. They're saying it's a form of on-going treatment and they aren't claiming it heals physical damage.

There's a lot of applications for the technology he is making.

Yes in the future but very little is known about the brain in 2020 which is why Neuralink wasn't able to demonstrate any medical applications.

[Unholyground]

You'll have to ask Neuralink but I don't think they are claiming that electrical signals can reverse physical decay. They're only claiming that stimulation and changing the frequency and flow of action potentials could alleviate symptoms while it is active. They're saying it's a form of on-going treatment and they aren't claiming it heals physical damage.



Yes in the future but very little is known about the brain in 2020 which is why Neuralink wasn't able to demonstrate any medical applications.

Oh well that is decent then, I could see it being useful for tons of applications down the road for sure.

[PC2]

I thought we cant predict the future.

That's exactly right, when it comes to innovations we can't reliably predict the future we can only reason about what is possible or impossible in principle.

Is god emperor musk different?

Musk is very good at knowing what's possible but in my opinion he's a bit too optimistic when it comes to timing.

[kaid]

There are a lot of potentially medically useful things you could gain from perfecting this kind of tech. Prostetics/fixing or mitigating paralysis would probably be the first couple. If you could put a receiver below a severed spinal cord in theory you could potentially bypass the damage and let somebody regain some functionality/sensation that otherwise would be impossible. The mind controlled prostetics are actually coming along really well and work very effectively hell they even trained a monkey to use them fine. The downside right now is its all temporary nothing we are currently do works more than a year or so due to the body eventually scaring over/enveloping the implant as it tries to reject the foreign body.

[Elegiac]

Plus that issue with the diver awhile back. Musk certainly isn't going to win any social grace awards, nor is his personal life anything but a shitshow. All that being said, his business acumen and overall genius seems strong, considering he's brought three separate companies to billion dollar valuations.

And strangely enough I still don't view that as a net positive because I'm not of the opinion this shit wouldn't exist without Musk.

I.e. slot in any venture capitalist that has read Neuromancer and you can expect similar results.

(lol re the apartheid thing...has that ever surfaced that we've seen? I'm just asking, I don't recall hearing anything about it directly from him, but obviously it's a big world)

Mainly in that he continues to insist he doesn't have anything to do with/commonality of belief with his father and said Emerald Mine nonsense during apartheid and then continually outs himself as a "red pill" with questionable views on things like social caste and race.

But then again I don't trust anyone okay with living as a billionaire. Like I said, it's indicative of an inherent level of sociopathy.

[cubby]

And strangely enough I still don't view that as a net positive because I'm not of the opinion this shit wouldn't exist without Musk.

I.e. slot in any venture capitalist that has read Neuromancer and you can expect similar results.

I would have to disagree - on two fronts. Tesla made great strides, in not only the electric car, but also breaking out of the bullshit model that auto manufacturers had trapped everyone else in. I can also see, however, that the electric car market would probably be doing alright without Musk.

However...

SpaceX - no fucking way we'd be looking at someone else's Falcon 9. The Government was decades behind, in fact had the plans and just pushed them aside. Other companies just haven't been close to making the strides Musk and SpaceX have made. He already put the U.S. back on the map for launching humans into space, and no one else is even remotely close to doing that - they in fact might be at least a decade behind. Musk's progress in that field is literally visionary, and he continues to make strides each year.

Mainly in that he continues to insist he doesn't have anything to do with/commonality of belief with his father and said Emerald Mine nonsense during apartheid and then continually outs himself as a "red pill" with questionable views on things like social caste and race.

This would be for a much larger discussion, but those two things you list above could reasonably co-exist. He doesn't believe what he harbors is related to apartheid, but at some level you can't help it if some of the stuff you grew up on leaks out, despite best intentions (if that makes senes). And I don't think Musk puts his best intentions forward on this front to being with, lol.

[Elegiac]

I would have to disagree - on two fronts. Tesla made great strides, in not only the electric car, but also breaking out of the bullshit model that auto manufacturers had trapped everyone else in. I can also see, however, that the electric car market would probably be doing alright without Musk.

However...

SpaceX - no fucking way we'd be looking at someone else's Falcon 9. The Government was decades behind, in fact had the plans and just pushed them aside. Other companies just haven't been close to making the strides Musk and SpaceX have made. He already put the U.S. back on the map for launching humans into space, and no one else is even remotely close to doing that - they in fact might be at least a decade behind. Musk's progress in that field is literally visionary, and he continues to make strides each year.

Again...

I.e. slot in any venture capitalist that has read Neuromancer and you can expect similar results.

There are lots of nerds you could give a small loan of a million dollars and they'd also be visionaries. I prefer to ascribe SpaceX' achievements to it as an organization, not to its founder.

The idea of the lone inventor or lone businessman is propaganda circulated by capitalists to undermine the role of cooperation and social support to the creative process. This is a manifestation of that.

This would be for a much larger discussion, but those two things you list above could reasonably co-exist. He doesn't believe what he harbors is related to apartheid, but at some level you can't help it if some of the stuff you grew up on leaks out, despite best intentions (if that makes senes). And I don't think Musk puts his best intentions forward on this front to being with, lol.

This really does smack of "product of his time" stuff which I don't hold to be a valid excuse these days. I could always point out how my great grandmother literally believed in Jewish blood libel, but I'm neither an antisemite nor trying to make excuses for antisemitic behavior.

[cubby]

Again...

I.e. slot in any venture capitalist that has read Neuromancer and you can expect similar results.

There are lots of nerds you could give a small loan of a million dollars and they'd also be visionaries. I prefer to ascribe SpaceX' achievements to it as an organization, not to its founder.

The idea of the lone inventor or lone businessman is propaganda circulated by capitalists to undermine the role of cooperation and social support to the creative process. This is a manifestation of that.

And again, I will agree with you in his other ventures, but not SpaceX. He did it. Period. No one else is even close, despite in some cases having better access. You can make the claim that "others could have given the same resources" but they didn't; and still haven't. And part of those history making solutions coming forward is the combination of talent and resources. The argument that if you give lots of nerds million dollar loans they might be visionaries as well is species at best. It's just not how our society works (and by that I mean the world, not just the U.S.). Musk did it. He gathered the resources and did what no one else is still even remotely close to doing.

This really does smack of "product of his time" stuff which I don't hold to be a valid excuse these days. I could always point out how my great grandmother literally believed in Jewish blood libel, but I'm neither an antisemite nor trying to make excuses for antisemitic behavior.

I wasn't presenting it as a valid excuse, I'm just pointing out why the inconsistencies might exist in Musk's mind, if that makes sense. I agree with you that the "product of his time" bullshit is 100% invalid.

[Elegiac]

And again, I will agree with you in his other ventures, but not SpaceX. He did it. Period. No one else is even close, despite in some cases having better access. You can make the claim that "others could have given the same resources" but they didn't; and still haven't. And part of those history making solutions coming forward is the combination of talent and resources. The argument that if you give lots of nerds million dollar loans they might be visionaries as well is species at best. It's just not how our society works (and by that I mean the world, not just the U.S.). Musk did it. He gathered the resources and did what no one else is still even remotely close to doing.

Missing the point a little: I'm disputing the criticality of "the visionary" to the process. Mainly because we've been primed by our historiography to view achievements through the lens of "great men", so of course we have a hard time conceiving of anything happening without a 'leader' at the helm.

Folks forget that SpaceX is hardly the first private aerospace venture. It could not have succeeded if others did not fail before it, and it would not be succeeding if there were not strong government support for private aerospace as an alternative to NASA (read Skroe's posts on the subject).

[Monster Hunter]

It's a promising area of research but they haven't shown that they can actually use it to resolve any major neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. They've only said that it might be able to in the future. Perhaps the first practical application it could have is reliably sending motor signals from the brain to an advanced prosthesis, such as a robotic hand.

Elon Musk always predicts progress "in the next few years" so we should take his predictions with a massive grain of salt, even though I think his optimism is correct over the long-term.

Interfacing the human mind with external applications and fixing internal issues with human minds are two seperate things.

I don't like saying this. As I have lost a grandparent to demantia and I'm not long of losing another to it, but I wouldn't hold out on there being a solution to those kinds of problems from tech. Certainly not alzhimers and demantia.

Here is an image of a health brain (left) and one of an alzhimers patient (right)


As you can see the amount of structural damdge is extensive. And currently there isn't any thing we know of to reverse the damdge caused we can only slow down the process and in some rare cases halt it. Which is why early diagnosis is so key. Parkinsons is different ofc and there might be applications for this tech there but more as mobility aids but not as a form of treatment. I'm sorry if you had hopes in this tech for those conditions.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm extremely excited for the possibilities.

This could be used to treat any conditions and diseases stemming from the brain, such as GAD, or PTSD! Or maybe even Alzheimer's and Parkinson's! Maybe even psychopathy, or Bipolarity!

I am excite!!

[cubby]

Missing the point a little: I'm disputing the criticality of "the visionary" to the process. Mainly because we've been primed by our historiography to view achievements through the lens of "great men", so of course we have a hard time conceiving of anything happening without a 'leader' at the helm.

Folks forget that SpaceX is hardly the first private aerospace venture. It could not have succeeded if others did not fail before it, and it would not be succeeding if there were not strong government support for private aerospace as an alternative to NASA (read Skroe's posts on the subject).

Ah, ok - I see. And I agree - he couldn't have achieved what he did without the past successes and failures of others, AND strong government support. I've definitely read his posts on the subject.

But at the same time, no great achievement comes without those things - so they can be at the same time recognized, and then cast aside. Because while others have come before and failed, but at the same time built upon and for the future achievement, Musk actually did it. And it took a lot of his actual work to get it done.

This isn't the equivalent of Neil Armstrong landing on the moon - anyone one of a few dozen people could have had that title. Musk garnered resources, opportunity, ingenuity, and know-how to get something done that no one else had done before, and still hasn't, despite a literal blue print.

[PC2]

Interfacing the human mind with external applications and fixing internal issues with human minds are two seperate things.

I don't like saying this. As I have lost a grandparent to demantia and I'm not long of losing another to it, but I wouldn't hold out on there being a solution to those kinds of problems from tech. Certainly not alzhimers and demantia.

Here is an image of a health brain (left) and one of an alzhimers patient (right)
[IMG]https://i.redd.it/zuz1ykhbluv31.jpg[IMG]

As you can see the amount of structural damdge is extensive. And currently there isn't any thing we know of to reverse the damdge caused we can only slow down the process and in some rare cases halt it. Which is why early diagnosis is so key. Parkinsons is different ofc and there might be applications for this tech there but more as mobility aids but not as a form of treatment. I'm sorry if you had hopes in this tech for those conditions.

I think it is possible to prevent or cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's in the far future but I have no clue about the what the solution is. As far as a brain implant like Neuralink my guess is that it could only help to manage symptoms and it won't actually be a cure for those 2 diseases. Prevention will be the best route because if neurodegeneration effects a portion of the brain that stores unique fragments of knowledge and memory then they can never truly be recovered even if the neurodegenerative disease was 100% cured. The person would have to re-learn anything that was lost and form new memories. Although the brain has some limited amount of redundancy that protects information.

[Fargus]

Lol re youtube for source material. If you have some articles or other cites, I'd be glad to take a look at them.

Is there is good version of the maglev metro system up and running now?

The source material is from an actual qualified scientist who actually shows you, quite fundamentally, why it will not work. Not my problem you're going to ignore it.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, seriously, what is your problem with this guy?

He's a fuckhead.

[Monster Hunter]

I think it is possible to prevent or cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's in the far future but I have no clue about the what the solution is. As far as a brain implant like Neuralink my guess is that it could only help to manage symptoms and it won't actually be a cure for those 2 diseases. Prevention will be the best route because if neurodegeneration effects a portion of the brain that stores unique fragments of knowledge and memory then they can never truly be recovered even if the neurodegenerative disease was 100% cured. The person would have to re-learn anything that was lost and form new memories. Although the brain has some limited amount of redundancy that protects information.

It's a really really tuff problem, as you see in those images the amount of brain cell death can be extreamly extensive in altzhimers, the ability to read a brain and use that to control something external isn't much use when the issue is there's Alot less brain due to the degeneration

Only possible path I can see is down the road of stem cells. Or some form of grafting cloned blank brain matter for the brain to adapt. But that might as well be scify.

Unfortunately atm, early prevention is all we have. Just wish my nan hadn't been such a proud and stubborn woman and gon to the docs when me and my dad told her to instead of just passing it of as "getting old and forgetful"

[cubby]

The source material is from an actual qualified scientist who actually shows you, quite fundamentally, why it will not work. Not my problem you're going to ignore it.

I'm not watching a youtube video - those are the most ridiculous sources of information, and the bane of scientific evidence. If you have what you claim, link it, and I'll take a look. Otherwise, don't be like those anti-science people, who ask us to prove their points. Be better than that, please.