Multiple US troops injured in collision with a Russian military convoy in Syria

[Ulmita]

The official said that the injuries occurred when one of the Russian vehicles apparently deliberately collided with the American vehicle causing the crew to suffer "concussion-like injuries." Initial reports indicate as many as four Americans may have been injured.

Sources:
- https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/26/p...ria/index.html
- https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-rus...ns-11598469710

Video: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/us-r...ge-syria-video

Looks like an extreme case of bullying to me. What do you guys think?

[Machismo]

I'm sure Trump will condemn those terrible American soldiers for it all.

[Shalcker]

Bullying isn’t a term used in a situation like this. It’s an overt act of aggression. Sadly, Trump will believe anything that comes out Putin’s mouth. So this will go unanswered.

Overt act of aggression by US military you mean?

From last link
The encounter represents the latest skirmish between U.S. and Russian military vehicles in northeastern Syria.

In February, a video emerged of a U.S. armored truck running the lead vehicle in a Russian military convoy off of a stretch of road near the Turkish border town of Qamishli.

In June, a video shared to Twitter by freelance journalist Mohammed Hassan appeared to show several U.S. M-ATVs trying to box in a Russian armored vehicle somewhere in northeastern Syria.

Then, in July, a video shared by former U.S. special envoy Brett McGurk showed an encounter between U.S. M-ATVs and Russian vehicles in the Syrian town of Al Hasakah during which a Russian commander reportedly berated a U.S. service member for following them.

“The encounters happen a few times each month and, thus far, have been resolved without escalation,” OIR spokesman Army Col. Myles Caggins previously told Task & Purpose in July.

Get out of Syria already.

---
Also, at the end of the article is this gem:
Related: US troops left behind dick drawings at an abandoned Syrian camp they knew Russian soldiers would take over

And i got to agree - being dicks is clearly related!

[zmp]

Poor American soldiers being bullied :'(

[Easo]

I am just gonna say this - they both are clearly morons and one day guns will be fired (does not matter by which side first), then there will be much tears and soulsearching, too late, of course.

[Thekri]

Eh, Stupid non-issue.

Dumb shit happens on deployments all the time, there are all sorts of people playing chicken with your trucks every day. Soldiers walk a fine line between not being the instigators, and also not being push overs. The response from the vehicle in question is based on about 25% policy and 75% the personality and judgement of the vehicle commander in question.

This is presumably the same with the Russian vehicles. Both sides are given broad leeway in shaping the encounter, and also given clear lines not to cross. So there is going to be a lot of testosterone fueled jockeying. The only reason this makes the news is because the other side is Russians. It happens with other types of vehicles all the time, I have been deliberately sideswiped by dump trucks, been pelted by rocks, had garbage dumped on my truck, and much more. Just part of deployment.

Much like the examples I dealt with, it is because the two sides are "Sometimes Enemies". We actually get in gun fights with them sometimes, but not usually in broad daylight with everyone waving their flags. So people on both sides know people that got hurt or killed by the other side. It isn't good natured at all, it is a personal hostility finding an outlet. There have been numerous lethal engagements between US and Russian forces, in each case the Russian Government declares the engaged party to be "Unaffiliated Mercenaries", usually with the Wagner Group. In many cases the Wagner group "Mercenaries" seem to be simultaneously employed both as Russian Army Reservists deployed to Syria AND Wagner Group Mercenaries at the same time. Allowing them to change hats as the situation demands. This isn't unique to Russia either, a significant number of US Security contractors are also members of the National Guard, however the US does not allow them to change titles on deployment (Because of US Title 10 privileges, either you are Title 10 for the duration, or you are Title 34 for the State, or you are a civilian. No grey area). Russia just deliberately blurs the line because it is convenient.

[arandomuser]

if we had a real president
he would make sure a bunch of russians should be dead right now for attacking us like they deserve
but we have a russian patsy so nobody cares

[Easo]

if we had a real president
he would make sure a bunch of russians should be dead right now for attacking us like they deserve
but we have a russian patsy so nobody cares

You did not think much before posting this, did you?

[Ulmita]

I am just gonna say this - they both are clearly morons and one day guns will be fired (does not matter by which side first), then there will be much tears and soulsearching, too late, of course.

can't agree more to this

[Thekri]

I am just gonna say this - they both are clearly morons and one day guns will be fired (does not matter by which side first), then there will be much tears and soulsearching, too late, of course.

Not really. Guns are already fired frequently, and the Russians have lost a lot of Soldiers in Syria, with a fair few of them killed by Americans. How many is unclear, but certainly some. Russian forces also fight Turkish Forces directly.

This situation is different because middle east wars tend to be really, really, really complicated, much more then most people realize. Who is fighting who is an extremely complex diagram, with a lot of if/then logic paths involved. The specific area this incident occurred in revolves around the SDF (Syrian Defense Forces) who are technically allied with both the US and Russia.

Trump is pretty much directly responsible for setting this condition, because Russia was only able to ally with the SDF after the US abandoned them during the Turkish Invasion. Since Russia was willing to help them defend all of their territory, and the US was only willing to help them defend part of it, they set an alliance with both. The situation gets more complex when you look at the area the US is "Defending", which is primarily the oil fields the SDF seized from the Syrian government five years ago. These oil fields are incredibly complex politically, since they technically still belong to the Syrian government, but were taken by US backed SDF forces, who now claim them. However, apparently earlier this year the SDF sold the rights to the oil field to the Russians (Since you know, they helped them when the US abandoned them), but the Americans are still sitting on top of them and refusing to allow the Russians access.

So the Russians are attempting to pressure US forces to leave, so they can have access to the oil wells, and the US is sitting on top of them for no damn reason, except because Trump claims "We kept the oil". Basically this is the result of a 4 year old creating our Syrian policy. This is why Mattis resigned in the first place. The US has absolutely no reason to be there, other then to sit on Oil that Trump wants for no reason, that we have no legal claim too. Russia tried using Wagner Group to attack the oil wells and force us off, and that led to at least 20 destroyed vehicles and between 40 to 400 fatalities (No US losses). So they aren't likely to do that again.

- - - Updated - - -

if we had a real president
he would make sure a bunch of russians should be dead right now for attacking us like they deserve
but we have a russian patsy so nobody cares

I mean the US is not really the good guys in this situation. The individual soldiers are good people, but they are sitting on top of oil wells that we have no legal claim to, blocking access to Russia who bought the rights from the SDF. Because Trump is throwing a temper tantrum and essentially using the US military for piracy.

[arandomuser]

Not really. Guns are already fired frequently, and the Russians have lost a lot of Soldiers in Syria, with a fair few of them killed by Americans. How many is unclear, but certainly some. Russian forces also fight Turkish Forces directly.

This situation is different because middle east wars tend to be really, really, really complicated, much more then most people realize. Who is fighting who is an extremely complex diagram, with a lot of if/then logic paths involved. The specific area this incident occurred in revolves around the SDF (Syrian Defense Forces) who are technically allied with both the US and Russia.

Trump is pretty much directly responsible for setting this condition, because Russia was only able to ally with the SDF after the US abandoned them during the Turkish Invasion. Since Russia was willing to help them defend all of their territory, and the US was only willing to help them defend part of it, they set an alliance with both. The situation gets more complex when you look at the area the US is "Defending", which is primarily the oil fields the SDF seized from the Syrian government five years ago. These oil fields are incredibly complex politically, since they technically still belong to the Syrian government, but were taken by US backed SDF forces, who now claim them. However, apparently earlier this year the SDF sold the rights to the oil field to the Russians (Since you know, they helped them when the US abandoned them), but the Americans are still sitting on top of them and refusing to allow the Russians access.

So the Russians are attempting to pressure US forces to leave, so they can have access to the oil wells, and the US is sitting on top of them for no damn reason, except because Trump claims "We kept the oil". Basically this is the result of a 4 year old creating our Syrian policy. This is why Mattis resigned in the first place. The US has absolutely no reason to be there, other then to sit on Oil that Trump wants for no reason, that we have no legal claim too. Russia tried using Wagner Group to attack the oil wells and force us off, and that led to at least 20 destroyed vehicles and between 40 to 400 fatalities (No US losses). So they aren't likely to do that again.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean the US is not really the good guys in this situation. The individual soldiers are good people, but they are sitting on top of oil wells that we have no legal claim to, blocking access to Russia who bought the rights from the SDF. Because Trump is throwing a temper tantrum and essentially using the US military for piracy.

if its true that his admin is actually doing something that triggers russia
ill give him credit, but still bad to withdraw from the ME and afghanistal all together

[Easo]

Not really. Guns are already fired frequently, and the Russians have lost a lot of Soldiers in Syria, with a fair few of them killed by Americans. How many is unclear, but certainly some. Russian forces also fight Turkish Forces directly.

I meant in open situations like these, with the official forces, where it is filmed by both sides, not Wagner getting blown up as the cannon fodder that they are. We have not had such cases yet (AFAIK), thankfully, but it will make a big international stink when it happens. And I am saying when, not if, because the heads are most definitely not cool enough. There is a lot of cheering on Russian webs about this and I am sure I could find the same for Americans.
P.S.
I honestly do not believe in "the complexity of Middle East", it is a thing people made up to excuse/handwave stuff away. If you want, I can go into details, though that is probably unnecessary.

[Thekri]

I meant in open situations like these, with the official forces, where it is filmed by both sides, not Wagner getting blown up as the cannon fodder that they are. We have not had such cases yet (AFAIK), thankfully, but it will make a big international stink when it happens. And I am saying when, not if, because the heads are most definitely not cool enough. There is a lot of cheering on Russian webs about this and I am sure I could find the same for Americans.
P.S.
I honestly do not believe in "the complexity of Middle East", it is a thing people made up to excuse/handwave stuff away. If you want, I can go into details, though that is probably unnecessary.

Wait, you don't believe the middle east is complex? Really?

I mean the rest of the post is also doubtful, but that is a really mind-blowing claim. I wrote two very long posts, longer then any thing else in this thread, I still over-simplified, and you are claiming I am hand-waving something?

[ohtlmtlm]

weird why isnt Trump rage-tweeting about this?

[Blur4stuff]

Trump condones Russia putting bounties on our soldiers so I don't think he'll do much about this.

[Easo]

Wait, you don't believe the middle east is complex? Really?

I mean the rest of the post is also doubtful, but that is a really mind-blowing claim. I wrote two very long posts, longer then any thing else in this thread, I still over-simplified, and you are claiming I am hand-waving something?

I am not sure why you are so defensive when my post was not even aimed at you, or meant to insult anyone...
But yeah, I do not think the Middle East is that complex. USA political/goverment system is probably more complex.

[Thekri]

I am not sure why you are so defensive when my post was not even aimed at you, or meant to insult anyone...
But yeah, I do not think the Middle East is that complex. USA political/goverment system is probably more complex.

Not defensive, just find it hilarious.

Nothing is complex if you don't know anything about it. To me, orbital mechanics are incredibly simple, stuff just goes around in circles. However, I am smart enough to realize orbital mechanics are probably not actually simple, and the more you know about it, the less simple it will seem.

The war in Syria, and the broader situation in the middle east are incredibly complex, because it reflects the competing agendas of hundreds or even thousands of different factions, all laid over a cultural and geographic context that is itself incredibly complex. If it appears simple, that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. It is a bit like when Donald Trump discovered healthcare was complicated. Literally everyone told him it was, yet he was surprised to find it out himself.

[Easo]

Not defensive, just find it hilarious.

Nothing is complex if you don't know anything about it. To me, orbital mechanics are incredibly simple, stuff just goes around in circles. However, I am smart enough to realize orbital mechanics are probably not actually simple, and the more you know about it, the less simple it will seem.

The war in Syria, and the broader situation in the middle east are incredibly complex, because it reflects the competing agendas of hundreds or even thousands of different factions, all laid over a cultural and geographic context that is itself incredibly complex. If it appears simple, that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. It is a bit like when Donald Trump discovered healthcare was complicated. Literally everyone told him it was, yet he was surprised to find it out himself.

Yes, I am aware that there are multiple groups on multiple levels, both with different and common interests - local countries, foreign ones, religious groups, tribes and clans and finally factions within each of these who are and are not interconnected to the previous groups.. So basically a few layers, who are interconnected one way or another.
Does that make it actually complex? Mostly it is a challenge to remember what group does/wants what to understand what will the implications be when doing something with those groups, not that the agendas of those groups are actually complex.

This is just my two cents, so please, go compare Trump with someone else.

[Collegeguy]

I am just gonna say this - they both are clearly morons and one day guns will be fired (does not matter by which side first), then there will be much tears and soulsearching, too late, of course.

You mean like on this wonderful day?

https://youtu.be/XaeDMOWkCwU?t=606

[CostinR]

This is why Mattis resigned in the first place. The US has absolutely no reason to be there, other then to sit on Oil that Trump wants for no reason, that we have no legal claim too. Russia tried using Wagner Group to attack the oil wells and force us off, and that led to at least 20 destroyed vehicles and between 40 to 400 fatalities (No US losses). So they aren't likely to do that again.

While I always value your input and the clear understanding you bring to the table I think this is not quite true.

Mattis to my knowledge resigned because he is a man that has actual principles, and as a solider it stank to high hell to abandon the Kurds who had fought, bled and died fighting as the frontline infantry units in America's war against ISIS to take Raqqa, while Trump didn't much care because he wanted out, then did an about face partially because Congress forced him to.

But really the US was staying in Syria for what purpose? Protect the Kurds and keep control over the eastern side of the country? A rather foolish endeavor on multiple levels because the US:

- Has not had any plan or desire to topple Assad over since Obama withdrew from the red line, and especially after ISIS rose up.
- Does not have the desire to stop Erdogan from destroying the Syrian Kurds because it would be too costly to do so and because the Turks and Russians are killing each other.
- Has no long term plan and no political or economical gain from staying in Syria.

Trump looked at the situation and decided he didn't care to spend money keeping troops for basically nothing in a quagmire

I mean the US is not really the good guys in this situation. The individual soldiers are good people, but they are sitting on top of oil wells that we have no legal claim to, blocking access to Russia who bought the rights from the SDF. Because Trump is throwing a temper tantrum and essentially using the US military for piracy.

It's what happens when Trump looked at a situation and decided he didn't care to spend money keeping troops for basically nothing in a quagmire of a civil war and decided to pull out, only for Congress to go ballistic because of his decision , especially because it meant abandoning Syria to Russia, oh the horror of leaving Russia a country they'll be spending billions yearly to keep afloat.

So after the reaction from Congress Trump decided to do a turn-around and created a pretext of "securing the oil" to have some reason he could throw out there for staying.

Although I searched and found nothing about the Kurds selling the Syrian oilfields to Russia, maybe you were talking about Iraqi Kurdistan? Instead they sold them to a US company:

https://www.voanews.com/extremism-wa...d-forces-syria