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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by orsraunia View Post
    Valid concern OP. I feel the same.

    They can easily "fix" this by removing the class abilities from covenants and making them available as talents, giving us a new talent row. Covenants have enough going on to feel different and meaningful, even without a unique class ability. Additionally, something like this would make balancing easier for them and would save us enough frustration. Their persistence of not going down that path is troubling to say the least.


    To be honest at this point, I dont even really care what they do with covenant abilities. People have cried so much about X, then Y, then Z being mandatory everything that was good has already been nerfed to the ground so hard they all feel weak now (testing from a tank PoV at least). The ones that do still feel good are probably next on the chopping block for nerfs.


    "given the choice, players will min/max the fun out of the game" is so true it is comical. Watching people obsess over the smallest of gains when they cant even maximize their base class toolkit is golden.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I definitely don’t min max. But to raid at a semi competent level, once you hit 120 you had to do that awful legendary chain from the beginning, you needed to do visions to get your legendary up, and you needed to get a bunch of corruptions. It’s a slow, annoying process that takes months.

    When I started playing, the game was: hit max, run dungeons for two weeks to get catch up gear, time to raid!
    Dude, 2 weeks are more than enough to get good enough gear to start doing mythic raiding. The legendary questline takes maybe 2 hours without the skips. Visions to level the cloak to 5 (the level you need to do the last 2 bosses in Ny'alotha) takes less than an hour. One week of m+ dungeons and you have good enough gear to clear Ny'alotha HC, 2 weeks you should be able to at least do the 3 first bosses in mythic. One of the most common complaints is that Blizzard is handing out loot too easily.

    That it'd be more time consuming to get in shape for raids now than it's been before is NOT a valid concern. The one thing that actually is time consuming is to unlock the best essences for the first time. However you get some decent ones from just playing the game, not the BiS ones in all cases, but good enough to, as you said, raid at a semi competent level.


    As for the people complaining about the covenants locking you to a spec, get over yourselves. Yes, some covenants are obviously better for some specs. However, playing with a covenant that isn't the best for your current spec won't gimp you so that you can't play the game. I've tried out tons of different specs/covenant combinations in the beta, and you can do all content (PvE at least, never had any interest in PvP so haven't played any of it) in whatever spec/covenant combo you fancy. Chosing the best covenant for your main spec, will not stop you from clearing +15 keys or mythic bosses in your offspec.
    The only ones that should really worry about their covenant choice are world first racers, and people pushing really high keys.

    A red thread in this discussion has been that they have to keep LFR because not enough people do organized raiding. Yet it's only the top percentages of the small playerbase that do the organized raiding that really have to care about this.

    To sum it up from someone who's played lots of beta, Playing in a covenant that isn't BiS for your spec won't be impactful enough that you can't clear all content, unless you go for it competetively. So unless you are going for leaderboards on your offspec, playing in your main specs covenant will be perfectly viable.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    When the hell did you start playing, in the pre-patch for a new expansion?

    Literally the only times "hit max, run dungeons for two weeks to get catch up gear, time to raid!" have been true have been in:

    A) Late Wrath of the Lich King.

    and

    B) Some pre-patches.

    That I remember anyway. I mean, TBC? No. You need to do a bunch of stuff. Wrath - not initially, but it did become that way. Cataclysm? Nah, you had to eff around with a ton of stuff, particularly reps. MoP - I have no idea I skipped MoP. WoD - nope. Loads to do. Let's not even discuss Garrisons. Legion? You certainly weren't doing "semi-competent" raiding two weeks after charging into the expansion half-way through or w/e. If I misremember, please correct me.

    Also, the "awful legendary chain from the beginning" takes like, what, 2-4 hours? So the idea that it's some terrible crime is pretty silly. And that and corruption are specific to 8.3, not true generally in BfA.

    As for the thread in general, I find it a bit bizarre, because even the very-negative Youtuber types are saying it'll be drastically easier to have raiding alts in SL than BfA, not harder or as hard.
    Late Wrath and Cata. Cata had reps but you could get them passively with the tabards. Early Cata dungeon grind was tough but I don’t mind challenge. Late Cata was just hot heroics and into Dragon Soul. I think you had to do something for Therazane but it was relatively trivial.

    MoP (after first patch) and WoD were mostly like that too except for the legendary.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Late Wrath and Cata. Cata had reps but you could get them passively with the tabards. Early Cata dungeon grind was tough but I don’t mind challenge. Late Cata was just hot heroics and into Dragon Soul. I think you had to do something for Therazane but it was relatively trivial.

    MoP (after first patch) and WoD were mostly like that too except for the legendary.
    Cata's big problem was that the gear you got from Heroic dungeons wasn't really acceptable for raiding (which was funny because you couldn't get much more than that, just a bit from reps and stuff). It certainly wasn't acceptable for Heroic raiding. This was different to late Wrath. Late Wrath, sure, that gear from TotC and the ICC dungeons, was fine for HM Ulduar, Heroic TotGC, ICC and even Heroic ICC if your guild was pretty well-geared generally.

    Also, in Cata you couldn't rep-up that fast with the tabards. There just wasn't that much rep in the dungeons. The idea that you had it all done in "two weeks" as you're saying is absolute nonsense unless you were running dungeons literally 8 hours/day. Dungeons which were significantly slower and more tedious, and harder to find competent people for than Wrath, I should add.

    I skipped MoP so I'll take your word for it, but WoD absolutely was NOT like that. The sheer amount of grinding and effing around you were expected to do was huge. You certainly couldn't just pop in half-way through the expansion and bing bang boom, two weeks later you're doing Heroic raiding (i.e. "semi-competent" raiding), not unless you got a shit-ton of help.

    I think what's confusing the issue here is that, in late Wrath, yes, the catch-up mechanisms and simplicity of stuff, plus TotGC being kind of a joke even on Heroic (when even the half-dumb guild I was in beat Heroic TotGC the first week it was possible to beat it, well...), sure, you could barge in, and two weeks of dungeons (maybe even less) later you could be "semi-competent" raiding (if we see TotGC Heroic as "semi-competent" say, which sounds about right).

    So you experienced Wrath from the perspective of arriving late, and then going direct into raiding.

    But then what you're describing in Cata, MoP, and WoD, is totally different. It's playing from the beginning of the expansion as normal. Not arriving late and catching up. If you arrived late and tried to catch up in any of those expansions, I think your experience would be very different from what you're describing, except maybe Cata HoT/Dragon Soul. A couple of my friends went back to WoW in later MoP and they certainly didn't find it like late-Wrath in terms of ease-of-catchup.

    And I honestly don't think it was that bad in 8.3, compared to any of these eras, in terms of amount of time/effort to catch up. You could certainly gear up completely for Normal and arguably even Heroic raiding in 2 weeks in BfA in 8.3 (you could make a much better case that you couldn't in 8.1, say, but you picked 8.3 as your example).
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-29 at 04:08 PM.
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  5. #225
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    Implying that spec's aren't full fledged classes compared to a few years ago (combat rotation wise).

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    When the hell did you start playing, in the pre-patch for a new expansion?

    Literally the only times "hit max, run dungeons for two weeks to get catch up gear, time to raid!" have been true have been in:

    A) Late Wrath of the Lich King.

    and

    B) Some pre-patches.

    That I remember anyway. I mean, TBC? No. You need to do a bunch of stuff. Wrath - not initially, but it did become that way. Cataclysm? Nah, you had to eff around with a ton of stuff, particularly reps. MoP - I have no idea I skipped MoP. WoD - nope. Loads to do. Let's not even discuss Garrisons. Legion? You certainly weren't doing "semi-competent" raiding two weeks after charging into the expansion half-way through or w/e. If I misremember, please correct me.

    Also, the "awful legendary chain from the beginning" takes like, what, 2-4 hours? So the idea that it's some terrible crime is pretty silly. And that and corruption are specific to 8.3, not true generally in BfA.

    As for the thread in general, I find it a bit bizarre, because even the very-negative Youtuber types are saying it'll be drastically easier to have raiding alts in SL than BfA, not harder or as hard.
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  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Cata's big problem was that the gear you got from Heroic dungeons wasn't really acceptable for raiding (which was funny because you couldn't get much more than that, just a bit from reps and stuff). It certainly wasn't acceptable for Heroic raiding. This was different to late Wrath. Late Wrath, sure, that gear from TotC and the ICC dungeons, was fine for HM Ulduar, Heroic TotGC, ICC and even Heroic ICC if your guild was pretty well-geared generally.

    Also, in Cata you couldn't rep-up that fast with the tabards. There just wasn't that much rep in the dungeons. The idea that you had it all done in "two weeks" as you're saying is absolute nonsense unless you were running dungeons literally 8 hours/day. Dungeons which were significantly slower and more tedious, and harder to find competent people for than Wrath, I should add.

    I skipped MoP so I'll take your word for it, but WoD absolutely was NOT like that. The sheer amount of grinding and effing around you were expected to do was huge. You certainly couldn't just pop in half-way through the expansion and bing bang boom, two weeks later you're doing Heroic raiding (i.e. "semi-competent" raiding), not unless you got a shit-ton of help.

    I think what's confusing the issue here is that, in late Wrath, yes, the catch-up mechanisms and simplicity of stuff, plus TotGC being kind of a joke even on Heroic (when even the half-dumb guild I was in beat Heroic TotGC the first week it was possible to beat it, well...), sure, you could barge in, and two weeks of dungeons (maybe even less) later you could be "semi-competent" raiding (if we see TotGC Heroic as "semi-competent" say, which sounds about right).

    So you experienced Wrath from the perspective of arriving late, and then going direct into raiding.

    But then what you're describing in Cata, MoP, and WoD, is totally different. It's playing from the beginning of the expansion as normal. Not arriving late and catching up. If you arrived late and tried to catch up in any of those expansions, I think your experience would be very different from what you're describing, except maybe Cata HoT/Dragon Soul. A couple of my friends went back to WoW in later MoP and they certainly didn't find it like late-Wrath in terms of ease-of-catchup.

    And I honestly don't think it was that bad in 8.3, compared to any of these eras, in terms of amount of time/effort to catch up. You could certainly gear up completely for Normal and arguably even Heroic raiding in 2 weeks in BfA in 8.3 (you could make a much better case that you couldn't in 8.1, say, but you picked 8.3 as your example).
    I’m not sure which is worse - MoP and WoD with the legendaries, which was basically run one set of LFR each week, or 8.3. I personally think 8.3 is worse because of essences. Grinding for most essences is even more boring than LFR. In LFR you’re in a group and you’re spending most time fighting and you can do it in one day each week when you have time. Grinding the rep essences meant going back day after day to do quests where most of your time is spent traveling.

    WRT the Cata reps: I had two raid geared toons, pugging all the time, and I never did a daily. I just threw on a tabard for the next pieces I wanted and got them.

    So here’s my experience:

    Late wrath: 2 weeks and you’re in. Fine.
    Early Cata: it’s gonna take more than two weeks because the dungeons are hard, but that’s ok. Hard dungeons are fun! Fine.
    Late Cata: hot heroics. Two weeks and you’re in.
    Early MoP: dailies everywhere. Horrific.
    Late MoP: no dailies. Timeless takes 2 weeks, legendary drags on but that’s one small thing. Not great, but better than early MoP.
    Early WoD: easy dungeons, no legendary catch up. Getting garrison going took a bit of effort at first but then it was fine.
    Late WoD: mythic dungeon grind took a week, then 2 months of LFR legendary catch up.
    All of Legion: rng legendary grind that encouraged you to do everything, with very slow/non existent catch up for those behind. Slow catch up on ap.

    Then we know what bfa is.

    So overall it was Wrath>Cata fairly good, MoP > WoD worse, Legion>BFA atrocious.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    this is just 100% not true, theres no way. I alone pugged kil'jaeden so many times that i had to have played with 1000 different people alone. Theres no chance mere thousands saw kil'jaeden unless i pugged with the majority of them...
    I was slightly mistaken, it was Kel'thuzad, not Kil'jaeden. Here's the quote. Eh, both start with K, three letters, apostrophe, the rest. M'bad.

    "LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR."
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  9. #229
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Blizzard has actually said in interviews that if LFR was removed, raid tiers would suffer. LFR gives them a reason to keep making cool raids because way more people will see it. They wouldn't see a reason to make interesting raids anymore if only a small percentage of the game same them. Also, they're talking about TBC Kil'jaedan and not Legion Kil'jaedan.
    oh ok if theyre talking about tbc KJ than maybe they are right, i started playing at tbc kharazan, neve really got a change to do sunwell, times were way diff back then. Much harder to find pugs

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I was slightly mistaken, it was Kel'thuzad, not Kil'jaeden. Here's the quote. Eh, both start with K, three letters, apostrophe, the rest. M'bad.

    "LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR."
    If this is true why do they make less raids now than they did in the past when lfr did not exist.

  11. #231
    Yay, go YOU ! ive also "mained" my paladin now since vanilla and i've never been a fan of melee dps and holy has gradually become worse gameplay-wise during the years forcing me to only play protection since cata as "main spec" with a occasional focus on trying to get holy to be fun again or trying retri getting annoyed about other tanks being dipshits wanting to jump into my tanking gear and showing how its done.

  12. #232
    Blizzard altered the deal. You are maining a spec. Pray that they don't alter it any further.

  13. #233
    At least some classes feel more like classes again.
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  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I’m not sure which is worse - MoP and WoD with the legendaries, which was basically run one set of LFR each week, or 8.3. I personally think 8.3 is worse because of essences. Grinding for most essences is even more boring than LFR. In LFR you’re in a group and you’re spending most time fighting and you can do it in one day each week when you have time. Grinding the rep essences meant going back day after day to do quests where most of your time is spent traveling.
    Yeah that's a matter of perspective. I find Essences are a lot less awful, but YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    WRT the Cata reps: I had two raid geared toons, pugging all the time, and I never did a daily. I just threw on a tabard for the next pieces I wanted and got them.
    Son, my face here is incredibly skeptical. It's obviously not impossible but you must have been running those dungeons over and over so much long after you'd got literally every bit of loot from them (because in early Cata, that's all they offered, shit-tier loot, that includes the Heroic versions - I mean, you took what you could get but fuck).

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    So here’s my experience:

    Late wrath: 2 weeks and you’re in. Fine.
    Early Cata: it’s gonna take more than two weeks because the dungeons are hard, but that’s ok. Hard dungeons are fun! Fine.
    Late Cata: hot heroics. Two weeks and you’re in.
    Early MoP: dailies everywhere. Horrific.
    Late MoP: no dailies. Timeless takes 2 weeks, legendary drags on but that’s one small thing. Not great, but better than early MoP.
    Early WoD: easy dungeons, no legendary catch up. Getting garrison going took a bit of effort at first but then it was fine.
    Late WoD: mythic dungeon grind took a week, then 2 months of LFR legendary catch up.
    All of Legion: rng legendary grind that encouraged you to do everything, with very slow/non existent catch up for those behind. Slow catch up on ap.

    Then we know what bfa is.

    So overall it was Wrath>Cata fairly good, MoP > WoD worse, Legion>BFA atrocious.
    Yeah this is mostly true and then for some reason you just decide to lie wildly about Legion? Why? It's transparently bollocks.

    Legion had massive AP catch-up. I had a friend who didn't come back until 8.2 or 8.2.5 or something, and his character was caught up to mine in absolutely no time. I also had alts catch up really quick. Legion had distinct phases, just like all the other expansions. Early Legion was horrible, mid-Legion was okay, and late Legion was basically easier to catch up than any other expansion except late Wrath/late Cata.

    BfA also had phases, but it had countervailing factors at all times, which was unfortunate. For example, once they put in the "jump to L50 heart" that saved an insane amount of grind, but they also put in Essences and then Corruptions, and increased the grind. Still, you're exaggerating what it takes to get to "semi-competent" levels of raiding, which is what, Normal/Heroic-level raid-appropriate gear?

    And the other big difference is that in both Legion and BfA there are more methods to acquire gear.

    Also I take issue with: "it’s gonna take more than two weeks because the dungeons are hard, but that’s ok. Hard dungeons are fun! Fine."

    That's only true if the dungeons are fun/interesting to play in the first place, and there are enough to them to keep that interesting. That was absolutely NOT the case in Cataclysm. There were too few dungeons, and they were tedious and finicky. Hard dungeons are fun when they require to think on your feet, play well against bosses, have good routes and so on (though I personally loathe most "skips" that involve any kind of trick/reset, but that's just me). That was not what was going on in Cataclysm. Cataclysm dungeons in the early expansion were hard solely because it was a case of "CC certain mobs or die". That was it. So it was much more about marking for CC and then avoiding breaking it (generally easy but tedious unless cretins were in your group). Oh occasionally mobs had to be pulled in a certain way/timing too. But it was boring, systemic, procedural stuff. The bosses were exciting the first time or two because they were hilariously overtuned and you had to blow everything and play smart to stay alive (on Heroic), but then they got really boring, because most of them had a ton of bullshit you had to deal with, but it was boring bullshit. I never thought I'd miss tank-and-spank bosses, but when almost every boss has some kind of bullshit "do this one weird trick or lose" mechanic I'm just rolling my eyes.

    The launch Cataclysm dungeons are, to this day, some of the worst-designed dungeons in WoW. Ugly, slow, boring, loaded with "lol fuck you" mechanics, and full of themselves story-wise. Even the ones that weren't just outright fugly managed to take a potentially-cool look and make it dull (the air elemental and egyptian ones). The later dungeons were much better, but I'd mostly given up on Cata after doing the first two raids on Heroic and just finding the whole thing interminable.

    I guess if you ran them as much as you say, you must have felt differently, but UGH. And let's be clear - I was really good at them. People were begging me to take them through them. But they're so ugly, slow and tedious. WoD's dungeons were also pretty shit but at least they weren't as tedious. I remember when they nerfed them I was pleased not because they were easier (I didn't need anything from them), but because they became effectively significantly faster and less tedious.

    And the sad thing is I was surrounded by good people I liked playing with, going into Cata. We'd just come out of doing great in Wrath and were kind of pumped.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-30 at 03:06 PM.
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  15. #235
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    I'm amazed that people still didn't learn the lesson from WoD and how it handled LFR.

    Stop being asshurt by what others can obtain, and you'll become a better person. LFR and its engagement by players literally justifies the resources spent on raids. Get over it already.

    And I mained Survival Hunter, a RANGED Survival Hunter. RIP.
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  16. #236
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    I'm maining a spec.
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Yeah that's a matter of perspective. I find Essences are a lot less awful, but YMMV.



    Son, my face here is incredibly skeptical. It's obviously not impossible but you must have been running those dungeons over and over so much long after you'd got literally every bit of loot from them (because in early Cata, that's all they offered, shit-tier loot, that includes the Heroic versions - I mean, you took what you could get but fuck).



    Yeah this is mostly true and then for some reason you just decide to lie wildly about Legion? Why? It's transparently bollocks.

    Legion had massive AP catch-up. I had a friend who didn't come back until 8.2 or 8.2.5 or something, and his character was caught up to mine in absolutely no time. I also had alts catch up really quick. Legion had distinct phases, just like all the other expansions. Early Legion was horrible, mid-Legion was okay, and late Legion was basically easier to catch up than any other expansion except late Wrath/late Cata.

    BfA also had phases, but it had countervailing factors at all times, which was unfortunate. For example, once they put in the "jump to L50 heart" that saved an insane amount of grind, but they also put in Essences and then Corruptions, and increased the grind. Still, you're exaggerating what it takes to get to "semi-competent" levels of raiding, which is what, Normal/Heroic-level raid-appropriate gear?

    And the other big difference is that in both Legion and BfA there are more methods to acquire gear.

    Also I take issue with: "it’s gonna take more than two weeks because the dungeons are hard, but that’s ok. Hard dungeons are fun! Fine."

    That's only true if the dungeons are fun/interesting to play in the first place, and there are enough to them to keep that interesting. That was absolutely NOT the case in Cataclysm. There were too few dungeons, and they were tedious and finicky. Hard dungeons are fun when they require to think on your feet, play well against bosses, have good routes and so on (though I personally loathe most "skips" that involve any kind of trick/reset, but that's just me). That was not what was going on in Cataclysm. Cataclysm dungeons in the early expansion were hard solely because it was a case of "CC certain mobs or die". That was it. So it was much more about marking for CC and then avoiding breaking it (generally easy but tedious unless cretins were in your group). Oh occasionally mobs had to be pulled in a certain way/timing too. But it was boring, systemic, procedural stuff. The bosses were exciting the first time or two because they were hilariously overtuned and you had to blow everything and play smart to stay alive (on Heroic), but then they got really boring, because most of them had a ton of bullshit you had to deal with, but it was boring bullshit. I never thought I'd miss tank-and-spank bosses, but when almost every boss has some kind of bullshit "do this one weird trick or lose" mechanic I'm just rolling my eyes.

    The launch Cataclysm dungeons are, to this day, some of the worst-designed dungeons in WoW. Ugly, slow, boring, loaded with "lol fuck you" mechanics, and full of themselves story-wise. Even the ones that weren't just outright fugly managed to take a potentially-cool look and make it dull (the air elemental and egyptian ones). The later dungeons were much better, but I'd mostly given up on Cata after doing the first two raids on Heroic and just finding the whole thing interminable.

    I guess if you ran them as much as you say, you must have felt differently, but UGH. And let's be clear - I was really good at them. People were begging me to take them through them. But they're so ugly, slow and tedious. WoD's dungeons were also pretty shit but at least they weren't as tedious. I remember when they nerfed them I was pleased not because they were easier (I didn't need anything from them), but because they became effectively significantly faster and less tedious.

    And the sad thing is I was surrounded by good people I liked playing with, going into Cata. We'd just come out of doing great in Wrath and were kind of pumped.
    I mostly gave up on Legion after first patch, so you’re probably right. But before that the catch up for legendaries was non existent and ap catch up was slow. IMO Legion legendaries was the worst system in the history of wow.

    In Cata, there was a valor point cap too, right? So I ran them for valor after the gear. I don’t remember feeling like the rep requirements were at all onerous, and I definitely got a lot of valor gear.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I mostly gave up on Legion after first patch, so you’re probably right. But before that the catch up for legendaries was non existent and ap catch up was slow. IMO Legion legendaries was the worst system in the history of wow.
    Maybe you shouldn't have included Legion in the list then lol? Just saying!

    Legion started off appalling, like APPALLING OMG. And then it improved so much on this, that most people basically forgot it ever was appalling in the later patches. The AP catch was massive and rapid. The availability of legendaries steadily improved from "shite" to "okay I guess" to "just buy the one you want with this new currency" over the expansion. It did undeniably start out fucking horrible though.

    It's an expansion where catch-up went from nothing (and was also really alt-unfriendly, because of the way it worked), to excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    In Cata, there was a valor point cap too, right? So I ran them for valor after the gear. I don’t remember feeling like the rep requirements were at all onerous, and I definitely got a lot of valor gear.
    As I recall, the cap was pretty low. However it worked out, it was largely worthless for me to run more than a couple of Heroics a week whilst raiding (which I usually did to help people or complete achievements). Also the pricing on the gear meant it was a very slow way to get geared IIRC.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    If this is true why do they make less raids now than they did in the past when lfr did not exist.
    You mean in BC and Wrath when they made 3 dungeons and a raid or 4 dungeons all basically looking the same using the same resources? Or Wrath with a rehashed Naxx, 2 raids in the same room, adding another boss to the same raid each tier? Or in Cata where every every raid was a recycled location that they'd already made a dungeon for and the half tier that wouldn't have been a copy/paste (the water half of firelands) was cut? Easy to make more raids when you can just copy/paste your art assets then add new mobs.

    By comparison was Mogu'shan Vaults a copy of three other mogu dungeons we'd already done? Was HoF a copy of three other mantid dungeons? Etc etc? See. The moment they had LFR and would look at the bean counters and say "This stuff is work making" we got raids with unique appearances, longer raids, more bosses, etc.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  20. #240
    I'm pretty sure the reason they nerf off-specs is that it would make multi-role classes extremely powerful. Then again they also nerf the multi-role classes in various ways making them annoying. E.g. try to compare a monk's DPS to the swiss army knife and massive damage of a mage and you realize those off specs are just crap even if they didn't nerf them by prioritizing the main spec.

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