Marksmanship is severely focus starved on beta.

[Chaosweaver]

I understand that everyone has very few haste in the beginning of the expansion, but I literally had no focus to spare on Precise Shot procs.

The last absolutely uncalled for blanked nerfs to Marksmanship (gutting of Master Marksman, reduction of focus regeneration of RF and focus cost increase of all shots) totally screwed the spec and we hardly even have any focus to spend during Trueshot. 20 focus for Arcane Shot is just madness.

The Dead Eye talent is currently dead since the AiS cd reduction is wasted, we just don't have enough focus to make use of it. This directly reduces the power of Frayed Shot.

The above-mentioned nerfs must be reverted or we will be doomed to never use Precise Shots for the first tier or so.

Edit: Yes I tried Steady Focus - it now only reaches 7% and is in my opinion a useless underwhelming talent.

[Sondrelk]

From playing MM on the PTR with haste stacked mythic level gear I can tell you that as it currently stands MM will likely not end up using Arcane shot at all unless it either gets a massive buff to damage or focus cost. If the spec still plays like ass with above 30% unbuffed haste the spec won't play any better at low haste, though it might at the very least give us less dead space in the rotation.

[aceperson]

it's almost like blizzard doesn't know what they're doing and refuses to listen to our feedback...

[Queen of Hamsters]

it's almost like blizzard doesn't know what they're doing and refuses to listen to our feedback...

^ This.

Can't believe how stubborn they're being with turning classes into shit rather than fun.

[Krimzin]

^ This.

Can't believe how stubborn they're being with turning classes into shit rather than fun.

I don't think they are being stubborn. I think if you ask anyone.. you would get same answer.. My class in under powered compared to X Class.
Hardest part of any game is balancing classes and abilities.
If you aren't happy with how they have changed MM, play a different class.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't think they are being stubborn. I think if you ask anyone.. you would get same answer.. My class in under powered compared to X Class.
Hardest part of any game is balancing classes and abilities.
If you aren't happy with how they have changed MM, play a different class.

I'm not talking balancing, slick.

I'm talking gameplay. Synergy.

[Chaosweaver]

I don't think they are being stubborn. I think if you ask anyone.. you would get same answer.. My class in under powered compared to X Class.
Hardest part of any game is balancing classes and abilities.
If you aren't happy with how they have changed MM, play a different class.

Good thing I leveled up a Mage so I have a good and strong class to switch to for Shadowlands. Hunters are just never going to be taken as seriously as Mage or Warlock.

[Krimzin]

I'm not talking balancing, slick.

I'm talking gameplay. Synergy.

Umm Ya. Ok.
This entire post has been about MM being focus starved thus not being able to use certain abilities making them weaker.
Balancing allows them to tweak focus regen, so that you will be able to use said abilities.
So your retort does not hold water. MM for the past month has been toward top of dps list, but with recent changes it has dropped and more of these post pop up.
No one wants to play a weak class.
So tell yourself all you like that its about lol Synergy and gameplay, but if MM were at the top of the dps list you wouldn't have a problem.

[Delano]

So instead of giving feedback on how an underpowered spec/class should be fixed we should just go play another one...

"Love it or leave it", always an intelligent response.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Umm Ya. Ok.
This entire post has been about MM being focus starved thus not being able to use certain abilities making them weaker.
Balancing allows them to tweak focus regen, so that you will be able to use said abilities.
So your retort does not hold water. MM for the past month has been toward top of dps list, but with recent changes it has dropped and more of these post pop up.
No one wants to play a weak class.
So tell yourself all you like that its about lol Synergy and gameplay, but if MM were at the top of the dps list you wouldn't have a problem.

How about you piss off with trying to tell me how I feel and admit you responded to someone not adhering to your reasoning on this matter.

Look at any posts I've made about my class in recent years, not a single one whinges about "balance". I want my class to be fun in its gameplay. Get over yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

So instead of giving feedback on how an underpowered spec/class should be fixed we should just go play another one...

"Love it or leave it", always an intelligent response.

Indeed. Or in regards to actual gameplay of the class.
If all I cared about was balance, I'd jump between the current strongest class. I've stuck with my class through thick and thin for 11 years. Not everyone has a FOTM-mindset.

[Krimzin]

How about you piss off with trying to tell me how I feel and admit you responded to someone not adhering to your reasoning on this matter.

Look at any posts I've made about my class in recent years, not a single one whinges about "balance". I want my class to be fun in its gameplay. Get over yourself.

Not sure why you are so up in arms, I was making a simple observation.

Balancing is gameplay. Balancing is Synergy. Balancing makes the class what it is.

Balancing defines how smooth a rotation is. Balance defines if you are focus starved.

Balance is life for every class. So tell me again how your post isn't about balance.

Balance decides how strong or weak your class is.

If you truly don't get that, then I cant help you.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not sure why you are so up in arms, I was making a simple observation.

Balancing is gameplay. Balancing is Synergy. Balancing makes the class what it is.

Balancing defines how smooth a rotation is. Balance defines if you are focus starved.

Balance is life for every class. So tell me again how your post isn't about balance.

Balance decides how strong or weak your class is.

If you truly don't get that, then I cant help you.

Way to move the goalposts there, champ.

Sad day when people can't admit to being wrong. Your posts spelled out exactly how your reasoning about how the class plays, differs from mine. Add to that the insipid little "if you don't like it, play a different class" and we've come full circle.

I wouldn't care if my class was at the bottom of every damage meter, if I at least could enjoy how it played. If you enjoy a class simply based on doing the most damage, that's on you. I need the way in which one brings out performance of the class, to be fun. The difference is MoP Survival vs WoD Survival. WoD BM vs BfA BM.

You not getting it =/= I don't get exactly what you're saying, but still disagreeing. My post isn't about balance, it's about the design of the class and how it plays. Period. So I'll reiterate: Get over yourself.

We're done here. I know exactly what I mean by not finding my class fun to play. I don't need some random to come in and tell me what I "ackchually" mean.

[oplawlz]

I don't think they are being stubborn. I think if you ask anyone.. you would get same answer.. My class in under powered compared to X Class.
Hardest part of any game is balancing classes and abilities.
If you aren't happy with how they have changed MM, play a different class.

This isn't about power though. It's the same issue spriests had before they got their rework - it just feels terrible to play. The MM kit is fundamentally broken with the current focus generation and tuning.

[Queen of Hamsters]

This isn't about power though. It's the same issue spriests had before they got their rework - it just feels terrible to play. The MM kit is fundamentally broken with the current focus generation and tuning.

He's the kind of player who'd choose to play a 1-button spec if it did the most damage, it seems. And he assumes everyone functions the same way.

Can't do much about someone with that kind of reasoning. I'd rather not play at all if I was expected to bring a spec even more brainnumbingly boring than what I already have. And those agreeing, should continue to give feedback not about balance vs other specs, but in regards to HOW our class plays.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Not sure why you are so up in arms, I was making a simple observation.

Balancing is gameplay. Balancing is Synergy. Balancing makes the class what it is.

Balancing defines how smooth a rotation is. Balance defines if you are focus starved.

Balance is life for every class. So tell me again how your post isn't about balance.

Balance decides how strong or weak your class is.

If you truly don't get that, then I cant help you.

Balance and gameplay are not the same. If Aimed Shot were the only button that MM had, it could be balanced on single target against other specs. It would also be terrible gameplay. You can have a terrible broken class design be top of the damage meters. That doesn't make its terrible broken design good.

[Krimzin]

Way to move the goalposts there, champ.

Sad day when people can't admit to being wrong. Your posts spelled out exactly how your reasoning about how the class plays, differs from mine. Add to that the insipid little "if you don't like it, play a different class" and we've come full circle.

I wouldn't care if my class was at the bottom of every damage meter, if I at least could enjoy how it played. If you enjoy a class simply based on doing the most damage, that's on you. I need the way in which one brings out performance of the class, to be fun. The difference is MoP Survival vs WoD Survival. WoD BM vs BfA BM.

You not getting it =/= I don't get exactly what you're saying, but still disagreeing. My post isn't about balance, it's about the design of the class and how it plays. Period. So I'll reiterate: Get over yourself.

We're done here. I know exactly what I mean by not finding my class fun to play. I don't need some random to come in and tell me what I "achtually" mean.

I think you may have more issues than just your class. No one is attacking you, yet you come off like an Angry Murlock. The passive aggressive parts of your post show more insight than anything. I do find the use of the word Champ, Cute.. reminds me of my Grand Dad.
We have all been unhappy at times but jumping down someones throat because you want them to feel as bad as you, isnt really needed.

If you are truly that unhappy why are you playing? I suspect that there is more to the story.

Ive mained a Hunter in one form or another since Vanilla, when you couldn't use a pet in Molten Core because Pet AI was so horrible, so I know all about the plight of the WoW Hunter. For the past several expansions, BM has been in a good place, MM has been lacking and Surv was almost non existent. The chances of Blizzard making 3 solid specs for one class is Zero.
If you are just not happy with how the class plays and expect them to rebuild it.. lol good luck. I actually enjoy MM on PTR.
You would be better off finding a different class and/or not playing.

[Sondrelk]

^ This.

Can't believe how stubborn they're being with turning classes into shit rather than fun.

The hunter specs are majorly shit right now, that being said I don't think the devs are being malicious about it. Rather I think the devs have just completely lost control of what they want the specs to be about.

Take for instance Mages, who are the golden standard on class identity. You have the choice of 3 specs with distinct effects and more importantly, distinct styles of play. The way you know you are playing each class correctly is completely different. For Frost you are doing things correctly if you get tons of procs, for Fire Mage you are doing things correctly if you get loads of crits and pyroblasts, and for Arcane you are playing correctly if you never have to stop and wait for Mana.

With Hunter, MM and Survival specifically there is nothing like that. What, for instance is the endgame of MM. In Uldir it was to build up to a massive guaranteed crit AiS, but after they nerfed that playstyle I have no idea, if you go by the azerite it seems to be about getting lucky with Rapid Fire reset procs.
Same with Survival. What is the class supposed ot be about? Is it about fighting with your pet in melee? Using gadgets? Skillfully weaving melee and ranged? I have no clue, and I feel that if you asked a dev to summarize what is Survival "moment of glory" in the rotation they would have no clue.

I don't think the devs are malicious, but they definitely don't seem to have a clue what the classes are supposed to be about.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I think you may have more issues than just your class. No one is attacking you, yet you come off like an Angry Murlock. The passive aggressive parts of your post show more insight than anything. I do find the use of the word Champ, Cute.. reminds me of my Grand Dad.
We have all been unhappy at times but jumping down someones throat because you want them to feel as bad as you, isnt really needed.

If you are truly that unhappy why are you playing? I suspect that there is more to the story.

Ive mained a Hunter in one form or another since Vanilla, when you couldn't use a pet in Molten Core because Pet AI was so horrible, so I know all about the plight of the WoW Hunter. For the past several expansions, BM has been in a good place, MM has been lacking and Surv was almost non existent. The chances of Blizzard making 3 solid specs for one class is Zero.
If you are just not happy with how the class plays and expect them to rebuild it.. lol good luck. I actually enjoy MM on PTR.
You would be better off finding a different class and/or not playing.

Thanks for proving my point. You're not as insightful as you like to think, slick.

And I'll object to complete strangers pressuming to know how I reason and feel on something, in stark contrast to what I'm literally saying. If you can't handle biteback, don't enter the pit to begin with.

Like others have said as well, your ideas =/= the only reality on this topic. And I'll continue giving my feedback regardless of your defeatist attitude towards things.

- - - Updated - - -

The hunter specs are majorly shit right now, that being said I don't think the devs are being malicious about it. Rather I think the devs have just completely lost control of what they want the specs to be about.

Take for instance Mages, who are the golden standard on class identity. You have the choice of 3 specs with distinct effects and more importantly, distinct styles of play. The way you know you are playing each class correctly is completely different. For Frost you are doing things correctly if you get tons of procs, for Fire Mage you are doing things correctly if you get loads of crits and pyroblasts, and for Arcane you are playing correctly if you never have to stop and wait for Mana.

With Hunter, MM and Survival specifically there is nothing like that. What, for instance is the endgame of MM. In Uldir it was to build up to a massive guaranteed crit AiS, but after they nerfed that playstyle I have no idea, if you go by the azerite it seems to be about getting lucky with Rapid Fire reset procs.
Same with Survival. What is the class supposed ot be about? Is it about fighting with your pet in melee? Using gadgets? Skillfully weaving melee and ranged? I have no clue, and I feel that if you asked a dev to summarize what is Survival "moment of glory" in the rotation they would have no clue.

I don't think the devs are malicious, but they definitely don't seem to have a clue what the classes are supposed to be about.

Not being malicious about it won't change the fact that I take it personally that I haven't been able to enjoy any of the specs in my class for an entire expansion, starting in Legion.

You're completely right on the money though, I'd wager. They lack clear vision and ability to bring out what developers before them were able to. I'm not looking forward to SL as much as I would, simply because I now know that my class will be just as uninteresting, if not worse, than in BfA. Yes they've added some buttons back, but that doesn't make up for actual fun design.

[KrayZ33]

Not sure why you are so up in arms, I was making a simple observation.

Balancing is gameplay. Balancing is Synergy. Balancing makes the class what it is.

Balancing defines how smooth a rotation is. Balance defines if you are focus starved.

Balance is life for every class. So tell me again how your post isn't about balance.

Balance decides how strong or weak your class is.

If you truly don't get that, then I cant help you.

How can you be so full of shit?
This thread isn't about damage like you made it look like.

If autoshot would be the best way to deal damage and it would top the meters, it would still be a dumb spec/class to play.

When I need to cast 100 steady shots to do one arcane shot, it would still be a dumb spec/class to play.

so this

I don't think they are being stubborn. I think if you ask anyone.. you would get same answer.. My class in under powered compared to X Class.
Hardest part of any game is balancing classes and abilities.
If you aren't happy with how they have changed MM, play a different class.

doesn't freaking matter, they have to bring the spec in line with it's own abilities and ressources first.
If I, as an example, can't use 50% of my dps-toolset because priorities mean I won't ever use them for anything, then it's broken. No matter how much damage the class deals.

If you have 10 procs you need to press but you never press the ones from 6-10, because 1-5 lit up again before you do that, then the class design is broken. If a talent does effectively get no use whatsoever because the cooldown reduction can't be used, that talent is broken.

And getting a spec to work properly in a vacuum, is certainly *not* the hardest part to balance in WoW.
Especially not when MM has basically just a ressource, a generator and 2 spenders as a core.

These are obviously exaggerations, but I feel like you won't understand otherwise.

[Duskpanther]

So to let me understand since nobody invited me to beta... MM hunters damage is fine now but rotation/abilities/sinergy sucks ? (OFF topic, what about BM ?) Just would like to understand better before I waste 1-2 weeks leveling to 60 to just then discover that as every time the class I leveled and invested time is shit and I got to relevel another ...