1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Sub-race or sub-faction ideas?

    In light with more (and hopefully more) customizations, I'm thinking that perhaps the time has come for sub-races and/or sub-factions and more categorization for QoL purposes? What would be your ideas for them?

    Here's my ideas:

    (disclaimer: when "all classes", I meant "all available classes"

    Alliance

    Human:
    Stormwindian proper: all classes
    Lightforged: Priest, Paladin -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes
    Dalarani: Mage -> blue/purple eyes, blue/purple runic tattoos, long beard

    Dwarf:
    Bronzebeard proper: all classes
    Lightforged: Paladin, Warrior -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes
    Wildhammer: Shaman, Warrior -> blue/yellow/yellow tattoos, other Wildhammer stuff

    Night Elf:
    Darnassian proper: all classes except Mage
    Night Warrior: all classes except Mage (and perhaps Paladin?) -> Night Warrior stuffs
    Highborne: Mage, Warrior, Priest -> bluer skin, whiter hair, Shen'dralar stuffs
    Illidari: Demon Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Rogue -> horns, more fel saturation in eyes, fel runic tattoos, fel skin

    Draenei
    Exodari proper: all classes
    Broken: all classes except Paladin -> Broken Draenei stuffs
    Man'ari lethargics: Warlock, Warrior, Mage, Demon Hunter -> Man'ari stuffs

    Void Elf
    First Generation: all classes
    Second Generation: all classes except Warlock -> fair skin, lesser tentacles, blue eyes
    Farstrider: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue -> Blue/Green/Silver Farstrider tattoos
    Void Ascendant: all classes ->more tentacles, old god eyes, extra eyes, more sinister vibes, translucent skin to match elemental vibes

    Kul Tiran Human
    Kul Tiran proper: all classes
    Thornspeaker Drust: all classes except Priest -> somewhat bulkier build with Drust aesthetics
    __________________________________________________________________________________________

    Horde

    Troll
    Darkspear proper: all classes
    Frost Troll: all classes -> blue skin, white/gray/silver hair
    Forest Troll: all classes except Mage -> green skin
    Dark Troll: all classes except Mage -> purple skin, darker hair
    Sand Troll: all classes -> brown/beige skin

    Tauren
    Bloodhoof proper: all classes
    Taunka: all classes except Paladin -> blue skin, white hair
    Grimtotem: all classes except Paladin -> dark skin, white/darker hair

    Forsaken:
    Lordaeronian proper: all classes
    Dalarani: Mage -> blue/purple eyes, blue/purple runic tattoos, long beards?
    Forgotten Shadow: Priest, Warlock, Death Knight -> black/white eyes, yellowish runic tattoos, darker skin
    Leonid's Argents: Priest, Mage, Warrior -> lighter skin, more intact body and flesh (and perhaps gold eyes?)
    Thalassian: all classes -> undead skin, red eyes, cracks on lips, Dark Ranger/Darkfallen stuffs

    Blood Elf:
    Blood Elven proper: all classes except Hunter
    High Elf: all classes except Warlock and Demon Hunter -> blue eyes, more lighter colored hair
    Magister: Mage, Warrior, Priest -> arcane runic tattoos
    Farstrider: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue -> Red/Green/Gold Farstrider tattoos
    Blood Knight: Priest, Paladin -> golden eyes, golden tattoos (but not naaru-ish, enough to distinguish them from Lightforged)
    Illidari: Demon Hunter, Warlock, Mage, Warrior -> horns, more fel saturation in eyes, fel runic tattoos, fel skin

    Nightborne
    Nightborne proper: all classes
    Moonguard Highborne: all classes -> almost Night Elf build but ears are still pointed upwards

    the rest idk yet
    Last edited by Ardenaso; 2020-10-18 at 03:19 AM.
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves

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    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  2. #2
    I would give Nightbirne a night elf Highborne option

    I would also give Nightborne a Valewalker option which you can use a night elf model or a nightborne model.

    The models can choose between night elf ears or nightborne ears, body size can switch between night elf and nightborne. But only available on the Highborne and Valewalker options.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Phaelia's Avatar
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    They won’t ever do this. It’s far too complicated of a system. They’d rather just have customization options be just that. I doubt they’d make it be class restrictive or add new name plates to the races because that’s what some people want at the end of the day, not the actual appearance. They want to be a High Elf or Wildhammer Dwarf cemented in name.
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  4. #4
    I don't think they'd make it class restrictive as much as that, but it's likely you won't be able to be some classes with some options, like you won't be able to be a blood elf paladin with red eyes.

    however I view this more as a way to organise character creation, and is more a way of select a preset template of sorts.

    So if you click on blood elf, you have a slew of options to the side, like Magister, Illidari, Darkfallen, Farstrider, if you click on one of them it will give you a preset template with a range of options you can customise but it will hide some of the other options and classes you can't select with those options, you can load the rest of the options up by deselecting the sub-race you picked but bear in mind that loading certain class options will change the availabiity of some options.


    Here is an example I grabbed from Moira over on EU forums








    This lady is doing versions for what every race might look like, I'll try and find the link with more examples.

    - - - Updated - - -















    - - - Updated - - -

    The way imagine this for dwarves for example is that you still have both the dwarf race icon and dark iron dwarf icon on the main character creation screen, however you can also access dark iron after clicking on the dwarf icon, and vice versa, clicking on the dark iron icon (because it's a race) will lead you to the same multi dwarf race scrren, where you can switch to a bronzebeard or wildhammer without zooming out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and I know the Nightborne template didn't show it, but I'd still would give Nightborne a Highborne option that opens up access to a modified night elf model (that will have the nightborne pose, but night elf body size or nightborne body size you can toggle

    I would also give Nightborne a Valewalker option which you can use a night elf model or a nightborne model.

    The models can choose between night elf ears or nightborne ears, body size can switch between night elf and nightborne. But only available on the Highborne and Valewalker options.

  5. #5
    Epic! Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    What would Zandalari get?

    New to Mafia, sorry if I mess up!
    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    What would Zandalari get?
    They’d probably add unique features for each Loa caste and isolate them like that.

    Or just add them to the Troll list, unlike the night elves and Thalassians, all the trolls and dwarves are on the same faction so they can share the same screen menu

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    They won’t ever do this. It’s far too complicated of a system. They’d rather just have customization options be just that. I doubt they’d make it be class restrictive or add new name plates to the races because that’s what some people want at the end of the day, not the actual appearance. They want to be a High Elf or Wildhammer Dwarf cemented in name.
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I don't think they'd make it class restrictive as much as that
    that sucks, I just wanted to not see Dark Ranger Paladins, High Elf Warlocks, or Dark Ranger Demon Hunters or something like that



    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    but it's likely you won't be able to be some classes with some options, like you won't be able to be a blood elf paladin with red eyes.

    however I view this more as a way to organise character creation, and is more a way of select a preset template of sorts.

    So if you click on blood elf, you have a slew of options to the side, like Magister, Illidari, Darkfallen, Farstrider, if you click on one of them it will give you a preset template with a range of options you can customise but it will hide some of the other options and classes you can't select with those options, you can load the rest of the options up by deselecting the sub-race you picked but bear in mind that loading certain class options will change the availabiity of some options.


    Here is an example I grabbed from Moira over on EU forums
    and they could have collaborated with that ^
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that sucks, I just wanted to not see Dark Ranger Paladins, High Elf Warlocks, or Dark Ranger Demon Hunters or something like that

    I think they wouldn't want that either. I wouldn't too. But sooner or later you'd have people QQing, why can't we have red eyed DHs or paladins.

    What I hope the customisation template/presets do is prevent those situations. Customisation is to also allow access to some of those other options in other groups we see.

    THis is a really good thing, but there is established lore for certain apperanes, and this needs to be preserved. It gives flavour , diversity and character to the race that shouldn't be standardised arosss it.

    Therefore mindful restrictions should be implemented.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I would give Nightbirne a night elf Highborne option

    I would also give Nightborne a Valewalker option which you can use a night elf model or a nightborne model.

    The models can choose between night elf ears or nightborne ears, body size can switch between night elf and nightborne. But only available on the Highborne and Valewalker options.
    yeah lets piss us alliance even more of by giving the nightborne the other elf allied race the alliance wants but never is going to get. Like with the "high elves". smart move :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    In light with more (and hopefully more) customizations, I'm thinking that perhaps the time has come for sub-races and/or sub-factions and more categorization for QoL purposes? What would be your ideas for them?

    Here's my ideas:

    Alliance

    Human:
    Stormwindian proper: all classes
    Lightforged: Priest, Paladin -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes
    Dalarani: Mage -> blue/purple eyes, blue/purple runic tattoos, long beard

    Dwarf:
    Bronzebeard proper: all classes
    Lightforged: Paladin, Warrior -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes
    Wildhammer: Shaman, Warrior -> blue/yellow/yellow tattoos, other Wildhammer stuff

    Night Elf:
    Darnassian proper: all classes except Mage
    Night Warrior: all classes except Mage (and perhaps Paladin?) -> Night Warrior stuffs
    Highborne: Mage, Warrior, Priest -> bluer skin, whiter hair, Shen'dralar stuffs
    Illidari: Demon Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Rogue -> horns, more fel saturation in eyes, fel runic tattoos, fel skin

    Draenei
    Exodari proper: all classes
    Broken: all classes except Paladin -> Broken Draenei stuffs
    Man'ari lethargics: Warlock, Warrior, Mage, Demon Hunter -> Man'ari stuffs

    Void Elves
    First Generation: all classes
    Second Generation: all classes except Warlock -> fair skin, lesser tentacles, blue eyes
    Farstrider: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue -> Blue/Green/Silver Farstrider tattoos
    Void Ascendant: all classes ->more tentacles, old god eyes, extra eyes, more sinister vibes, translucent skin to match elemental vibes

    Kul Tiran Human
    Kul Tiran proper: all classes
    Thornspeaker Drust: all classes except Priest -> somewhat bulkier build with Drust aesthetics
    Cool idea. But are some of them not already ingame?
    But as alliance member ill repsond/add


    Human:
    Stormwindian proper: all classes What, how do they look. whats different about them vs other humans?
    Lightforged: Priest, Paladin -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes could be nice . and would work with turralion at the helm
    Dalarani: Mage -> blue/purple eyes, blue/purple runic tattoos, long beard kirin tor should be neutral. but also a good options
    middle eastern: male/female looks like wrathions human form
    vry'kul proto human form?

    Dwarf:
    Bronzebeard proper: all classes again we have that already. whats the difference
    Lightforged: Paladin, Warrior -> golden eyes, golden naaru runes good idea again
    Wildhammer: Shaman, Warrior -> blue/yellow/yellow tattoos, other Wildhammer stuff have that already
    nothrend dwarfs; frostbourne like stone looking/frost looking dwarfs

    Night Elf:
    Darnassian proper: all classes except Mage again whats the difference
    Night Warrior: all classes except Mage (and perhaps Paladin?) -> Night Warrior stuffs great idea
    Highborne: Mage, Warrior, Priest -> bluer skin, whiter hair, Shen'dralar stuffs great idea but we already have the looks. So i do not see them adding it. sadly
    Illidari: Demon Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Rogue -> horns, more fel saturation in eyes, fel runic tattoos, fel skin euuhh its a class. So a sub race of them would be silly
    druids of the fang: a night elf version of worgens. more cat based

    Draenei
    Exodari proper: all classes again whats the difference
    Broken: all classes except Paladin -> Broken Draenei stuffs with highbourne and high elves my other wishlist race. but we will never get it. why, because they failed to add it in first place
    Man'ari lethargics: Warlock, Warrior, Mage, Demon Hunter -> Man'ari stuffs yes, could be cool. and bit more hc race for the alliance

    Void Elves
    First Generation: all classes again whats the difference
    Second Generation: all classes except Warlock -> fair skin, lesser tentacles, blue eyes good idea. but we already have that with the new options
    Farstrider: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue -> Blue/Green/Silver Farstrider tattoos you mean alleria. Hell yeah..but again we have that already. We should have gotten that kind of void elf in the first place.
    Void Ascendant: all classes ->more tentacles, old god eyes, extra eyes, more sinister vibes, translucent skin to match elemental vibes yeah a dark version. that would be so cool

    Kul Tiran Human
    Kul Tiran proper: all classes again whats the difference
    Thornspeaker Drust: all classes except Priest -> somewhat bulkier build with Drust aesthetics better said what druids should have looked like in the first place?
    skinny kul tirans and normal kul tirans: give alliance more looks

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    in underlines
    well yeah the proper is the default tab, and those on what we have is on separate tabs to make way for in-lore class allowances and restrictions

    kinda like these ones

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post


















    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    yeah lets piss us alliance even more of by giving the nightborne the other elf allied race the alliance wants but never is going to get. Like with the "high elves". smart move :P
    Actually it is a smart move if you allow the "Highborne" template to give you a body size adjustment so they also get the nightborne skinny model but with Night elf ears only. Highborne can be Mages, priests, hunters, rogues, warriors - so only druids, locks and DHs don't get this option because while a DH could have been highborne originally he is Illidari now, and while he may have been skinny, he's now a melee master magic wielder who'd have gobbled enough demons to gain some mass and hard core training letting him be ripped.

    The difference is that only Nightborne Highborne and Valewalkers have access to the bulkier night elf model, they get to choose between night elf and nightborne ears because it's a feature of the Nightborne, some have night elven ears, and the Acan'dor fruit had an effect on some of them. You can tell that they are Nightborne because of their unique standing animation.

    No one's going to be jealous because the alliance will get the skinny body option and some cool arcane effects on the Highborne page that are from the nightborne.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm thinking easiest way is basically when you select a class, it will hide certain options.

    So if you select Paladin, the Dark ranger preset - which should really be called Dark Fallen, would actaully not appear, nor will Illidari. On the Paladin screen you will have

    1. Thalassian
    2. Sunsworn
    3. Quel'dorei

    To customise. Illidari and Dark Fallen (i.e. dark ranger) don't show up.

    Currently in beta you have to select class before you go to customisation. And while all the sub-race options and templates could be on display in the class selection screen, and you can even click on them, you have to make a class selection before you click customise.

    So lets say you clicked Dark fallen then selected paladin, as soon as you click customise, the screen will remove Dark ragner and illidari from the options, and you'd be free to select one of the 3 remaining to help you customisation, or just fiddle around with the options till you get your desired look.


    I think the minimum they could do without adding quests, starting area or anything like that is do an opening Narration for each group. Theyd on't even need to change the video of the starting scene, just the audio file that explains the situation of each group you clicked. If you didn't click any, it would give the default audio file.

    This way everyone can learn who and what your group is.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    well yeah the proper is the default tab, and those on what we have is on separate tabs to make way for in-lore class allowances and restrictions

    kinda like these ones
    better said Allied races?
    because if you want them as a sub species. Then the options in main species needs to be removed. For instance. If you want highborne elves. They golden eyes/skin color needs to be removed from normal night elves.

    I hope they will do this. But seeing as they added all these options to the races its doubtfull we see any of them.

    Do not get me wrong i would love a highborne, high elf, wild hammer dwarf, broken dreanei. But i am pretty sure that all 4, or atleast the first 3 are off the table.
    A option could be to make it a ally race and keep the looks for the main race. But that would be silly. why do this in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Actually it is a smart move if you allow the "Highborne" template to give you a body size adjustment so they also get the nightborne skinny model but with Night elf ears only. Highborne can be Mages, priests, hunters, rogues, warriors - so only druids, locks and DHs don't get this option because while a DH could have been highborne originally he is Illidari now, and while he may have been skinny, he's now a melee master magic wielder who'd have gobbled enough demons to gain some mass and hard core training letting him be ripped.

    The difference is that only Nightborne Highborne and Valewalkers have access to the bulkier night elf model, they get to choose between night elf and nightborne ears because it's a feature of the Nightborne, some have night elven ears, and the Acan'dor fruit had an effect on some of them. You can tell that they are Nightborne because of their unique standing animation.

    No one's going to be jealous because the alliance will get the skinny body option and some cool arcane effects on the Highborne page that are from the nightborne.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm thinking easiest way is basically when you select a class, it will hide certain options.

    So if you select Paladin, the Dark ranger preset - which should really be called Dark Fallen, would actaully not appear, nor will Illidari. On the Paladin screen you will have

    1. Thalassian
    2. Sunsworn
    3. Quel'dorei

    To customise. Illidari and Dark Fallen (i.e. dark ranger) don't show up.

    Currently in beta you have to select class before you go to customisation. And while all the sub-race options and templates could be on display in the class selection screen, and you can even click on them, you have to make a class selection before you click customise.

    So lets say you clicked Dark fallen then selected paladin, as soon as you click customise, the screen will remove Dark ragner and illidari from the options, and you'd be free to select one of the 3 remaining to help you customisation, or just fiddle around with the options till you get your desired look.


    I think the minimum they could do without adding quests, starting area or anything like that is do an opening Narration for each group. Theyd on't even need to change the video of the starting scene, just the audio file that explains the situation of each group you clicked. If you didn't click any, it would give the default audio file.

    This way everyone can learn who and what your group is.
    On the general idea: i agree
    On highborne: would be nice, would love them as a race or subrace ( not a allied one) or even a allied one. But as we got the option to make them in the barber shop i doubt we will ever seen real life player models that are a sub race or allied race. With their own name for race etc.


    Ohhh you mean instead of race> class. It will be class > race > subrace. Could be cool. But again, they need to remove a lot of options from normal models to make it worth.

    Sounds cool, wish it would happen but it will not. Our wishlist for alliance was broken, high elves, highborne we got non of it. so i am extremly doubtfull we will ever get something decent.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post

    On the general idea: i agree
    On highborne: would be nice, would love them as a race or subrace ( not a allied one) or even a allied one. But as we got the option to make them in the barber shop i doubt we will ever seen real life player models that are a sub race or allied race. With their own name for race etc.
    I'm not even sure Highborne would command any difference from normal night elf option wise - if these presets came. their idea is to help players with the many options and give a name to certain unique options so that they can make a sub-race or at least know that this is what a Wildhammer would look like for example

    The advantage this gives players is extending or solidifying the fantasy of what you play , which is why an opening narrative accompanying the availability of such options is important. In the case of Highborne that would have no distinction from Night elf (default) that is made more pertinent.

    however some distinctions can be made from a default night elf.. e.g the vine option could be missing if you select Highborne, or it could be there but the male vine beard option be missing as that's really a druidic thing. Another difference could be if Highborne had the thin model option (i.e. the nightborne model but with night elf ears and skin colours/hair colours etc). It is unlikely Highborne would have certain unique hairstyles not available to the default night elf template, so it would likely only be things like body type toggle.

    Other options the night elf fans of this have suggested are a toggle between vine and star effects for hair, so the Highborne would have some star effects, presumably like the druid's astral form graphic and some other features. Arcane effects could be added, like a set of star constellation like magical tattoos on their skin added (not available on the normal night elf) or could be available.. the default night elf would have as many options as possible unless you want certain options to be exclusively Highborne. in this case, I would guess you would want the skinny model to be exclusively Highborne, then make a decision whether you want things like vines to be available to Highborne or stars and arcane /star tattoos to be available to the Darnassian default and/or even have unique set of hairstyles available.

    Babershop is a different ball game.. if a hairstyle is unique to the Highborne preset on character creation and hidden on the night elf Darnassian default, barbershop in that case could lift that restriction. Here it is appropriate to do so, because typically a Darnassian would not have that style of hair or beard naturally, so it is missing form their character creation screen, however it is one they can choose to take on, if they so wish. It's been my opinion that barbershop should allow a larger selection of options where appropriate like hairstyles from other races that should not be possible at character selection.

    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Ohhh you mean instead of race> class. It will be class > race > subrace. Could be cool. But again, they need to remove a lot of options from normal models to make it worth.
    No, I didn't mean that, on CC scene you will have the selection of the available races/allied races, it's when you click on one, then you see the class selection options at the bottom of the screen (check the PTR if you have it right now) ,it's on this screen, waiting for you to choose your class that you also see the sub-race options, what I was saying earlier on is that while the sub-race options are visible on this screen and you can select one, the choice is effectively irrelevant as the screen doesn't move on till you select your class.

    So when you select your class, like a blood elf paladin, what happens is that on going to the next screen (which requires clicking customise), it will hide the Dark Fallen and Illidari sub-race choices, because those customisation options cannot be paladin. That was all I was saying.

    I was also saying there should be a difference between the sub-race options you pick on entering the game. while the starting experience is the same regardless of which one you pick, the opening narrative audio will have one for each sub-race option, so Darnassian will say something different from Highborne, Illidari would ofc be the the DH one, and the Undead would be a different narrative, while the DK one would have i'ts own unique one even though it's undead.

    They say they can't do starting experiences for every sub-race combination but wanted to give us the options to play them, I think the things they can do is arrange the CC screen so people know what the various sub-races and factions like Farstrider are and that the opening narrative says something different. That's considerably less work and would go a very long way for the fans

    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Sounds cool, wish it would happen but it will not. Our wishlist for alliance was broken, high elves, highborne we got non of it. so i am extremly doubtfull we will ever get something decent.
    High elves, Highborne as officially electable options under Night elf, Nightborne (Highborne) and under void elf and blood elf (high elves) are quite easily done as Moira's mock ups show. Broken would have to be an allied race, that cannot be a Draenei customisation anymore than Vulpera could be a Goblin customisation.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I'm not even sure Highborne would command any difference from normal night elf option wise - if these presets came. their idea is to help players with the many options and give a name to certain unique options so that they can make a sub-race or at least know that this is what a Wildhammer would look like for example

    The advantage this gives players is extending or solidifying the fantasy of what you play , which is why an opening narrative accompanying the availability of such options is important. In the case of Highborne that would have no distinction from Night elf (default) that is made more pertinent.

    however some distinctions can be made from a default night elf.. e.g the vine option could be missing if you select Highborne, or it could be there but the male vine beard option be missing as that's really a druidic thing. Another difference could be if Highborne had the thin model option (i.e. the nightborne model but with night elf ears and skin colours/hair colours etc). It is unlikely Highborne would have certain unique hairstyles not available to the default night elf template, so it would likely only be things like body type toggle.

    Other options the night elf fans of this have suggested are a toggle between vine and star effects for hair, so the Highborne would have some star effects, presumably like the druid's astral form graphic and some other features. Arcane effects could be added, like a set of star constellation like magical tattoos on their skin added (not available on the normal night elf) or could be available.. the default night elf would have as many options as possible unless you want certain options to be exclusively Highborne. in this case, I would guess you would want the skinny model to be exclusively Highborne, then make a decision whether you want things like vines to be available to Highborne or stars and arcane /star tattoos to be available to the Darnassian default and/or even have unique set of hairstyles available.

    Babershop is a different ball game.. if a hairstyle is unique to the Highborne preset on character creation and hidden on the night elf Darnassian default, barbershop in that case could lift that restriction. Here it is appropriate to do so, because typically a Darnassian would not have that style of hair or beard naturally, so it is missing form their character creation screen, however it is one they can choose to take on, if they so wish. It's been my opinion that barbershop should allow a larger selection of options where appropriate like hairstyles from other races that should not be possible at character selection.
    I think the idea is good. But it is stuck between normal races/allied races/barbershop options. And it would remove current options. And removing things will make a lot of people happy. < sarcasme


    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    No, I didn't mean that, on CC scene you will have the selection of the available races/allied races, it's when you click on one, then you see the class selection options at the bottom of the screen (check the PTR if you have it right now) ,it's on this screen, waiting for you to choose your class that you also see the sub-race options, what I was saying earlier on is that while the sub-race options are visible on this screen and you can select one, the choice is effectively irrelevant as the screen doesn't move on till you select your class.

    So when you select your class, like a blood elf paladin, what happens is that on going to the next screen (which requires clicking customise), it will hide the Dark Fallen and Illidari sub-race choices, because those customisation options cannot be paladin. That was all I was saying.

    I was also saying there should be a difference between the sub-race options you pick on entering the game. while the starting experience is the same regardless of which one you pick, the opening narrative audio will have one for each sub-race option, so Darnassian will say something different from Highborne, Illidari would ofc be the the DH one, and the Undead would be a different narrative, while the DK one would have i'ts own unique one even though it's undead.

    They say they can't do starting experiences for every sub-race combination but wanted to give us the options to play them, I think the things they can do is arrange the CC screen so people know what the various sub-races and factions like Farstrider are and that the opening narrative says something different. That's considerably less work and would go a very long way for the fans
    Oohh like that. good idea. but agian, it causes problems. and it will not happen. it will limit the looks, remove current looks ( what will piss off people). It would be like a water downed version of allied races. would rather see them full on.



    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    High elves, Highborne as officially electable options under Night elf, Nightborne (Highborne) and under void elf and blood elf (high elves) are quite easily done as Moira's mock ups show. Broken would have to be an allied race, that cannot be a Draenei customisation anymore than Vulpera could be a Goblin customisation.

    Your logic here makes not sense.

    Nightborne are horde race. and even if you get the option, they are closer to night elves then void/blood elves . So they would also be under night elf.
    As for broken....they are dreanei.

    Vulpera and goblin are 2 different races. broken and dreanei are both from the same species. 1 is just corrupted version of the other.

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    I'd be happy with customization options to represent all this, which they're sort of doing now and will hopefully continue doing throughout Shadowlands.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    I think the idea is good. But it is stuck between normal races/allied races/barbershop options. And it would remove current options. And removing things will make a lot of people happy. < sarcasme




    Oohh like that. good idea. but agian, it causes problems. and it will not happen. it will limit the looks, remove current looks ( what will piss off people). It would be like a water downed version of allied races. would rather see them full on.
    I'm not sure I follow. How it would remove current looks? As far as I understand this system, picking a preset like Highborne on the night elf screen or Farstrider on the blood elf screen only brings up the relevant options that fit that group, it doesn't prevent you from making anything, if you want options that are not a part of the Farstrider, they're available on the default blood elf, however don't expect the default blood elf to have Illidari options or DK undead options because those aren't normal blood elves.

    Let's imagine that tattoos were part of the Farstrider look for blood elves. Clicking Farstrider would load a template image that had all the key Farstrider features, presumably you would do this after selecting your class, so on hunter you would see the Farstrider icon, on rogue too, once you've clicked those. You probably won't see it on the mage class, however that doesn't mean you can't give your mage tattoos.

    The sub-race options just helps you identify or play a certain group, it doesn't limit your options, it also helps highlight what group is native to some of those features you pick, and gives you a starting narrative audio about the group... I mean that'sh ow I envision it.

    there would be some exceptions, for example you won't be able to select red eyes and translucent skin of the dark ranger /dark fallen if you select Paladin asa class, because red eyes are part of that particular sub-race group.

    and while you have options like Illidari there it really is only available on the Demon hunter class. The warlock class would have the option for a default blood elf and an Illidari. you will be able to select blue eyes on your default blood elf, but that blood elf won't be a Quel'dorei, the blood elf narrative would load on the starting cinematic not the high elf horde audio.

    As far as I am understanding it, the point of these is not to restrict at all, but to organise options and present existing fantasies that have established lore, it helps players immerse further, both those who are aware of the lore and especially those who are not, so their options can have a purpose even if they were not aware that tattoos on blood elves generally meant Farstrider if they were this way or Illidari if they were that way not ot say a default blood elf couldn't have some of those - he could have been raised Farstrider clan but had a talent for magic and switched to it later in life etc.. it gives you a lot more freedom but also gives you options to understand the sub-groups and sub-races that your race


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Your logic here makes not sense.

    Nightborne are horde race. and even if you get the option, they are closer to night elves then void/blood elves . So they would also be under night elf.
    As for broken....they are dreanei.

    Vulpera and goblin are 2 different races. broken and dreanei are both from the same species. 1 is just corrupted version of the other.
    Please elaborate further. Whiles Nightborne are a type of night elf, the night elf selection screen won't have the Nightborne option available at all, because Nightborne are on the horde, the Night elf would have the Highborne option available though because of the Highborne night elf group, on the Highborne option, they could conceivably have a thin model option, which is not a Nightborne but a Highborne that is as thin as a nightborne (it's copied the nightborne model and switched the ears to night elven, with accompanying night elven skin tone options and hair colours ).

    The Nightborne you would select on the horde side of the screen, it will have the option for Nightborne default, Nightfallen, Highborne (the Nightborne version) and Valewalker - on the Highborne version and Valewalker (still on the horde side) you may have the option for a bulkier model which is again a copy of the night elf model, on this model you can adjust the ears to have either the nightborne default one or the night elf one, but which ever you choose, the character is a Nightborne or one of the Night elves allied with the Nightborne which is why you have the option to make this adjustment - the idea is that some of the Nightborne have been healed by the Arcan'dor to have night elven ears, some nightborne never lost the night elven ears (like Elisande and Aluriel), but in addition some Night elves on the broken isles are allied with the Nightborne, like Valewalker Farodin, the Val'sharah refugees that moved to Suramar in 7.0, and the Moonguard in Suramar - this is why you have an option to use a night elf model on the Nightborne, it could be a nightborne or an allied Night elf, just like the void elf can be a racial void elf or a blood elf/high elf who's moved over to the alliance to study the void or (whatever motive you make up)

    Having a narrative audio file for each sub-race preset helps players to understand the options that are there and why they mean. I expect the Highborne and Valewalker option on the Nightborne selection screen would have an opening narrative that explains that some Nightborne have been healed further by the Arcan'dor and some night elves of the broken isles are allied to them seeking to heal or restore their people. or related to their work - like the Valewalkers would be mainly balance oriented druid /nature types, including mages more focused on arcane effects on nature and the theme of balance, so the Valewalker narrative would focus on that rather than on joining the horde which would be the narrative of the default Nightborne.

    I would hazard a guess that players would be familiar with a lot of the options, but they'd still need some introduction or opening narrative to flesh them out.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. How it would remove current looks? As far as I understand this system, picking a preset like Highborne on the night elf screen or Farstrider on the blood elf screen only brings up the relevant options that fit that group, it doesn't prevent you from making anything, if you want options that are not a part of the Farstrider, they're available on the default blood elf, however don't expect the default blood elf to have Illidari options or DK undead options because those aren't normal blood elves.

    Let's imagine that tattoos were part of the Farstrider look for blood elves. Clicking Farstrider would load a template image that had all the key Farstrider features, presumably you would do this after selecting your class, so on hunter you would see the Farstrider icon, on rogue too, once you've clicked those. You probably won't see it on the mage class, however that doesn't mean you can't give your mage tattoos.

    The sub-race options just helps you identify or play a certain group, it doesn't limit your options, it also helps highlight what group is native to some of those features you pick, and gives you a starting narrative audio about the group... I mean that'sh ow I envision it.

    there would be some exceptions, for example you won't be able to select red eyes and translucent skin of the dark ranger /dark fallen if you select Paladin asa class, because red eyes are part of that particular sub-race group.

    and while you have options like Illidari there it really is only available on the Demon hunter class. The warlock class would have the option for a default blood elf and an Illidari. you will be able to select blue eyes on your default blood elf, but that blood elf won't be a Quel'dorei, the blood elf narrative would load on the starting cinematic not the high elf horde audio.

    As far as I am understanding it, the point of these is not to restrict at all, but to organise options and present existing fantasies that have established lore, it helps players immerse further, both those who are aware of the lore and especially those who are not, so their options can have a purpose even if they were not aware that tattoos on blood elves generally meant Farstrider if they were this way or Illidari if they were that way not ot say a default blood elf couldn't have some of those - he could have been raised Farstrider clan but had a talent for magic and switched to it later in life etc.. it gives you a lot more freedom but also gives you options to understand the sub-groups and sub-races that your race




    Please elaborate further. Whiles Nightborne are a type of night elf, the night elf selection screen won't have the Nightborne option available at all, because Nightborne are on the horde, the Night elf would have the Highborne option available though because of the Highborne night elf group, on the Highborne option, they could conceivably have a thin model option, which is not a Nightborne but a Highborne that is as thin as a nightborne (it's copied the nightborne model and switched the ears to night elven, with accompanying night elven skin tone options and hair colours ).

    The Nightborne you would select on the horde side of the screen, it will have the option for Nightborne default, Nightfallen, Highborne (the Nightborne version) and Valewalker - on the Highborne version and Valewalker (still on the horde side) you may have the option for a bulkier model which is again a copy of the night elf model, on this model you can adjust the ears to have either the nightborne default one or the night elf one, but which ever you choose, the character is a Nightborne or one of the Night elves allied with the Nightborne which is why you have the option to make this adjustment - the idea is that some of the Nightborne have been healed by the Arcan'dor to have night elven ears, some nightborne never lost the night elven ears (like Elisande and Aluriel), but in addition some Night elves on the broken isles are allied with the Nightborne, like Valewalker Farodin, the Val'sharah refugees that moved to Suramar in 7.0, and the Moonguard in Suramar - this is why you have an option to use a night elf model on the Nightborne, it could be a nightborne or an allied Night elf, just like the void elf can be a racial void elf or a blood elf/high elf who's moved over to the alliance to study the void or (whatever motive you make up)

    Having a narrative audio file for each sub-race preset helps players to understand the options that are there and why they mean. I expect the Highborne and Valewalker option on the Nightborne selection screen would have an opening narrative that explains that some Nightborne have been healed further by the Arcan'dor and some night elves of the broken isles are allied to them seeking to heal or restore their people. or related to their work - like the Valewalkers would be mainly balance oriented druid /nature types, including mages more focused on arcane effects on nature and the theme of balance, so the Valewalker narrative would focus on that rather than on joining the horde which would be the narrative of the default Nightborne.

    I would hazard a guess that players would be familiar with a lot of the options, but they'd still need some introduction or opening narrative to flesh them out.
    the first part: why it would remove looks.

    Right now you have race/allied race - class
    you want: race/allied rac - sub race -class

    To make a difference between night elves with golden eyes and highborn you either need to give them a new body or remove them from the barber options. Otherwise what is the difference between golden eyed night elf and a highborne? And if you change more, you are pretty much making allied races without racials!
    And there must be a stupid reason why we did not get certain races in the first place. so i doubt they will add them.
    And removing looks will piss off people more.

    I agree that we should be able to play specific version of our race.

    Simple...biology. Nightborne are closer to night elves and highborne then 2 blood elves.

    Again i think your idea is cool. But again you want something that is very impractical. you want a sub race so you can define your hero more as a ( insert specific sub race). But to define it more, you need to make sure other races do not look the same. To do that you either need to remove options to create the looks of the sub race via barber shop or make them more different. And if you make them more different, like saying sub race specific tattoo's, classes, horns etc. You are just making new allied races. Because that is what allied races are.

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