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  1. #21
    Okay, Shadow (or Priest in general) received a slight nerf today with Shadow Word: Death getting decreased damage modificators.

    And we've got the datamine of a reworked Necrolord ability:

    Unholy Nova (New) A ball of latent corruption dwells within your target, dealing [ 60% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage or healing every 1 sec. After 4 sec, bursts on up to 5 allies or enemies within 0 yds for [ 169% of Spell Power ] healing or Shadow damage. Necrolord. Necrolord. 40 yd range. Instant.

    They said this isn't implemented yet and they don't know if they intend to, but I really like this reworked version and would like to see it go live. This actually sounds pretty good (at least for Shadow).
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Okay, Shadow (or Priest in general) received a slight nerf today with Shadow Word: Death getting decreased damage modificators.

    And we've got the datamine of a reworked Necrolord ability:

    Unholy Nova (New) A ball of latent corruption dwells within your target, dealing [ 60% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage or healing every 1 sec. After 4 sec, bursts on up to 5 allies or enemies within 0 yds for [ 169% of Spell Power ] healing or Shadow damage. Necrolord. Necrolord. 40 yd range. Instant.

    They said this isn't implemented yet and they don't know if they intend to, but I really like this reworked version and would like to see it go live. This actually sounds pretty good (at least for Shadow).
    To be fair shadow also recieved two reworked legendary powers which both seems to be pretty good. Tentabro proccing from mind sear, and casting mind sear itself, and the reworked shadowflame prism.

    If the datamined tooltip means you either heal or do damage, depending on the primary target, then it looks promising. Maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's an AOE heal+damage but some extra damage or healing depending on the primary target of the cast. Either way looks better than the current necrolord ability.
    Having atonement only proccing from one instance of the AOE portion is also one way to balance an ability for shadow vs disc, it'd be mechanically like halo or divine star.

    409% damage/heal main target and 169% AOE heal/damage, at a 30s cooldown which the datamining suggested, would numerically put it close to other abilities. Mostly thinking of the shamans Kyrian and Venthyr abilities which are quite comparable. But then it should be "bursts on up to 5 allies AND enemies", not "or".

  3. #23
    Can't have it all. According to most streamers and content creators shadow is far and wide the best designed spec in the game, and it's a top performer in both pvp and pve. But i guess people are never content with what they have.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NeximEU View Post
    To be fair shadow also recieved two reworked legendary powers which both seems to be pretty good. Tentabro proccing from mind sear, and casting mind sear itself, and the reworked shadowflame prism.

    If the datamined tooltip means you either heal or do damage, depending on the primary target, then it looks promising. Maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's an AOE heal+damage but some extra damage or healing depending on the primary target of the cast. Either way looks better than the current necrolord ability.
    Having atonement only proccing from one instance of the AOE portion is also one way to balance an ability for shadow vs disc, it'd be mechanically like halo or divine star.

    409% damage/heal main target and 169% AOE heal/damage, at a 30s cooldown which the datamining suggested, would numerically put it close to other abilities. Mostly thinking of the shamans Kyrian and Venthyr abilities which are quite comparable. But then it should be "bursts on up to 5 allies AND enemies", not "or".
    It definitely looks more promising indeed. I guess it will be most interesting ability for shadow now, but I can imagine holy priests benefiting from that too. As discipline, I would still probably go for Venthyr, because of Schism + Mindgames combo which should be similar to Light's Wrath burst potential, not to mention that discipline is usually pretty mana hungry spec, so every instance of mana regen counts.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Can't have it all. According to most streamers and content creators shadow is far and wide the best designed spec in the game, and it's a top performer in both pvp and pve. But i guess people are never content with what they have.
    A few quick comments to what you write.

    The entire premise of this thread is that shadow is great to play now, but there are still things which need polish. Seeing how this is the priest forum i fail to see why discussing those things are somehow wrong.

    Numbers passes are still pending, which means you can't really tell what the final balance will be, and who will end up being the top performer in any content. BFA shadow was an unfinished mess that felt terrible to play but still had priests as a top performer in raids (after the first tier) due to azerite trait synergies when you could access two rings, and initially good performing in PVP due to the edge of madness bandaid which negated the main aspect of the entire spec (void form). A spec being mechanically sound and it being strong doesn't correlate.
    The few people who complain about priests mechanically are those who liked the old void form, but they are a minority.

    Tbh I'd like to have it all, a smooth and well rounded spec with meaningful and good options when it comes to legendaries and soulbinds. Since priest provide little unique utility like bloodlust, interrupts, etc., it'd also be nice to provide some optional utility or slightly higher damage/healing to make up for that in e.g. M+.

    If you'd like the same for your spec may I suggest you start engaging in meaningful discussion and provide feedback for your preferred class and spec, since you're more likely to succeed by doing that than by initiating some meaningless digital pissing contest.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I do feel like the spec is technically healthier in SL, although I feel like they blindly gave in to people asking for "old" Shadow. As of now, the fantasy of the spec feels wrong. Back in Legion, they made a whole point about how Spriest is all about the mind and now they bring back the "disease" spell without altering its fantasy name just because it feels familiar to the Vanilla players.

    Honestly the whole insanity mechanic feels like it's on life support until they decide to remove it altogether. Problem is that if they do that we will go from half Void spec to no Void spec at all.
    Basically just another half as-* job done by Blizzard to shut some mouths. Why am I not surprised.

  7. #27
    Mindbender seems like the talent choice of that tier with the Rabid Shadows soulbind + Shadowflame prism legendary. Looks fun

  8. #28
    Agreed, but that recent blue post gave me some hope:
    If you really want to go Kyrian on your rogue, but can’t justify it because every guide currently says that the Necrolords’ Serrated Bone Spike is too good to pass up, or if an otherwise appealing covenant has benefits that seem irrelevant in PvP, those are exactly the sorts of imbalance we want to fix, and your feedback is essential to that process. In the coming weeks, we’ll be doing numerical tuning, making changes to underlying ability designs when needed, and potentially leveraging covenant-specific conduits if a covenant needs some targeted shoring up to ensure that they’re viable in a particular type of content.
    Mindgames conduit just needs to guarantee the damage. It currently hits for 300% spellpower and then can convert up to 450% spellpower's worth of healing into damage, so just something like "also deals 300% spellpower damage over the duration" would make it reliable for Shadow in PVE without increasing the average damage, since because DoT would end if the healing convert was fully consumed (and tuning Mindgames this way means it has the opportunity cost of another potency conduit, which kinda sucks, but at the same time it means plenty of room in power budget)
    Last edited by ttylol; 2020-09-11 at 08:52 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    It definitely looks more promising indeed. I guess it will be most interesting ability for shadow now, but I can imagine holy priests benefiting from that too. As discipline, I would still probably go for Venthyr, because of Schism + Mindgames combo which should be similar to Light's Wrath burst potential, not to mention that discipline is usually pretty mana hungry spec, so every instance of mana regen counts.
    The more I think about it the more positive I am about how the new ability is constructed.

    Backloading damage doesn't matter as much for shadow as for disc. The entire "atone the raid and burst" aspect is diminished in strength if the damage takes 4 seconds to be delivered. Not a massive difference, but it's there.
    The AOE portion, with atonement potentially only triggering from one instance of damage, looks to be another good solution to balancing disc vs shadow.
    Having some ST damage aspect makes it a more balanced ability in raids vs M+.
    Being able to chose whether to primarily damage or heal would also make it better balanced for a class with both healing and damage specs.

    Numbers tuning aside, mechanically it seems like a step in the right direction. So looking forward seeing what eventually gets put on the PTR.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttylol View Post
    Agreed, but that recent blue post gave me some hope: Mindgames conduit just needs to guarantee the damage. It currently hits for 300% spellpower and then can convert up to 450% spellpower's worth of healing into damage, so just something like "also deals 300% spellpower damage over the duration" would make it reliable for Shadow in PVE without increasing the average damage, since because DoT would end if the healing convert was fully consumed (and tuning Mindgames this way means it has the opportunity cost of another potency conduit, which kinda sucks, but at the same time it means plenty of room in power budget)
    Mindgames runs the risk of having the entire spec, or class, being balanced around it for PVP already. It's already good for disc because of the atonement healing, with some splash of mana regen. Also disc weakness is ST healing, if you can use the damage absorb portion effectively it shores up one of discs main weaknesses in M+.

    As someone who plays main shadow, and a non insignificant portion of offspec disc, and both PVE and PVP, Venthyr already looks like my #1 pick. Mindgames damage in raids is quite low (2-3% reported), but bosses are more likely to trigger the healing aspect of it which also provide insanity. With the lacking mobility of priests Door of Shadows is a much needed mobility spell. The relative short cooldown on Mindgames makes Theotar's Wasteland Propriety a 5,5% net increase to versatility when used on cooldown (Nadija and Thrill Seeker is a strong conduit for M+ or add fights). Then if you want 3 damage conduits you get Token of Appreciation, it's a nice added bonus that scales with group size into raids, should be equivalent to a PWS or two per minute.

    The damage absorb and healing effect of Mindgames, Token of Appreciation healing, and Wasteland Propriety's versa buffs on others admittedly doesn't make you look good on damage meters. But considering the entire package Venthyr is already in a quite good spot. You will however likely end up trading some personal DPS for offhealing and mobility.

    Necrolord is looking far worse in it's current state, and hopefully can be tuned up a notch to be a good PVE alternative for all content.

  10. #30
    This wednesday or thursday build will prolly have some changes, lets have fingers crossed
    Other than legendaries/covenant abilities i don't think there is any other spec that is as fun as shadow priest right now
    It's amazing and I love every part of it

    And you know what?
    Even with shitty legendaries and/or covenants it will still give me more joy than classes with cool covenant abilities/legendaries...
    That's the level the class design reached in SL...

  11. #31
    Does any of the Covenant skills have any interaction with Priest Mastery? If not, this is the best indicator to tell that all of those skill aren't well-designed.
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  12. #32
    • Eternal Call to the Void Mind Flay has and Mind Sear have a chance to spawn a Void Tendril that channels Mind Flay or Void Lasher that channels at your target for 15 sec, generating 3 insanity when it deals damage every 1 sec. Approximately 2 procs per minute.
    • Shadowflame Prism Your Shadowfiend or Mindbender deals 30% additional damage as Shadowflame damage, and the cooldown on Shadowfiend and Mindbender is reduced by 15%. Shadow: Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death cause your Shadowfiend to teleport behind your target, slashing up to 5 nearby enemies for [ 180% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage. Each time a rift is triggered, the duration of Shadowfiend is increased by 1.5 sec.

    Those 2 legendarys sound pretty cool now. I don't exactly know what a Void Lasher does, probably AOE damage proccing from Mind Sear. So the legendary actually can be usefull in AOe situations as well.
    Last edited by Wrathson; 2020-09-18 at 02:10 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Does any of the Covenant skills have any interaction with Priest Mastery? If not, this is the best indicator to tell that all of those skill aren't well-designed.
    For now shadows mastery increases all damage done which includes trinkets and covenant skills. So you want to pool some insanity to keep dp rolling as long as possible during the time you use them (or use voidform). questionable if this stay for launch though.
    Night fae doesn't benefit from it, but as long as it reduces shadowfiends cooldown and not voidform it seems like you want to go nightfae for a more pet oriented playstyle anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathson View Post
    • Eternal Call to the Void Mind Flay has and Mind Sear have a chance to spawn a Void Tendril that channels Mind Flay or Void Lasher that channels at your target for 15 sec, generating 3 insanity when it deals damage every 1 sec. Approximately 2 procs per minute.
    • Shadowflame Prism Your Shadowfiend or Mindbender deals 30% additional damage as Shadowflame damage, and the cooldown on Shadowfiend and Mindbender is reduced by 15%. Shadow: Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death cause your Shadowfiend to teleport behind your target, slashing up to 5 nearby enemies for [ 180% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage. Each time a rift is triggered, the duration of Shadowfiend is increased by 1.5 sec.

    Those 2 legendarys sound pretty cool now. I don't exactly know what a Void Lasher does, probably AOE damage proccing from Mind Sear. So the legendary actually can be usefull in AOe situations as well.
    It was a bigger tentacle which copied mind sear. It also generated insanity like crazy in dungeons which is probably why it was changed with the latest build. It's still quite good and feels like the "usefull in every situation" legendary.
    But still there is a problem with increased insanity generation. We need Dp to stack like it used to do or we won't chose some skills/legendaries because we overcap insanity in most situations.
    Last edited by Foolicious; 2020-09-18 at 05:35 AM.

  14. #34
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    My biggest gripe with SP right now is the final talent tier.

    Ancient Madness is just a passive buff, nothing exciting.

    Legacy of the Void reverts voidform to the previous version, no way in hell am I doing that.

    Surrender to Madness effect ends when your target dies, which makes it extremely limited in use. Can't use it on ST boss fights because you are literally killing yourself, can't cast it on a weak add for the effect because it is gone as soon as that add dies. This thing only seems useful where there are mobs that will stay alive for the duration of the effect, and that in itself is a gamble. Mob dies earlier than expected, effect is gone. Mob dies slower than expected, you are gone.

    The last row just ends up really boring imo.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    My biggest gripe with SP right now is the final talent tier.

    Ancient Madness is just a passive buff, nothing exciting.

    Legacy of the Void reverts voidform to the previous version, no way in hell am I doing that.

    Surrender to Madness effect ends when your target dies, which makes it extremely limited in use. Can't use it on ST boss fights because you are literally killing yourself, can't cast it on a weak add for the effect because it is gone as soon as that add dies. This thing only seems useful where there are mobs that will stay alive for the duration of the effect, and that in itself is a gamble. Mob dies earlier than expected, effect is gone. Mob dies slower than expected, you are gone.

    The last row just ends up really boring imo.
    StM is actually decent now. Yes, you loose the insanity gen multiplier and movement while casting, but you keep the voidform, so worst case scenario you get a second voidform CD.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Boring pacing? You know what was slow as sh*t? Shadow outside of Voidform (which was the case for all solo content and even about 1/4 in dungeons and raids). So glad it's gone.
    How people play Shadow like this is beyond me.
    Shadow is slow outside of VF?
    You go back in VF after 2 Mind Blasts (in proper AOE situations almost instantly because of all the procs) and then you are fast again
    there is absolutely nothing slow in shadow gameplay right now, you are doing it wrong
    post your character, I bet people could give you valuable hints
    Last edited by Pper; 2020-09-19 at 09:37 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    StM is actually decent now. Yes, you loose the insanity gen multiplier and movement while casting, but you keep the voidform, so worst case scenario you get a second voidform CD.
    That's true enough indeed.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    StM is actually decent now. Yes, you loose the insanity gen multiplier and movement while casting, but you keep the voidform, so worst case scenario you get a second voidform CD.
    Did they change Surrender to madness? From wowhead it still says you got 25sec to kill the target or you die, and you can cast while moving.

  19. #39
    And is Surender going away once the target is dead working as intended?
    When I pop it and the enemy gets burned down I just wasted mobility and a great CD in 2 sec

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Did they change Surrender to madness? From wowhead it still says you got 25sec to kill the target or you die, and you can cast while moving.
    It's that they changed voidform, not s2m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootsbum View Post
    And is Surender going away once the target is dead working as intended?
    When I pop it and the enemy gets burned down I just wasted mobility and a great CD in 2 sec
    Well, it's not that different from how vendetta works. If you pop it on an enemy that is about to die, you can't really blame the cooldown for your mistakes.

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