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  1. #141
    They need to remove snd from assassination...

    10% regen... thats all it does

  2. #142
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Thinking Slice and Dice is depth tells me everything I need to know about you.
    How is it not depth?

    Like you otherwise have a lot to do? It gives you something to maintain, something to think about in the midst of everything else going on.
    I think that pretty much defines depth. How is it any different from rupture? You also just maintain that for the heck of it.
    At least this one doesn't tax you so badly upon swapping to another target.

    It's okay that you don't like it, but at least let it be for the right reasons. Even if you can't really explain it beyond just a feeling.

  3. #143
    The Patient qil's Avatar
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    I just did m+ and i really dont know why i have both: roll the bones and slice?! i had much more fun before :/
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  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    As an old school player I welcome the change. SnD is a part of what has defined the Rogue from vanilla to legion. It being taken away just didn't feel right.
    So as an old-school player you would know that Muti hasn't maintained SnD since cata was released, we also call that the majority of the game's history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    How is it not depth?

    Like you otherwise have a lot to do? It gives you something to maintain, something to think about in the midst of everything else going on.
    I think that pretty much defines depth. How is it any different from rupture? You also just maintain that for the heck of it.
    Rupture actually interacts with the rest of your kit (to varying degrees based on talents and leggos) as muti, because blizzard lazily sloshed it back into the kit without actually working it in, it's just a button you have to press for the sake of a button existing. It's not the end of the world but it's by no means good spec design.

    So no, it neither really adds depth since it doesn't interact with the kit at all and it's not the same as rupture.

    EDIT: By way of example contrast it to outlaw's implementation. It's not just forcing itself in, it's taking the place of RtB and one of the buffs from RtB interacts with SnD so it's something you're incentivised to play around.
    Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2020-10-20 at 12:24 AM.
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  5. #145
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    So as an old-school player you would know that Muti hasn't maintained SnD since cata was released, we also call that the majority of the game's history.
    And? I fail to see the relevance of this statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Rupture actually interacts with the rest of your kit (to varying degrees based on talents and leggos) as muti, because blizzard lazily sloshed it back into the kit without actually working it in, it's just a button you have to press for the sake of a button existing.
    What do you mean? It increases your poison procs and it enhances your energy regen, allowing you to do more stuff.
    It is literally the same thing as Rupture in every way. And how well you can maintain the both of them will make a significant difference down the line.

    I honestly feel like a lot of you are just complaining because you will have to work slightly harder

  6. #146
    The problem with SnD being back for assassin is that it really doesn't add much to spec complexity, even if being an extra button. Yes, it is very impactful in terms of damage, but it isn't going to be this thing that separates orange parse rogues with purple ones. All it simply means is that you're just gonna replace a few of your envenoms with snd's now throughout a fight. You're still gonna fire off Shiv(TB) on cd, and refresh dots/snd if needed in the window. You're still gonna maintain your debuffs/buffs. All SnD is just maintenance, there is no min/max strategy in using it. You simply just maintain the buff, that's it.

    I really wish blizz would have re added Kingsbane to Sin. That was a much more fun ability than a maintenance buff were just gonna maintain anyway.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    And? I fail to see the relevance of this statement
    Because you explicitly brought up being an 'old school player' (and implicitly making an appeal to nostalgia). I was merely pointing out that having such a wealth of experience you would thus be well versed in Cut to the Chase and its application to SnD for Muti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    What do you mean? It increases your poison procs and it enhances your energy regen, allowing you to do more stuff.
    It is literally the same thing as Rupture in every way. And how well you can maintain the both of them will make a significant difference down the line.
    I mean Rupture interacts with exsanguination and the two bleed legendaries and scales into aoe... But even if we accept your argument here doesn't that make the one that's less interactive redundant?

    I honestly feel like a lot of you are just complaining because you don't think OLD GUD NU BAD
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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    The problem with SnD being back for assassin is that it really doesn't add much to spec complexity, even if being an extra button. Yes, it is very impactful in terms of damage, but it isn't going to be this thing that separates orange parse rogues with purple ones. All it simply means is that you're just gonna replace a few of your envenoms with snd's now throughout a fight. You're still gonna fire off Shiv(TB) on cd, and refresh dots/snd if needed in the window. You're still gonna maintain your debuffs/buffs. All SnD is just maintenance, there is no min/max strategy in using it. You simply just maintain the buff, that's it.

    I really wish blizz would have re added Kingsbane to Sin. That was a much more fun ability than a maintenance buff were just gonna maintain anyway.
    Would've been easier to just add it back how it was before they removed it, Cut to the Chase baked into envenom, problem solved...it'd be exactly the same as it is now except you have to spend a bit of energy on it once in a while, pointless

  9. #149
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Because you explicitly brought up being an 'old school player' (and implicitly making an appeal to nostalgia). I was merely pointing out that having such a wealth of experience you would thus be well versed in Cut to the Chase and its application to SnD for Muti.
    Nah, I only played Assassination in LK.
    Otherwise I've always stuck with Combat and Sub because those were by far more interesting specs.
    And no, that doesn't invalidate any of my standpoints.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I mean Rupture interacts with exsanguination and the two bleed legendaries and scales into aoe... But even if we accept your argument here doesn't that make the one that's less interactive redundant?

    I honestly feel like a lot of you are just complaining because you don't think OLD GUD NU BAD
    Why would it make it redundant? Just because you don't like to have 2 levels of depth?

    SnD is something you have to manage. And you have to manage it well in conjunction with the other things you also have to manage.
    This means you might sometimes have to choose not to use that Rupture or SnD in order to actually make the most of your performance.

    Those choices are supposed to set you apart from the next guy. And the spec is to be built around the expectation that this happens.
    Now if your case was that it isn't properly built around that expectation, I would have some sympathy for your arguments (idk if this is the case).
    However this entire thread consists of people that don't want SnD back "because" and then follow without reason other than "its an extra button boo hoo"

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    For PvE it adds another button to the rotation, another thing to keep up. Not a lot, but that alone can show a difference between some players.

    For PvP, it adds a bit more complexity for bursting and overall sustain damage. Especially openers/setting up burst. I didn't miss it personally, and I wasn't happy (or unhappy) to have it back, but having Premeditation for Sub negates the point of it honestly. So it might as well go again for all I care. Recuperate OTOH, I liked that. Having something to keep up for HP/energy regen instead of attack speed.
    Definitely! A bit of complexity is always nice!

  11. #151
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Lol.. Legion & BFA rogue noobs can't handle a single maintenance buff without crying.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by genaian View Post
    That would be fine if they added it only to those specs. I play assassination and i played rogue since vanilla beta, and i cant stand SnD. But then again, i dont suffer from nostalgia and only care about gameplay and want numbers to just be competitive, but not at cost of gameplay... other way around is way more acceptable.

    This right now means im probably locked out of playing assassination this whole expansion. BfA assassination was very fun to play(granted, azerite powers had something to do with it), no idea why they wanted to make it worse, and only payoff for that addition of plain maintenance buff is that you deal less active damage and more passive damage. Lose-lose for assassination. Purely negative change. Adding even more maintenance and converting active damage into passive damage on top of it. Just insane.

    If they added SnD, reduced its attack speed bonus for assassination instead of increasing it and added some energy regen to it, or some new mechanic to get energy to actually help gameplay instead of hurt it, then fine... but as it is, its just terrible and assassination gameplay in SL is pure trash because of it.

    At least last time we had cut to the chase, so didnt have to worry much about it. Not to mention that now assassination is doing by far most passive/autoattack damage of all 3 specs, like 40% of total damage. Totally fits the flavor of the spec too.

    Blizzard went full ridiculous this expansion. Because some people liked classic, they decided to bring back old crap that should have stayed in the past and screw those of us that prefer retail. Yet another example of how stupid are those that make decisions at blizzard.
    Same as how when there are talents that result in very different playstyles, they see that 80% pick one talent (because it provides more dps) and then make it baseline because, well, 80% obviously show majority prefer that one, right? So now those 20% that opted out of it even when it cost them dps are left with no choice but to have that playstyle they hate or not play the spec anymore. Because you lose much less dps by picking one talent over the other, because both are dps increases over baseline, just one is less than the other, but when its baseline... you lose a lot and there is nothing to make up for any dps lost. But for blizzard, thats good change... when in fact its tragedy. Doesnt help the 80% at all, they still play the same, but screws the rest for no reason.
    And same is with SnD returning... going for those few that suffer from nostalgia and think vanilla is great or something as silly as that and screws all the rest that dont... for no reason. Add it as talent, so those loving it so much can go for it... let the rest of us actually have fun.
    I think you also need to take into consideration they made many changes over years that the vast majority hated, this is why Enhace Shaman and Shadow Priest are similar to their older renditions and are playing far better
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