So dying is just...living in another realm?

[Trumpcat]

I feel that the portrayal of the Shadowlands is too ordinary and samey, but there's no way not to be that if the game will be happening there. WoW will not suddenly become psychedelic mystical exploration of life without matter or something. WoW is killing wolves to collect stuff.

On the other hand realizing the meaning of the word "afterlife" seems to be quite harsh for those who past their twenties still didn't know it. Read more books, you will learn more words.

[LazarusLong]

I really cannot feel any any less of a fuck anymore about anyone dying in Warcraft after how Shadowlands are being presented.

You literally go to heaven if you were good, hell if you were bad, or some sort of soul stasis shit (based on today's cinematic with Ursoc) where you can REALLY die from (OR FUCKING CAN YOU, IS THERE A SHADOWLANDS BEYOND THE SHADOWLANDS?).

But otherwise....you just live on another plane, doing the same shit you were doing in life: fighting, fucking, eating and ....dying...again....

Seriously all of Azeroth could die I couldn't care less, since everyone would just be doing the same thing in the "Afterlife", whatever that even means anymore.

Now do the Christianity.

[Garymorilix]

Actually, Shadowlands are very different from the popular idea of afterlife. I'll list out the most important differences imo


1. Afterlife is for eternal rest, every soul is equal - Shadowlands are a rat race, you work to preserve the realm, raise in ranks, collect anima and get caught up in the affairs of the higher-ups, there's clear hierarchy and class system, (also your bodily inviolability is kind of violated when they use your anima for fuel but that's debatable)
2. Afterlife is a paradise, place of peace- Shadowlands aren't safe from the outside influence, they're regularly attacked by Light, Void and what have you, your safety is uncertain you never know when another threat may appear
3. Afterlife is eternal and constant - Shadowlands aren't self-sufficent, they only exist if anima lets them, they're dependand on the constant intake of souls
4. You can't die in the afterlife - fucking DUHH, you can still die in Shadowlands :^(


Just from the top of my head. I see where OP is coming from becausee Shadowlands are similar to the traditional afterlife only on a very surface level. Doesn't take much thinking to see the difference.

This is simply untrue.

You basically took modern religious afterlives as a basis, most likely the Christian one.

Take a look at the Norse afterlife, Greek, Roman, Egyptian etc... Not all afterlives are the same, just as not all parts of the Shadowlands are the same.
The Shadowlands is basically a combination of every possible afterlife there is. The 4 we interact with are not all the options.
So why would they add a playable afterlife where all is fine, everyone is chilling and there is nothing to do? What would be the point of that actually?

Doesn't take much thinking to see the difference.

[Michael Jackson]

The shadowlands as it exists currently isnt what we as the living originally go to when we die. Something happened that caused the eternal ones (leaders of the covenants) to turn on the Jailor and imprison him within the maw. The maw wasnt what it was and it was the original place ALL souls went or at least passed through.

Zovaal (the jailor/banished one) prolly did something like indulged himself by absorbing anima from the souls which made his fellow eternal ones turn on him, imprison and when that wasnt enough, starved him of anima by introducing the Arbiter on traffic detail. Those who went to bastion would live on to fulfill a duty of ferrying souls but are stripped of everything they are. Ardenweald is where those bound to nature go. All wild gods n such go here to undergo the rebirthing process and venture back through the rift of aln to the emerald dream and once again manifest into the world of the living. Ursocs soul is gone as the last of his anima was sapped to feed the other groves. Revendreth is the last chance u have to atone for ur sins, and if u cant, u are cast to the maw where the jailor will torture and fragment ur soul, eventually consuming it entirely.

In life, our souls gain anima, in death our souls are then USED by these asshole forces to sustain themselves hence the prison Sylvanas refers to. We serve self-righteous arseholes who just use our suffering in life as means to power them; batteries.

Wow, so, fuck the shadowlands? Can we just nuke this shit from orbit (alongside pandaria, for that matter)?

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This post is terrible. What version of an afterlife would make you happy OP? The real one? The one you apparently know the secret to? Because I know a billions of people have been pondering, fighting, and dying over what they think it is. This is what blizzard chose the afterlife in this universe to be so that's what it is and how it works. How is this any worse than any other concept of existence after death in other real world belief systems? In fact many aspects of it mirror those actual belief systems. Just think slightly before posting something like this.

YOU'RE DEAD AND DON'T DO SHIT LIKE YOU JUST WENT TO ANOTHER PLANET TO DO MORE DAILY QUESTS AND FACTION GRINDS, HOW ABOUT THAT?

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When you think about it, the concept of an afterlife (or heaven, whatever you want to call it) cheapens the concept of life. It's supposed to be special because it's finite. Existence should be cyclical at best, as the universe wastes nothing, but not this non-sensical afterlife where consciousness can be retained, and there are systems, rules, and even politics apparently, makes it redundant instead of special.

THIS PERSON GETS IT.

[Gaidax]

*snip*

You sure are... mmm... invested...

In case you and others weren't paying attention, Shadowlands was a defined thing since ever in WoW. Yes, this is a Warcraft version of afterlife and I am not sure why you make such a pikachuface over it, as if it comes as some sort of surprise to you all.

You already in Vanilla had plenty of "death is not the end" types of interactions and WoTLK solidified it by us literally going to Shadowlands in some quests. These were simplistic Shadowlands - usually a spectral recreation of some area, but it still was that. We also got our first knowledge of Maw shortly.

Basically, yes Warcraft had afterlife and it was not a Christian afterlife where you play harp or being cooked all day long. It's a fantasy afterlife for Warcraft.

I also find it funny some person be like "It cheapens teh life!11" - as if you don't play WoW, you'd be used to dead returning one way or another by now. Should have been up in arms over it back in TBC or Vanilla or even bloody Warcraft III.



^^^ OOooOooOoooo the TRAVESTY, Blizzurd how could u???"

[alt-ithist]

When you think about it, the concept of an afterlife (or heaven, whatever you want to call it) cheapens the concept of life. It's supposed to be special because it's finite. Existence should be cyclical at best, as the universe wastes nothing, but not this non-sensical afterlife where consciousness can be retained, and there are systems, rules, and even politics apparently, makes it redundant instead of special.

While I completely agree with you on this in the real world, in the imaginary game world I don’t see the problem. They are not bound laws of physics that we are.

[arandomuser]

My theory is the shadowlands is merely a creation of order, and true death is void, IE nothingness but the titans/order didnt want to feed void so they created the shadowlands to recycle anima into the universe

[Azerate]

Actually, Shadowlands are very different from the popular idea of afterlife. I'll list out the most important differences imo


1. Afterlife is for eternal rest, every soul is equal - Shadowlands are a rat race, you work to preserve the realm, raise in ranks, collect anima and get caught up in the affairs of the higher-ups, there's clear hierarchy and class system, (also your bodily inviolability is kind of violated when they use your anima for fuel but that's debatable)
2. Afterlife is a paradise, place of peace- Shadowlands aren't safe from the outside influence, they're regularly attacked by Light, Void and what have you, your safety is uncertain you never know when another threat may appear
3. Afterlife is eternal and constant - Shadowlands aren't self-sufficent, they only exist if anima lets them, they're dependand on the constant intake of souls
4. You can't die in the afterlife - fucking DUHH, you can still die in Shadowlands :^(


Just from the top of my head. I see where OP is coming from becausee Shadowlands are similar to the traditional afterlife only on a very surface level. Doesn't take much thinking to see the difference.

I literally debunked most of your points 1 post above yours.

No, afterlife is not only for eternal rest. There's countless popular mythologies which have places for souls that are not yet qualified to be accepted to paradise or however it's called in its respective idea of afterlife. In many of those, entities are required to go through trials of various sorts, or even battle each other (or some monsters) for eternity.

Sure, it's not exactly the same, because it's a separate original story, but it more or less echoes the real life mythologies in many ways.

PS. To an extent I do agree that the idea of afterlife cheapens the importance of our lives, but that's a whole another topic. It doesnt' change the fact that even religious people who believe in various forms of life after death still mourn their relatives.

[Gaidax]

My theory is the shadowlands is merely a creation of order, and true death is void, IE nothingness but the titans/order didnt want to feed void so they created the shadowlands to recycle anima into the universe

I don't think it's true, there seems to be a clear separation between Order and Death realm. Titans definitely did not create Shadowlands, for one, just like they did not create Void or Light, for one.

There is a mention of "First Ones" in Shadowlands, seems like these are the predecessors of existing order, while Titans are just an aspect of it, for all their power.

[Bigthumbb]

It's pretty uninspired, but ultimately it obviously comes down to 1. gameplay and 2. needing that familiarity for emotional resonance for the story. If all characters were turned into 6-dimensional vapors upon entering the Shadowlands, well... there wouldn't be much of a playable game left, would there be.

Still, I was hoping for something that was less terrestrial and familiar. I mean, I feel that Outland is a greater departure from traditional Azeroth zones than is the Shadowlands. A bunch of these zones...you could be forgiven for thinking they were part of Azeroth (aside from Bastion, I'd say).

[Kyphael]

While I completely agree with you on this in the real world, in the imaginary game world I don’t see the problem. They are not bound laws of physics that we are.

Oh for sure, I definitely don't mind it exists in-game, it's more content!

[Restors]

What is there not to understand???

That you can die in the Afterlife. A plane which should've been ones last destination. What happens to the souls who "die" in afterlife, do they move on to another realm of dead souls? It's just a huge cluster fuck.

[Tantaburs]

Right - so you're spreading misinformation. My blue post is literally the latest post as of just a couple days ago. They said it would be active on Beta in the coming days.

What WoWhead put up for what is currently available on Beta is out of date. What I said, which is in the blue post, is the most up to date information. So... I did in fact keep myself up to date with the news.

You need to double check your information before you get so confident that others are wrong

There is zero Rep component to swapping covenants
There are two weekly quests that you have to do
You can do one on Monday and one on Tuesday so technically you can do it in two days

The covenant system is garbage and swapping is far harder than it should be but there is no reason to lie about how hard it is

[Michael Jackson]

My theory is the shadowlands is merely a creation of order, and true death is void, IE nothingness but the titans/order didnt want to feed void so they created the shadowlands to recycle anima into the universe

That's actually a really awesome theory....considering blizzard's writing it probably won't be anywhere near as cool though.

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That you can die in the Afterlife. A plane which should've been ones last destination. What happens to the souls who "die" in afterlife, do they move on to another realm of dead souls? It's just a huge cluster fuck.

Exactly, to me it makes no sense, except for the theory another poster wrote on this page about the Titans having created the Shadowlands to recycle anima.

[Nyel]

When you think about it, the concept of an afterlife (or heaven, whatever you want to call it) cheapens the concept of life. It's supposed to be special because it's finite. Existence should be cyclical at best, as the universe wastes nothing, but not this non-sensical afterlife where consciousness can be retained, and there are systems, rules, and even politics apparently, makes it redundant instead of special.

100% this. Well said.

[Sluvs]

This "Final Death" thing is incredibly stupid.

I really dislike it because it completely destroy the purpose of the afterlife. Mainly Maldraxxus. Imagine being part of the necrolords and condemned into an eternal war that you will inevitably die and disappear into nothingness. Pretty stupid.

I think their souls should be reincarnated in the Shadowlands and that is it. Maybe make them lose their memories, but this final death thing is just so boring.

[jdbond]

Well it is taken straight our current belief in afterlife.

[bagina]

I literally debunked most of your points 1 post above yours.

No, afterlife is not only for eternal rest. There's countless popular mythologies which have places for souls that are not yet qualified to be accepted to paradise or however it's called in its respective idea of afterlife. In many of those, entities are required to go through trials of various sorts, or even battle each other (or some monsters) for eternity.

Sure, it's not exactly the same, because it's a separate original story, but it more or less echoes the real life mythologies in many ways.

PS. To an extent I do agree that the idea of afterlife cheapens the importance of our lives, but that's a whole another topic. It doesnt' change the fact that even religious people who believe in various forms of life after death still mourn their relatives.

This is simply untrue.

You basically took modern religious afterlives as a basis, most likely the Christian one.

Take a look at the Norse afterlife, Greek, Roman, Egyptian etc... Not all afterlives are the same, just as not all parts of the Shadowlands are the same.
The Shadowlands is basically a combination of every possible afterlife there is. The 4 we interact with are not all the options.
So why would they add a playable afterlife where all is fine, everyone is chilling and there is nothing to do? What would be the point of that actually?

Doesn't take much thinking to see the difference.

Did you miss "the popular idea of afterlife" part of that post? Tsk tsk tsk Shadowlands aren't the sterotypical afterlife and that was my point.

So why would they add a playable afterlife where all is fine, everyone is chilling and there is nothing to do? What would be the point of that actually?.

The point would be not to make an expansion based on the afterlife in the first place. Fucking duh

Safe for maybe Chronicles of Narnia I can't think of any popular property that portrayed the afterlife in a satisfying way.

[Varodoc]

Do the people in this thread realize that the Shadowlands look terrible, awful, and all that.... because the machine of Death has been broken by this expansion's main villain? Meaning that the Shadowlands wouldn't be so bad if the machine upon which it is build was not in ruins, forcing the various covenants to make drastic choices.

[Hitei]

I'm not sure why people are pretending some grand mystery has been ruined, when WC2 (25 years ago) showed us that people don't just stop existing when they die, they continue on as spirits with varying degrees of conciousness and agency. The game has been filled with ghosts and undead for decades, how are you just not getting that there's existence after death?