Classic-BC

[Kralljin]

Agreed with everything said in the recent comments. Both TBC and Wrath will beat the hell out of Classic in terms of hype, players and income for Blizzard.

It needs to be said that TBC needs changes to avoid serious pitfalls.

If they stick to maximum authenticity (#nochanges), then a lot of things will fall apart in TBC.

Using 2.4 Talents alongside a 2.4 state of raids / dungeons will make most content extremely easy, not to mention that Attunements were completely neutered before 2.4 already.
If they also stick to the original release schedule, you'll have people running around with Mount Hyjal gear in week two.
Which will then obviously impact Arena by an insane degree if PvP'er only have S1 gear available while PvE'er use T6 equivalent gear.

Then there is the whole faction balance issue, Horde was heavily favored especially in PvE in TBC, the Seal of Blood issue is probably the biggest culprit here.
If factions are too imbalanced, then you'll probably repeat the issue that AV has right now, Alliance has fast queues but loses every game, Horde has hour long queues but wins every game.

Then there is the thing about outdoor world, some Mega Server would need a ton of layers because Outland is much smaller than Kalimdor + EK, imagine the people that hang out in Org / SW are now suddenly thrown into one city, Shattrath.
Too many layers obviously has issues with how the older iterations of the game are supposed to not have this sort of thing.

However, i do not believe that TBC will beat Classic in terms of hype, TBC is great, but Classic is the original game, TBC will likely have a higher retention rate than Classic, but the initial hype of Classic, of it being completely fresh with nothing else on top / below it, will be difficult to surpass.

[Nak88]

It needs to be said that TBC needs changes to avoid serious pitfalls.

If they stick to maximum authenticity (#nochanges), then a lot of things will fall apart in TBC.

Using 2.4 Talents alongside a 2.4 state of raids / dungeons will make most content extremely easy, not to mention that Attunements were completely neutered before 2.4 already.
If they also stick to the original release schedule, you'll have people running around with Mount Hyjal gear in week two.
Which will then obviously impact Arena by an insane degree if PvP'er only have S1 gear available while PvE'er use T6 equivalent gear.

Then there is the whole faction balance issue, Horde was heavily favored especially in PvE in TBC, the Seal of Blood issue is probably the biggest culprit here.
If factions are too imbalanced, then you'll probably repeat the issue that AV has right now, Alliance has fast queues but loses every game, Horde has hour long queues but wins every game.

Then there is the thing about outdoor world, some Mega Server would need a ton of layers because Outland is much smaller than Kalimdor + EK, imagine the people that hang out in Org / SW are now suddenly thrown into one city, Shattrath.
Too many layers obviously has issues with how the older iterations of the game are supposed to not have this sort of thing.

However, i do not believe that TBC will beat Classic in terms of hype, TBC is great, but Classic is the original game, TBC will likely have a higher retention rate than Classic, but the initial hype of Classic, of it being completely fresh with nothing else on top / below it, will be difficult to surpass.

I understand and I think you make a good point. Raids should be before 2.4 nerfs and attunements must be present from day 1 untouched. It is also mandatory to time gate the different raid tiers, but I don't think they should make any changes to PvP balance, that would be way too many changes.

[kranur]

I'm willing to bet that TBC will have more active players than Vanilla ever did AND might even beat live shadowlands.

Same was said about classic and bfa.

Also .. source: trust me i have a source

And I'm pretty sure they will not release a raid in december in either version

[Kruschpak]

If they stick to maximum authenticity (#nochanges), then a lot of things will fall apart in TBC.

Using 2.4 Talents alongside a 2.4 state of raids / dungeons will make most content extremely easy, not to mention that Attunements were completely neutered before 2.4 already.
If they also stick to the original release schedule, you'll have people running around with Mount Hyjal gear in week two.
Which will then obviously impact Arena by an insane degree if PvP'er only have S1 gear available while PvE'er use T6 equivalent gear.

I dont see why they would make it any different than classic...have the talent trees on the latest version (2.4.3) and then do s1 with t4, s2 with t5, s3 with t6 and s4 with sunwell. ZA somewhere around BT release. PvP balancing is actually not that bad in tbc from what I've seen on private server, while most people gonna play wld/rmp there are still viable comps for the underdog specs especially in 5v5. The only thing that really matters is having some kind of perks for alliance in pvp (which shouldnt affect arenas) to avoid having 80% of the pvp playerbase on horde. Fixing the racials for arenas would be a drastic measure but honestly worth it...like waiting 2+ hours for alterac valley pop like it is on classic now, when you need the marks to buy gear in tbc, is some stupid shit. I think having the option to queue for random battleground like in wotlk would also be a good start.

[Kralljin]

I dont see why they would make it any different than classic...have the talent trees on the latest version (2.4.3) and then do s1 with t4, s2 with t5, s3 with t6 and s4 with sunwell.

Because the Classic release schedule mostly adhered to the Vanilla one.

If you apply the same principle to TBC, then you'll have anything between Karazhan and Mount Hyjal open on day one, get BT ~5 months after release, ZA after ~one year, followed by SWP 6 months after.
That will obviously fuck with Arena seasons if people are having BT gear while PvP can only have S2 gear.

And TBC content, both Heroics and Raid, got nerfed multiple times over the course of TBC, 2.0 Magtheridon is a totally different story than 2.4.

PvP balancing is actually not that bad in tbc from what I've seen on private server, while most people gonna play wld/rmp there are still viable comps for the underdog specs especially in 5v5.

It's not bad as long as you stick to the Meta comps, which don't leave that much room for niche specs.

Not to mention that the gameplay is rather questionable by modern standards.
-No Matchlimit
-Random Stunprocs
-Mana drain comps

[Clermont]

calling it now: all current servers will upgrade to TBC and there will be a few stasis servers for the True Classic Spergs to copy their character over to where they may keep running BWL to their hearts content until the day they keel over.

[Vorkreist]

calling it now: all current servers will upgrade to TBC and there will be a few stasis servers for the True Classic Spergs to copy their character over to where they may keep running BWL to their hearts content until the day they keel over.

I always wonder why logic and common sense is so hard for people saying things like these. You took some time to think really hard and the most obvious scenario was the one in which Blizzard decides to basically ruin the very concept of those classic servers by forcing BC upgrade on them. Surely they wouldn't make separate servers with optional transfers from classic. That would be absurd to let people chose what they want to stick to.

[Clermont]

sorry Classic Andy, the amount of players who want only vanilla are a very small minority. i guarantee it.

[Fayenoor]

They are just going to re-release the game every 15 years and go through all the expacs. So in 100 years there's going to be like 7 parallel instances if WoW running through various expacs.

[crewskater]

Because the Classic release schedule mostly adhered to the Vanilla one.

If you apply the same principle to TBC, then you'll have anything between Karazhan and Mount Hyjal open on day one, get BT ~5 months after release, ZA after ~one year, followed by SWP 6 months after.
That will obviously fuck with Arena seasons if people are having BT gear while PvP can only have S2 gear.

I think your timing is a bit off. T2 for classic was released in p3 which was half a year after release. So Hyjal would actually be after that since it's T6 and not T5. Serpent shrine and Tempest Keep should be roughly 6 months after launch.

[Northy]

People will, like me, play TBC for the ballin' ass PvP alone.

[Nachtigal]

It would be cool if instead of tbc/wrath/ possibly cata servers, they have a sort of mega game that consists of tbc/wrath/possibly cata, and then after they’ve finished recycling that content, they add new content for it in the spirit of classic. Essentially osrs, but wow.

[Mosha]

I think your timing is a bit off. T2 for classic was released in p3 which was half a year after release. So Hyjal would actually be after that since it's T6 and not T5. Serpent shrine and Tempest Keep should be roughly 6 months after launch.

What he is saying is that if TBC adheres to classics framework (release content when it was released during it's original time) this would be the layout. And he is right.

TBC released with everything up to Hyjal day one, it's just that most people didn't burn through content like we do today and they farmed out one tier until they had enough attuenments/gear to try to push the next tier.

[Starter]

Vanilla > TBC > rest

[crakerjack]

As far as I'm concerned, they sent out a poll a while ago and I believe the main vote for them to remain separate. Classic servers will remain separate from TBC classic servers. You won't be able to transfer/copy your characters over and everyone still start out with a free level 58. I honestly think this is the best way to do it because it makes for an even playing field when TBC classic drops. Also it allows people to make new choices on what faction/realm they want to join. If you're already part of an established guild/realm, you might feel more compelled to stick with them even though you have mild preferences to switch it up. Without any strings attached, people have the freedom to do what they please without feeling like they're gimping their experience by starting over.

[Cæli]

I think tbc (vanilla realms will be merged into a few probably) will be a major success at every level and it might drive blizzard to realize that doing new retail expansions might just not be worth it financially.
why bother putting that much efforts when people could just pay to play forever a fully finished game (almost) readily available for relaunch?

[Heathy]

As far as I'm concerned, they sent out a poll a while ago and I believe the main vote for them to remain separate. Classic servers will remain separate from TBC classic servers. You won't be able to transfer/copy your characters over and everyone still start out with a free level 58. I honestly think this is the best way to do it because it makes for an even playing field when TBC classic drops. Also it allows people to make new choices on what faction/realm they want to join. If you're already part of an established guild/realm, you might feel more compelled to stick with them even though you have mild preferences to switch it up. Without any strings attached, people have the freedom to do what they please without feeling like they're gimping their experience by starting over.

it also means there is zero back end for profession levelling, as mild as this may seem, hey just take your fresh 58 back into azeroth and gather/level up. it makes more sense to maintain that influx of ppl joining the game and actually having a consistent economy that spans through classic and into tbc.

starting at 58 is stupid because there is no classic economy at all so you'd have a whole bunch of 58s mining copper and farming linen cloth. STILL being required to go through that content to reach the newest content. as far as i'm aware they only added catch up profession gains in MoP? where you could gather from any expansion and get the relevant skill gains.

having everyone start at 58 just isn't going to work as well as having the servers with cleared t3 move into tbc while having fresh servers open that start at phase 1 again. no one (who is actively raiding) wants to be stuck on a server with a dwindling population I wouldn't mind 6 months of naxx, but I don't think that singular raid is going to maintain much retention past 6 months, after that ppl are going to be looking to tbc or other games. if i can't play tbc with the character I have spent the last year+ playing, I won't be playing tbc its that simple for me and an easy choice to make. if I can carry on into tbc ill do that, but if i have to start again on some character I have zero investment in, ill pass. its a no brain choice for me, I only want to play tbc if its with the same character i'm playing now. with the investment that has already been sunk into it.

fact remains, without an established server economy it will be a shit show. requiring you to grind through classics crafting tiers anyway. and with no established economy it won't simply be a matter of camping the auction house because no one will have anything to sell you. the benefit of playing classic now is that there has been a year of grinding ppl are levelling alts and seeding the auction with mats. if you make a character now you can boost yourself through the crafting with a combination of farming yourself and buying the mats that are harder to get. with a fresh server and everyone at 58, you won't have ppl creating lowbie chars and seeding the auction. but you'll still need to spend some hours or days farming classic mats to get past 300 skill no matter what profession it is.

have a mad rush as the server composed entirely of premade 58s rushes into hellfire and no one can gather dick.

servers need an established backend of crafting mats being supplied to the auction, so that buying your way to 300 is actually possible without needing to manually grind everything, because there is no server wide stockpile. imagine the clusterfuck of everyone levelling professions to 300. at the same time. on a server where no one has farmed anything. jewel crafting had content from 1-300 transitory as it maybe having that new profession and blacksmithing competing for the same resources. lel.

this issue is just compounded further with it eventually reaching wrath, do you do the same there, start everyone at 68 (even though DK's started at 50-ish and got to 58 in their starting area) having servers again with zero tbc mats and needing to farm your way not just through classic but also tbc. it doesn't make any sense when all of this was balanced around servers that progressed from one expansion to the next. none of these expansions are designed around some arbitrary point in time where you're magically XX level with no server churn and backend stockpile. it would be like if classic released at phase 5 and everyone is grinding mats to level professions the first time while trying to turn in mats for the gate event. bottleneck. you need the initial churn so by the time phase 5 happened, ppl were ready. in the same way that you need the classic churn to prepare the back end for tbc and all the alts and main levelling professions.

[crewskater]

What he is saying is that if TBC adheres to classics framework (release content when it was released during it's original time) this would be the layout. And he is right.

TBC released with everything up to Hyjal day one, it's just that most people didn't burn through content like we do today and they farmed out one tier until they had enough attuenments/gear to try to push the next tier.

They will release the Tier sets in phases like they did with classic regardless of what they originally did.

[Kralljin]

I think your timing is a bit off. T2 for classic was released in p3 which was half a year after release. So Hyjal would actually be after that since it's T6 and not T5. Serpent shrine and Tempest Keep should be roughly 6 months after launch.

It's not.
BWL was released slightly ahead of the original Vanilla Schedule, (~5 months vs. 7 month).

Mount Hyjal was open since day one in TBC, only Black Temple was later added in Patch 2.1.

In other words, the only raids that weren't available at launch in TBC were BT, ZA and SWP, rest was available, altough gated behind attunements.

[Mosha]

They will release the Tier sets in phases like they did with classic regardless of what they originally did.

I honestly hope you are right! I don't think they need to follow tbc 1:1 at all, but then again I'm also on the side of progressive patches in terms of balance and raid changes. I don't think we need to start with nerfed kara/mags at all.