With no titanforging we need more stats on gear

[Zyrinx]

So are the ternary stats (leech, speed, avoidance) removed in SL?

[mojusk]

with all the other bells and whistles tied to player power, like covenants, conduits and leggos, which will be confusing enough to figure out what is best. im ok with gear being rather bland and straight forward.

[Ielenia]

when one trait is 3k dps and another is 30k dps theres no choice

That's irrelevant. My point that each piece gives up to 4 bonuses at the same time, not counting the item level boost. Whereas with the tier set system, you need two pieces to get one bonus, and four to get two bonuses.

[razorpax]

That's irrelevant. My point that each piece gives up to 4 bonuses at the same time, not counting the item level boost. Whereas with the tier set system, you need two pieces to get one bonus, and four to get two bonuses.

you need 4 pieces to get the two bonuses now
neck
3 azerite pieces

unless you are counting the generic "increase X stat by Y" bonus or the shield

its not even fun because the bonuses havent changed since i think 8.2
at least with tier not only did you get new looking gear but new bonuses instead of "well i better get to farming this piece of gear for the 5th time because the tier reset and its a 30ilvl gap

[Ielenia]

you need 4 pieces to get the two bonuses now
neck
3 azerite pieces

You misspelled "twelve bonuses" there.

unless you are counting the generic "increase X stat by Y" bonus or the shield

Each individual azerite piece gives up to four individual bonuses. Even if we could the necessity of having to keep the neckpiece, that's TWICE the amount of bonuses for HALF the amount of pieces that tier set gear requires.

So, even if we count the neck, we have 4 pieces of gear, and get 12 bonuses. Whereas with tier gear, you need 4 pieces to get 2 bonuses. Like, in that regard, the azerite gear system is superior to the tier set gear by a factor of six.

Not to mention that the bonuses on the tier set gear are static, whereas with Azerite gear it allows you to pick-and-choose within a limited amount of traits for yourself.

its not even fun because the bonuses havent changed since i think 8.2

Ny'alotha introduced one new trait.

at least with tier not only did you get new looking gear

Tier set gear stopped having different models than the rest of their tier raid gear since Wrath.

but new bonuses instead of "well i better get to farming this piece of gear for the 5th time because the tier reset and its a 30ilvl gap

That's... exactly what you did with tier gear, too. You replaced it every new raid tier that is released.

And, again, like I already said, earlier: the "azerite gear" system can be improved, just like the "tier set gear" system was improved as time went on.

[schwank05]

We could get Armor Penn back and then at the same time bring back Combat Rogue and Blood DK DPS.

[Ssateneth]

nice troll bro. people easily got 100% armor pen in late icc gearing. try again.

[Grimbold21]

If anything, I'd argue that perhaps other builds could be improved to be on par with cookie cutter versions, as a means to change the start priorities of certain specs.

I rerolled enhancement when just before MoP came out and I can only recall mastery being the stat we went for. As the game went on, that moved to a focus on Haste/mastery.

[Alkizon]

Well, what else can I say... same people, same conversations, same sensible and erroneous arguments, can we expect the same result?

So, regarding the whole topic, I agree that there is no dependence between those - one doesn't interfere with the other, but answering second part of question - yes of course, but without fanaticism, there should be certain logic behind each stat, the more logical process, the more player's repercussion, involvement. Also loot is loot and any scaling/RNG's-addition-lvls/loot-boxes/cross-hierarchy stuff can go to hell.

Some reasoning about mastery
One more thing. Some people mentioned here about mastery (and about versatility, but everything is clear with last one, its problems are obvious, it doesn't perform functions assigned to it and devouring places of other stats/too universal, exactly cutting it out could serve as current thread's cause, and if there is solution/right&necessary stats, then it's simply becoming redundant), as I have already said many times, mechanism of its implementation was wrong. Consider situation of solid class, there're 3 branches with same number of X "talent's points" (yeap, I still don't see dividing ferals into two pieces as somehow right decision; and you can ask Doffen for my opinion about DH ; on the other hand, they can come up with more cunning division of type as in links-pictures below, while each talent will "act"/add-points in several of directions proposed there), there is Y "maximum number points that can be invested as a whole". We get kind of diagram in such form (it's triangle for our case) with "max dictance's direction" X, which reflects balance of mastery between them (sum of distances from figures' center to interior one's corners is Y). Thus, characteristic itself ceases to be tying/barrier factor (which it has always been, since Сata) for directions (so, you can safely exclude "closed" specializations, I don't think that this was reason for their closure, I have my own personal considerations on this account, but okay, topic isn't about that) and becomes characteristic for entire class. I.e. there's no locked mastery bonuses and direct characteristic gives corresponding "proportional" (Y - 100%, x1|x2|x3 - ?%) rating for each of "using" directions - depending on talent points invested in this or that one.

Now... threads with stuff about: characteristics&itemization (including few words about professions' tasks), a little about attributes' "growth graph", item's relation to hybrids/roles issue, threat, badges as catch-up/"a little more to do" element, more about 4th hierarchy level (its mistakes like AA and BP kind of loot), some words about tier sets, also x-forge stuff (what is wrong with it). Possible backstory of current "game systems' genesis".

ps. I'll probably add here few theses from those links, but it will take some time.

[ShiyoKozuki]

This is what a piece of gear in WoW should look like:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/4/40/...escription.png

[LostLocket]

This is what a piece of gear in WoW should look like:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/4/40/...escription.png

Is everyone living in denial that we all feed our gear into a sim already if you care about performance?

What an absurd notion some of you have. Most people have no idea what gear to use if their class has soft caps.