Final Fantasy XVI

[Maljinwo]

That was a different time, though.

If they did it today, it wouldn't work. That's the whole point they were trying to make. We're in an age where at least in the West RPGs are getting more and more action-y and so that's what audiences expect, maybe even want. Trying to go with a slower-paced, turn-based (or pseudo-turn-based like ATB) game makes it that much more difficult to compete.

Part of that is graphics - people want their movie-quality graphics to be matched by movie-style action. It was easier to sell TB combat when graphics were janky, because there was less action in general due to engine limitations.

Might be mistaken, but the Persona series does pretty good despite having turn based combat.
Sure, people also like the whole social links stuff but if everyone found the combat tedious, it wouldn't really fly

[Biomega]

Might be mistaken, but the Persona series does pretty good despite having turn based combat.
Sure, people also like the whole social links stuff but if everyone found the combat tedious, it wouldn't really fly

I said it was more difficult to compete, not that it was impossible And art style has a lot to do with it - FF went into a different direction than Persona, that's not a clock you can just turn back without it feeling out of place.

Don't get me wrong - I hate the action combat of the last few FFs, and I'd absolutely love to go back to TB combat.

But I get why we got here and why it's not going to change anytime soon. I hate it, but I get it.

[Tech614]

Persona is popular due to being good, the combat system isn't entirely relevant here. Good turn based games become popular, good action based games become popular. It's more important to be good than to have some specific combat system. This is just way over thinking it.

[Video Games]

Persona is popular due to being good, the combat system isn't entirely relevant here. Good turn based games become popular, good action based games become popular. It's more important to be good than to have some specific combat system. This is just way over thinking it.

And really outside of reaction based ones like mario and luigi I don't think turn based is great. Mainline smt is only just good and bravely default is only just alright

[Forteofgray]

For the ADD generation? Yeah

For me? Nope, it’s peak.

"The people that like something I dislike must be handicapped"

[Ghost of Cow]

They never felt like virtual worlds. They felt like old video games. Things that are actually virtual worlds with real life NPC schedules and interconnected worlds weren't really a thing until Shenmue, GTA3 and Morrowind and it's incredibly embarrassing to sit here and act like some old ass bare bones FF world map is a virtual world but modern games aren't, when certain modern games are miles ahead in that aspect.

Ultima 7 says hi.

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"The people that like something I dislike must be handicapped"

Well, consider the source.

[RobertoCarlos]

They never felt like virtual worlds. They felt like old video games. Things that are actually virtual worlds with real life NPC schedules and interconnected worlds weren't really a thing until Shenmue, GTA3 and Morrowind and it's incredibly embarrassing to sit here and act like some old ass bare bones FF world map is a virtual world but modern games aren't, when certain modern games are miles ahead in that aspect.

Thats being disingenuous.

Cosmo canyon, gold saucer, a random dude in rocket town giving you cid's ultimate weapon. Gave the game a sense of its own world, through the power of writing and creative use of art assets. Thats why they're able to use nostalgia and remake the games because of the impact they had because they were so memorable because it felt like a self contained world regardless of tech capabilities.

I dont disagree with your earlier point however that it largely comes down to the quality of the writing. Who knows maybe they have come up with something inventive with a new summon system, if Shiva etc have their own personality and are incorporated into the game in clever ways similar to mimir in god of war 4 it could work. Cautiously optimistic is the best approach

[Tech614]

Thats being disingenuous.

Cosmo canyon, gold saucer, a random dude in rocket town giving you cid's ultimate weapon. Gave the game a sense of its own world, through the power of writing and creative use of art assets. Thats why they're able to use nostalgia and remake the games because of the impact they had because they were so memorable because it felt like a self contained world regardless of tech capabilities.

I dont disagree with your earlier point however that it largely comes down to the quality of the writing. Who knows maybe they have come up with something inventive with a new summon system, if Shiva etc have their own personality and are incorporated into the game in clever ways similar to mimir in god of war 4 it could work. Cautiously optimistic is the best approach

Nah, compared across the same gen OoT felt more like a living world than FFVII which felt like an uglier version of SNES FF at the time using 3D for the sake of it and there is a reason all the marketing was done with the CGI scenes and not actual gameplay. If FFVII felt like a living world then so did FFVI I guess, I don't think transitions between towns or dungeons and a bland world map with random battles counts as a living world. Not even compared against their eras.

Actually I kind of take it back, VI felt more like a living world than VII since it didn't have massive immersion breaking loading screens on every area transition, just a second or 2. You know I almost feel like this is a massive difference between the people that played VII as their first FF and the people that played 4 and/or 6 before it. VII was just an extension on their formula, with CGI scenes, longer loading, uglier character models and pre rendered backgrounds.

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Ultima 7 says hi.

Ah man, nothing says living world like 2D. This man gets it see, FFVI the living world FTW. Still didn't have real time day night cycle, still didn't have real time NPC schedules. Such living world cause it had a society sim tho!

[RobertoCarlos]

Nah, compared across the same gen OoT felt more like a living world than FFVII which felt like an uglier version of SNES FF at the time using 3D for the sake of it and there is a reason all the marketing was done with the CGI scenes and not actual gameplay. If FFVII felt like a living world then so did FFVI I guess, I don't think transitions between towns or dungeons and a bland world map with random battles counts as a living world. Not even compared against their eras.

Actually I kind of take it back, VI felt more like a living world than VII since it didn't have massive immersion breaking loading screens on every area transition, just a second or 2.

The 3D artstyle wasnt just utilizing the latest tech as a big dick swing, hironobu sakaguchi original vision was that of a diorama. Its a specific artstyle that gives depth because its basically miniature actors running around sets. Bravely Default, Final fantasy have this art style because of him and its intended beyond the tech

[Tech614]

The 3D artstyle wasnt just utilizing the latest tech as a big dick swing, hironobu sakaguchi original vision was that of a diorama. Its a specific artstyle that gives depth because its basically miniature actors running around sets. Bravely Default, Final fantasy have this art style because of him and its intended beyond the tech

It's just pre rendered backgrounds dude, and they where all over Saturn and PS1 games before FFVII even released and way way way before that even in PC and some arcade games.

Resident Evil was probably the pioneer of the style if we ask when the look started to blow up in popularity. That was quite awhile before FFVII came out. Hell by time FFVII came out RE2 was already about to release.

[RobertoCarlos]

It's just pre rendered backgrounds dude, and they where all over Saturn and PS1 games before FFVII even released and way way way before that even in PC and some arcade games.

Resident Evil was probably the pioneer of the style if we ask when the look started to blow up in popularity. That was quite awhile before FFVII came out. Hell by time FFVII came out RE2 was already about to release.

Doing the basics well isnt that easy and is normally more expensive than going the other way and using techology to just create the world.

Similar to how Jurassic park 1 looks and has aged far better than Jurassic park 2 and 3 which were more CGI heavy rather than practical effects.

The same will be said of these types of games where their art styles age better than others. Like Final Fantasy 9 has aged far better than Final fintasy 7 which was just on the cusp of 3D imo but 9 used the latest 3d tech but went back to a simplistic top down cartoonist style

[Aradur]

I mean…Action Combat System…ok, I’m still more of a fan of turn based but if it is well implemented I could see a Action Combat System too…I’m stil waiting for the first JRPG implementing a good one. FFXV Combat was cancer, FFVIIR was a little bit better but still shit…

[dope_danny]

I mean…Action Combat System…ok, I’m still more of a fan of turn based but if it is well implemented I could see a Action Combat System too…I’m stil waiting for the first JRPG implementing a good one. FFXV Combat was cancer, FFVIIR was a little bit better but still shit…

This combats done by the guy who designed Nero's combat in DMCV and any DMC player worth their salt watching this trailer can go "oh theres stinger, and theres table hopper" as the mechanics are all their under a titan or garuda or whatever pallette. DMCV wasn't a perfect game but its combat was excellent so i really doubt we are in for another "hold one button and the character fights automatically as you go make a coffee or something" combat XV had which makes the first kingdom hearts look like bayonetta.

[Xilurm]

People need to let go of the turn based/atb system, it's not coming back for mainlines, unless there's a drastic change in the series.

I don't know what to make of the combat yet, I've never played DMC aside from 3 so I'm not familiar with it. If it's anything close to KH I know I'm gonna enjoy it.

[Zenfoldor]

Love turn based combat, and love the strategic elements that usually(but not always) accompany them, along with the more laid back thoughtful and relaxing game structure that surrounds them(though that doesn't necessitate "easier").

That said, I don't necessarily have a preference for a mainline Final Fantasy. To them, flashy graphics and real time combat scream production value and high end. They believe they need that sizzle to sell the steak, so we won't get turn based again in mainline most likely. At least we still have Dragonquests, Triangle Strategy, Fire Emblems, BG3, Yakuza, Advance Wars, Soul Hackers 2, card/roguelite/indies ect just to name a very few. There are some really, really good turn based games still about. I'm still super hyped for XVI though.

[Tech614]

People need to let go of the turn based/atb system, it's not coming back for mainlines, unless there's a drastic change in the series.

I don't know what to make of the combat yet, I've never played DMC aside from 3 so I'm not familiar with it. If it's anything close to KH I know I'm gonna enjoy it.

Closest you will get to KH combat in a FF game is 7 remake, which funny enough is probably the best combat system Square has made in decades even while people where crying it wasn't the old atb but a new take on it. In the DLC especially, Yuffie is a straight up KH character with all the aerial combat and juggling so maybe the sequels are going even harder in that direction.

This definitely looks more toward DMC5 which is a whole different can of worms but not a bad one if they can keep it varied enough to sustain a 40 hour campaign(DMC only has to worry about entertaining you for 10 hours so its easier there).

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yoshida has been going around doing interviews. I find it very bizzare that the actual director of the game, Hiroshi Takai, isn't the one who is touting his own game. Feels like Yoshida is stealing his thunder.

Anyway, here is a concerning interview:

For most of his journey, Clive will be accompanied by one or more companions. These companions will participate in battle, as well as trade banter with Clive. That said, the party members will be AI-driven so as to allow players to focus solely on controlling Clive," Yoshida explains.

We have confirmation that Clive will be the only playable character. There will be NPCs who tag along every now, and then but they will be AI controlled only. I don't understand this. This is game is branded as a Final Fantasy game. The name FF brings with it certain expectations, not the least of which being a cast of different characters and the player being able to play as their favorite ones. I'm confused as to why they didn't learn from their mistake with FF15. Hopefully we might get a post-launch patch the rectifies this and allows the other characters to be playable, but a Final Fantasy game should have been designed from the start to fulfill these basic expectations. It's like FF13 being designed with the player never being able to explore the world, or FF10 not having a world map or the so-called "airship" being relegated to a mere menu.

[Shakzor]

FFXVs problem was definitely not that you only played Noctis. The combat was just boring af and just "mash button" from start to finish. As long as that got WAY better, i don't mind just playing one character.
Most only play as the "protagonist" in most games anyways (like as Alphen in Tales of Arise or Shulk in Xenoblade).

Links for 5 Interviews for those interested

Points like the story not being "defy fate" for once, but rather about ideals and "what is actually right and wrong?" and following the actual live of the protagonist through decades are really interesting. With being rated M, they can also actually touch on subjects a lot more graphic and detailed, rather than having to tone it down or relegate it to background "they talked about it"

[Val the Moofia Boss]

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My pet peeve is that it seems like all of the Eikons are going to be the traditional classics. No originals (except for maybe that one Eikon depicted at the top of the mural at the end, probably the final boss or antagonist or something).

[blackpink]

I mean…Action Combat System…ok, I’m still more of a fan of turn based but if it is well implemented I could see a Action Combat System too…I’m stil waiting for the first JRPG implementing a good one. FFXV Combat was cancer, FFVIIR was a little bit better but still shit…

Well, that depends on what you consider jrpg? Nier Automata is technically a jrpg and it was AMAZING. But yea, when we're talking about the usual jrpgs that everyone knows about, they all have crappy combat.

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FFXVs problem was definitely not that you only played Noctis. The combat was just boring af and just "mash button" from start to finish.

Big problem for me was the AI was crap, if that's fixed then Idm having AI teammates, otherwise what's the point.