The trend of elitism, meta and minmaxing.. I just want to have fun

[Crutos]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.

[Nilinor]

Find a medium or smaller server, and go there to play. The more people around, the more elitist the groups/guilds get, the less people around, the more casual it is.

[arr0gance]

Let us know when you finish that time machine because that's the only way you'll be able to achieve what you're asking.

[Crutos]

Let us know when you finish that time machine because that's the only way you'll be able to achieve what you're asking.

So it is just a lost cause is what you're saying? There's really no players in this game who don't take it overly serious like a goddamn math test?

Find a medium or smaller server, and go there to play. The more people around, the more elitist the groups/guilds get, the less people around, the more casual it is.

hmm I suppose that makes sense. I was kinda looking forward to a more social experience rather than just queuing up, do the dungeon, leave, repeat without ever talking to anyone. On smaller servers that seems it could be more difficult. Then again I don't really know what a "small" server is to you.

[arr0gance]

So it is just a lost cause is what you're saying? There's really no players in this game who don't take it overly serious like a goddamn math test?

I mean, you could post in /2 on a server that you're a boomer searching for other like-minded boomers to raid with but even then they'll probably have a few try-hards on their team.

[clevin]

Eh. Some guilds are like that. some aren't. You're over generalizing. You can easily find people who both try to do well and who aren't 100% min-maxers.

Now... do NOT expect to get carried. Don't expect to ding 60 in quest greens and get into an AQ 40 group. Do expect to be asked to do as well as your spec can (within reason). And as for buffs, some are dead easy to get, so while a guild might not enforce it, getting the heart and head buffs is simply a matter of being in the right place when they go off, so, yeah, they're kind of expected by most guilds who want to kill things.

end of the day... Play or don't play.

[Crutos]

I mean, you could post in /2 on a server that you're a boomer searching for other like-minded boomers to raid with but even then they'll probably have a few try-hards on their team.

I don't mind other people try-harding if they are just try-harding for themselves because that's what they find fun. The problem is when it is projected on to me as well.

How exactly does taking a game less seriously make me a boomer? You must be trolling.

[stygzilla]

I think you're judging the entire community from a loud minority. The actual amount of guilds on a server that require flasks every run is probably 1 or fewer. The vast majority of guilds are much more relaxed. If you want to go hardcore, expect hardcore values... if you want to clear content, just find a casual guild. The hardcore stuff will still be there if you later become interested in trying to maximize your performance.

[arr0gance]

I don't mind other people try-harding if they are just try-harding for themselves because that's what they find fun. The problem is when it is projected on to me as well.

How exactly does taking a game less seriously make me a boomer? You must be trolling.

Yes, because flagrant anti-intellectualism is a noted characteristic of anybody other than people too fucking old to understand why people are the way they are. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, if anything it's you who are trying to impose your ridiculous intentions on other people.

[Crutos]

Eh. Some guilds are like that. some aren't. You're over generalizing. You can easily find people who both try to do well and who aren't 100% min-maxers.

Now... do NOT expect to get carried.

getting the heart and head buffs is simply a matter of being in the right place when they go off,

Well this sounds a bit more positive. Yeah I mean, I did preface it by saying that it was my impression from looking into classic. The reason I am even asking here in the first place was to have it clarified.

Right I mean, I am not expecting to just get everything handed to me like Asmongold. Of course not.
I just don't want to spend money/time/effort into leveling the clas(ses) I want (rogue/warlock primarily) and then nobody wants that because some nobody on youtube who played a private server for 12 years presented some less than reliable private server logs to show "class bad" and then the class is just benched for all group content because of "Muh meta".

yeah alright I mean if the buffs aren't hard to acquire, then I suppose it is not a problem. It wasn't really detailed how the buffs were acquired just that "ZOMG U NEED OR U BAD AND NO RAID FOR U.. muh meta".

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, because flagrant anti-intellectualism is a noted characteristic of anybody other than people too fucking old to understand why people are the way they are. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, if anything it's you who are trying to impose your ridiculous intentions on other people.

They literally are though "play this way or you can't play". I am not forcing anything on anyone. I just want to play how I want to play and are looking for people who don't take the game too seriously like I do.
I guess your profile avatar is an accurate representation of the real life you.
Sounds like it is exactly people like you I am trying to avoid.

[clevin]

rogue or lock will be fine. Both are excellent DPS and bring utility.

Now, if you had your heart set on ret pally? Or boomkin? some guilds will look askance at those. Ours will take them here and there but we recognize that they're meme specs. We take them because we like to let people play what they want as long as they try their best. Will we take, say, 6 boomkins in a raid? No. But 1 or 2? Sure.

Look, if you want to get in a server first guild or better, yeah, you'll run into the attitude you mention. But we run 2 AQ40 raids who are both 9/9 and a crap ton of AQ20s, plus BWL and the occasional ZG and MC still. We were server 4th for AQ40 and (FWIW) 1st for AQ20 (yes, I know...). And while we kind of expect people to get heart and head buffs since they're so easy, we don't kick people who don't, and we don't demand flasking, etc. There are others like us on our server and on most servers I bet.

PS: Head buff is gotten by being in SW when someone turns in a nefarian or onyxia head (Org if you're Horde). Heart buff, all you need to do it be in Booty Bay or on the Island where the Zandalari are (off the coast of STV)

[Crutos]

I think you're judging the entire community from a loud minority. The actual amount of guilds on a server that require flasks every run is probably 1 or fewer. The vast majority of guilds are much more relaxed. If you want to go hardcore, expect hardcore values... if you want to clear content, just find a casual guild. The hardcore stuff will still be there if you later become interested in trying to maximize your performance.

well I think you might've misunderstood my meaning with the post or maybe I didn't word it well enough. It might be my bad then.
I didn't intend for it to sound like I was judging anyone, it was just the impression I got from looking into the game on youtube etc and I wanted to know if that impression was correct or not.
Just felt to me like there was a big emphasis on min-maxing every little thing.

but it is good to hear that my impression wasn't as bad as I thought. I am probably gonna start the game then.

[WaltherLeopold]

People have never accepted others intentionally slacking.

You couldn't come to raids in vanilla with talents you KNEW were bad or items you KNEW were worse than the alternatives. For example, why wouldn't you use consumables, if you know they add a huge % increase on your performance?

None of what you're seeing is new, its just a broader spectrum.

[arr0gance]

They literally are though "play this way or you can't play". I am not forcing anything on anyone. I just want to play how I want to play and are looking for people who don't take the game too seriously like I do.

No, they "literally" aren't. You can play however the fuck you want and nobody can stop you. That said, if you're shit at the game, playing an off-meta spec, or in general not trying very hard then other people can not invite you to their group which is 100% their right to do so, regardless of how you feel about it. Also, I'd strongly suggest you literally look up the definition of the word literally because it literally doesn't mean what you literally think it means. Literally.

Like I said, if you want to find a casual guild full of old people who have the reaction times of a barrel of sedated kittens I'm sure you'll find one eventually. They do exist, I have no idea why you want to create this narrative that "all guilds" are full of elitist shitbags.

Also, cute that you'd mention my profile picture. Got any other low hanging fruit you'd like to throw at me?

[Boboar]

I played some Classic on a fairly populated realm and my opinion is that the "try-hard" meta exists but it is not overbearing. What I mean is that while there are plenty of guilds and groups that will not accept a boomkin or ret paladin etc into their raids, there are plenty of casual guilds who will. There are guilds who chase the world buffs and opt for speed clears etc and there are those that don't mind taking two nights a week to clear molten core. The only problem is if you want to be a casual player and still have the speed clear "easy" raid experience of a meta guild.

[Crutos]

Look, if you want to get in a server first guild or better, yeah, you'll run into the attitude you mention.

yeah getting anything server first or 190th or breaking boss records doesn't matter to me. I am just interested in experiencing the content.

[clevin]

People have never accepted others intentionally slacking.

You couldn't come to raids in vanilla with talents you KNEW were bad or items you KNEW were worse than the alternatives. For example, why wouldn't you use consumables, if you know they add a huge % increase on your performance?

None of what you're seeing is new, its just a broader spectrum.

Well, there's slacking and then there's not doing 100% of everything you can possibly do. For example, we do a DM tribute run before raids so people can easily get those buffs and head and heart. Do they NEED the song flower buff? No.

"For example, why wouldn't you use consumables, if you know they add a huge % increase on your performance?"

well, Flask of Supreme Power (what I use as a mage) is 150g on my server. THat's a fair amount of gold, esp if you take 2 nights to do AQ and need to flask both nights. But you can get elixirs that are good and cheaper - so I do that. (well actually I leveled herbing and get flasks made from my mats, but....)

[Zyky]

Find a medium or smaller server, and go there to play. The more people around, the more elitist the groups/guilds get, the less people around, the more casual it is.

This is so false. This used to be true, until the implemented all this cross realm raiding nonsense. Now small servers are asking for a death sentence, if you go to one, the AH is empty and nobody is around to buy much of anything semi-valuable. Not to mention all their recent realm mergers/CRZ tech took away ANY and ALL benefits from being on a small server.

[kingpinuk880]

The server I play on has tons of casual guilds looking for players in chat all the time. They are not hard to find

[Crutos]

No, they "literally" aren't. You can play however the fuck you want and nobody can stop you.

I can play how I want and nobody can stop me? Really? They can stop me pretty easily by saying "no" to getting into raids. Sure if you mean "play how I want" by killing world mobs then you're right, nobody can.

That said, if you're shit at the game, playing an off-meta spec, or in general not trying very hard then other people can not invite you to their group which is 100% their right to do so, regardless of how you feel about it.

Like I said, if you want to find a casual guild full of old people who have the reaction times of a barrel of sedated kittens I'm sure you'll find one eventually. They do exist, I have no idea why you want to create this narrative that "all guilds" are full of elitist shitbags.

sure it is their right.
I am not creating any narrative. I made this thread because from what I looked into my impression was that the game was this way. Elitism, ridiculous min-maxing etc
I merely wanted to know if my impression of the game was right or not and you're just completely berating me like I somehow made it up.. to what? complain?
Maybe you should re-read my post.

Also, cute that you'd mention my profile picture. Got any other low hanging fruit you'd like to throw at me?

I mean your username is pretty on-point and low hanging like that, I could probably make a glip remark on that.