Bonus rolls are removed in Shadowlands

[Jester Joe]

WoW is a game, not a job...

Getting gear is a reward from doing content in WoW. Criticizing someone to say "you just enjoy the loot!" isn't really much of an argument, because it's just as valid of a reason as someone who finds content fun for getting mounts, or for getting titles, or for just the challenge.

[deenman]

The weekly chest (regardless of how many options) only allows you to take 1 item. So let's say you kill 10 bosses, and complete 10 M+ dungeons. Congrats you have 6 choices waiting for you BUT you can only pick 1.

Meanwhile, if you had 5 bonus loot coins (which is the current cap), you can spend all 5 in 1 week on 1 non-mythic raid boss to get a 20% chance to get something from said boss.

Non-mythic because of how Mythic Raid lockouts work.

so they replaced rng bullshit with a pretty large loot table where you can pick something you really need and actualy get it!....and this is somehow bad,seriously this just proves that blizzard never does anything willy nilly,its clear they had some info on people who love this rng loot slotmachine...glad its gone

[Aggrophobic]

WoW is a game, not a job...

Indeed. Even more of a reason to have good rewards then as it costs the developers nothing what so ever.

[Gorsameth]

https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...-the-corruptor

36% of all profiles.

https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...er-season-four

13% of all profiles.

Anything else?

People doing 1 +15 every week with whatever key is on hand can easily not get all dungeons done as a 15.
Those stats don't remotely say what you think they say.

Find a stat for how many players have done A +15 and we can compare those. I imagine the number is many times higher then 13%.

[Malix Farwin]

I thought you liked M+...

Loot was absolutely gutted in M+ in both value and drop rate. Statistically you will get 1 piece of loot every 5 runs. Of those runs you hope the 1 piece you need drops.


My biggest fear is that LFR becomes mandatory again.

[Cerus]

This is a good thing. Damn bonus rolls never gave loot anyway, always gold or azerite every damn time.

Don’t exaggerate. That’s a mathematical impossibility.

[Amsden]

Don’t exaggerate. That’s a mathematical impossibility.

Mathematically it's 100% possible, just not very likely.

[munkeyinorbit]

Its fairly simple, ~2 items per boss with 9 items per boss per 20 people.
vs 5 items per boss with 9 items per 20 people.

Less than half the chance vs current situation. Plus random 1-3 item from vault which is like static chance of ~1-3% each week.

And since currently it happened for us to some guy never get weapon from Raden despite clearing it every weak, everyone will have at least half the chance of what they had now.
Bonus rolls actually gave you some chance to target loot. Vault doesn't.

And it not 1-9 items from chest because these are separate loot.

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This is how you can fool people. You actually believe you have a chance to get trinket you need with 9 chances? No. It will be max 3 chances, out of pool of every item in raids.

Let me correct that math for you.
Chance of getting an item is .2.
Chance of not getting an item with a bonus item is .8 x .8 = .64.
Chance of getting an item is .36.
Chance of getting THE item is .36\2.5 as bosses drop 2 to 3 items per spec = 0.144

Chance at not getting THE item in chest is 24\25 " 23\24 * 22\23 = 0.88.
Chance of getting THE item is 0.12.

So as the correct math shows, there is barely a difference between the two systems and if your targeted boss has 3 or more items that your spec can use then the numbers swing in favor of the chest.

[Jester Joe]

People doing 1 +15 every week with whatever key is on hand can easily not get all dungeons done as a 15.
Those stats don't remotely say what you think they say.

Find a stat for how many players have done A +15 and we can compare those. I imagine the number is many times higher then 13%.

It says exactly what it should say.

Comparing clearing the ENTIRE raid to clearing one of every +15 in time.
Hell, blizzards main reason for changing that you can't swap gear mid-m+ run was because they consider it one giant encounter, just like you can't change midraid fight.

Or are we going to move the goalposts from "+15s are a joke and heroic raid isn't!" to "well, maybe doing every one is a bit harder..."

Fact is, if you can do +15s, there's nothing stopping you from getting the meta done. And yet far less people have done it than the heroic raid.

Hell, the percentage is closer to cutting edge (3%) than it is heroic.

People can ignore it all they want, but there's a reason +15s reward better gear than heroic does.

[iperson]

Getting gear is a reward from doing content in WoW. Criticizing someone to say "you just enjoy the loot!" isn't really much of an argument, because it's just as valid of a reason as someone who finds content fun for getting mounts, or for getting titles, or for just the challenge.

I like to herbalism, where is my BIS loot?

[Jester Joe]

Mathematically it's 100% possible, just not very likely.

Not with the bad luck protection.

Unless they only ever bought like, 3 coins.

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I like to herbalism, where is my BIS loot?

You realize that disproves you further, no? Because again, you're doing an action and gaining a reward.

Strawman or not.

[Gorsameth]

It says exactly what it should say.

Comparing clearing the ENTIRE raid to clearing one of every +15 in time.
Hell, blizzards main reason for changing that you can't swap gear mid-m+ run was because they consider it one giant encounter, just like you can't change midraid fight.

Or are we going to move the goalposts from "+15s are a joke and heroic raid isn't!" to "well, maybe doing every one is a bit harder..."

Fact is, if you can do +15s, there's nothing stopping you from getting the meta done. And yet far less people have done it than the heroic raid.

Hell, the percentage is closer to cutting edge (3%) than it is heroic.

People can ignore it all they want, but there's a reason +15s reward better gear than heroic does.

yes someone who does 1 +15 can do all of them, but how many people care about the achievement to actually do it? Obviously not many.

[Jester Joe]

yes someone who does 1 +15 can do all of them, but how many people care about the achievement to actually do it? Obviously not many.

You can literally say the same about the heroic raid.

How many people care to do more than normal? How many people care about clearing the full raid?

You can't compare one M+ to the ENTIRE raid, because it's literally akin to killing one boss, one chance at loot and all.

And fun fact.

https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...eystone-master


30%

For an achievement that's existed since LEGION.

[iperson]

People can ignore it all they want, but there's a reason +15s reward better gear than heroic does.

Then why are the devs changing it in SL?

- - - Updated - - -

You realize that disproves you further, no? Because again, you're doing an action and gaining a reward.

Strawman or not.

You mean like doing M+ and getting a reward? Weren't you just talking about moving the goalposts?

[Jester Joe]

Then why are the devs changing it in SL?

You mean like doing M+ and getting a reward? Weren't you just talking about moving the goalposts?

It still rewards mythic level gear weekly.

And what are you going on about? You criticized someone for liking M+ for a reward.

And then you tried to use herbalism as some example that was again, people enjoying an activity because they get a reward.

Again, enjoying the reward is a valid reason to enjoy something.

[iperson]

You can literally say the same about the heroic raid.

How many people care to do more than normal? How many people care about clearing the full raid?

You can't compare one M+ to the ENTIRE raid, because it's literally akin to killing one boss, one chance at loot and all.

And fun fact.

https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...eystone-master


30%

For an achievement that's existed since LEGION.

Fewer people have completed archeology. Guess that makes it harder and it should give BIS gear. Or maybe, that just means fewer people enjoy it...

[froschhure]

m+ is only 5 people, it's fairly easy to find 5 likeminded people.
raiding is 25-30 people, there are always people who want different things, always people rotating in and out of the team, etc.

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It's your own preference.

[iperson]

It still rewards mythic level gear weekly.

And what are you going on about? You criticized someone for liking M+ for a reward.

And then you tried to use herbalism as some example that was again, people enjoying an activity because they get a reward.

Again, enjoying the reward is a valid reason to enjoy something.

The person I was responding to was literally saying they removed loot from M+... It's interesting the part of the conversation you chose to focus on... M+ still rewards loot. Blizzard devs apparently think it's commensurate with the time investment and the rate at which it can be earned. I agree with them.

[Jester Joe]

Fewer people have completed archeology. Guess that makes it harder and it should give BIS gear. Or maybe, that just means fewer people enjoy it...

You got a source on that, coz I'm expecting it to be something that's grindy as hell to get and RNG loaded, because that's what a majority of archaeology is hence why there would be lower stats on it.

The person I was responding to was literally saying they removed loot from M+... It's interesting the part of the conversation you chose to focus on... M+ still rewards loot. Blizzard devs apparently think it's commensurate with the time investment and the rate at which it can be earned. I agree with them.

You're really going all over the place with your points.

The other user's complaint was the drastic decrease in gear from M+

This isn't an argument about whether or not it's justifiable that they did change it.

It's that you tried telling another user what they do and don't enjoy just because they enjoyed the rewards from M+ also.

[Doffen]

30%

For an achievement that's existed since LEGION.

Just chiming in here, off topic: When wowhead lists stuff like that, it means 30% of the profiles on wowhead right?

Just interested :P