Why fresh Classic servers is better then Classic TBC.

[MrA]

So the topics have been rolling up on the forums for quite some time about either going to TBC or getting fresh Classic server. Here are the reasons I believe that TBC should not be released and why Classic servers should start over when phase 6 has run its course.

1. Player progression - many people believe that the purpose of an MMO is to have player progression and that when you end in Classic, player progression ends unless TBC comes out. I believe that isn't true to a sense. As in most stories, there must be an ending. A point in which the player sees the major triumphs of his/her career and everything becomes right with the world. Player progression needs a sense of closure which we haven't ever gotten from WoW to begin with at all. MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online game, not Neverending Massive Multiplayer Online game. There should be a conclusion, a way to make peace with all the "war" going on in World of Warcraft. I do believe that you should get that ending, even if the original server stay up in Classic, because that would let players achieve their own ending within the confines of a scripted game.

2. Player Power - There comes a time where player power needs to reach a peak. This has been a growingly complex conversation, but I agree with the D&D aspect of RPG play in that players need to be restricted in their power. There is a difference in being a player that is overcoming insurmountable odds to beat a boss, then a player that becomes a god and is always the hero. I like the aspect of knowing that I'm just a small piece of the world trying to do big things but knowing that there are some things bigger then myself. That sense of danger and tension makes for an amazing experience.

3. Gear Progression - This is a spin off of #2, but it encompasses stats and powers on gear/tier sets. We already know how this effects TBC and beyond. Some people do like this aspect as it gives more power and choice to the player, but I think is slowly destroys the sense of restriction and creativity within the game. Even 15 years after the release of WoW, players are coming up with alternate specs, gearing, and other things to become stronger, more unique, or more fun without the addition of new gear.

4. New experiences - Yes, TBC would offer new experiences to the game in a set player's abilities and story, but it would take away new experiences in existing content. What if you want to start over as a different class but with everyone else starting over at the same time. There is a different between leveling a fresh start server then an alt on an existing server. Your experience is limited, you can't funnel gold or get higher levels to help, etc. Yes you can forgo all of this on an alt, but you will always have that safety net in place, and be honest, everyone asks for help at some point and usually it is from a higher level player.

5. The Fanboys - For years, fanboys begged for Vanilla WoW, and when they finally got it, everyone was happy. Do you really want to take that away after just 2-3 years. People want Classic just to stay Classic, as they have for many years. Don't taint what we strived for so long to get.

I do apologize for making my list so long, i.e. wall of text. I know this is my opinion, and only warrants respect from myself, but I wanted to get my voice out there for whoever cares to see a different side of the argument of Classic vs TBC.

[Mosha]

If you're going to troll at least be funny.

[Mosotti]

No.

/thread

[Heathy]

probably has something to do with not everyone caring much for alts or doing the same thing over and over and over again.

I started playing this classic release week 1, I have only 1 alt that i've levelled to 51 and I only play it when it has maxxed out its double exp. my main has full t2 and there aren't many pieces of gear left that I want. there are a few bits in aq40 I would like but, I'm not really that far from being done with phase 5.

I have no intention of starting again and raiding t1 again, no desire to start fresh, only to continue on. if I can't continue on, then I play other games.

the first time around I played a priest on the alliance, this time around I'm playing a warrior on horde, I got all I wanted to get out of this and redoing it again, I wouldn't gain anything from it that I haven't already.

once naxx is farmed to death the only thing I want to do is move to outland, level to 70 and raid there, what I don't want to do is go back to farming t1 again. thats still fresh in my mind and to be honest its not something i'm eagre to do again, being that i'm not the sort of person who levels lots of alts either. i'd rather just not play the game anymore if the only option is to restart. but what I want to do is move on to newer content that isn't fresh in my mind.

i've never gotten much from levelling alts, every time I play an alt i'm always thinking that this is time I could be spending on my main. I'm a one character type of player so the thought of scrapping all of the time i've put into this redo and starting again just has zero appeal to me and just makes me wonder why bother starting in the first place if you ultimately just want to throw away 2 years of playing a game, just to do it all over again.

I like the concept of mmo progression where there is new content to take your character through, its the one thing that sets these games apart from a single player rpg. that fact that there is always more content, more levels, more bosses around the corner. and that it is a journey, that has no destination. you just stop playing it when you've had enough, but I don't see why the game needs to stay in classic just because YOU don't want to move onto tbc, all I would say there is DONT move to tbc then, I don't see why what one person wants should dictate the outcome for everyone who isn't you.

if they want to keep opening fresh classic servers thats totally fine but I don't see why it has to be a choice between fresh classic servers and moving into BC, when it really could be both and you decide what you want to do, rather than telling everyone what they should do as if they cared about classic as much as you do. I've enjoyed my time so far, but again, I'd rather move forward with the character i've invested time into rather than starting again for no real reason only to end up in exactly the same position.. i'd rather keep the progression going than to just repeat the last year multiple times. there is nothing to be gained in that for me.

maybe I just lack the extreme levels of ADHD that is required to have this mentality. I don't see the benefit of restarting classic over and over, one and done is the way for me. then onto the next thing. I could counter argue by simply saying that every time you repeat classic devalues the previous experiences, I'd rather have fewer unique experiences in classic than only having consistently more and more trivial experiences as each time gets exponentially blander than the last until the point that thinking about classic only gives me a headache, fewer, unique, memorable experiences is better than repeatedly beating a dead horse until its pulp.

[MrA]

If you're going to troll at least be funny.

I'm not trolling. It's just my opinion.

[Deferionus]

Going to give this a nope. The moment classic came out I was happy because I realized they would likely make a classic BC. BC was classic done right. It improved on classic in every form while continuing the same spirit of the game that was lost in Wrath obliterated in Cata.

If I chose 5 years ago between classic and BC it would have been BC, and that still is true today.

[Mosha]

I'm not trolling. It's just my opinion.

Your opinions don't make sense though which is why I just assume this is troll. Here I'll explain.

Why fresh Classic servers is better then Classic TBC.

Okay let's here why we need fresh classic servers.

1. Player progression -...snip

So you think mmos should end for people... therefor we should have fresh servers of classic so everyone starts over again? This makes no sense. If you are arguing that the MMO should end, then you should argue that we shouldn't do anything at all to the servers. Whether you open up fresh classic servers or tbc servers you are going to have the same result, people are going to have to progress to hit the end of that version of wow. This point is literally meaningless when it comes to reasoning for just making fresh classic servers.

2. Player Power - snip...

This point is also meaningless. The player power in tbc is still on par with classic in terms of your power compared to a mobs power. I would argue that this only becomes more apparent in wotlk. Not that I think wotlk had it wrong but in tbc you didn't just run through stuff like you do in retail or even close.

Hell, I could argue that in some cases it's even harder. In classic I can run into an end game dungeon made for 5 people as a level 55 disc priest, and literally solo the entire dungeon if I wanted to through exploits and just basic clunky vanilla mechanics. You can't do this in tbc. Your power is very well checked. Again, if you are going to be making 'points' make sure these points actually pertain to TBC.

3. Gear Progression

I never understood this argument people have with gear specifically. What is it with gear progression specifically that is the issue? Everything you mentioned is extremely vague. You don't like new gear because it somehow ruins creativity and finding new specs? I honestly do not get it.... new gear just creates new and different specs to be born. Like in classic, no matter what gear you have as a boomkin, you are going to be trash in raids... period...there is nothing more to it. But in a version like tbc where all the classes are MUCH closer together in terms of balance it opens the doors for everyone to push numbers and make some really unique specs without being a complete dead weight to your raid team. I honestly don't know what to say on this one too much because it's such a vague statement that it honestly just makes no sense to me.

4. New experiences -

"New experiences in existing content" My guy, in tbc a massive amount of the population has to go through all of vanilla (minus raids) in order to reach outland. On a fresh tbc server, or really any tbc server if you make a new character, there is GOING to be a lot of people out there leveling with you. Horde HAVE to roll paladins and alliance HAVE to roll shamans. On top of that there will be a ton of people just rerolling all together leveling up with you. And before you go and say "well yeah but hardcores will just power level..." yeah they will, but on a classic server guess what they do? They just sit in dungeons 24/7 and power level as well. There is no 'new' experiences to be had with classic at this point, it's way to fresh. If there was a fresh classic server released right now people will level up even faster than they did before because of everything they know, raids would be pummeled even faster than it would before.

TBC will be new experiences all around for everyone included, not just the people who showed up extremely late to classic. If you truly are looking for a classic level experience you can just level up a new guy on a server that stays in classic. I'm sure there will be a community of people if you look who will do just this. Forcing everyone onto classic AGAIN just so you can relive that 1-60 experience 90% of the classic community JUST finished doing is nothing less than selfish.

5. The Fanboys -

No one is taking it away. I guarantee classic servers will stay up. You can play classic all you want. Blizzard didn't make 'fresh' classic servers at the end of the expansion. Christ they didn't make 'fresh' servers even when they made new servers. Those new servers were instantly put onto the patch they were released with.

[Tronski]

So the topics have been rolling up on the forums for quite some time about either going to TBC or getting fresh Classic server. Here are the reasons I believe that TBC should not be released and why Classic servers should start over when phase 6 has run its course.

1. Player progression - many people believe that the purpose of an MMO is to have player progression and that when you end in Classic, player progression ends unless TBC comes out. I believe that isn't true to a sense. As in most stories, there must be an ending. A point in which the player sees the major triumphs of his/her career and everything becomes right with the world. Player progression needs a sense of closure which we haven't ever gotten from WoW to begin with at all. MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online game, not Neverending Massive Multiplayer Online game. There should be a conclusion, a way to make peace with all the "war" going on in World of Warcraft. I do believe that you should get that ending, even if the original server stay up in Classic, because that would let players achieve their own ending within the confines of a scripted game.

2. Player Power - There comes a time where player power needs to reach a peak. This has been a growingly complex conversation, but I agree with the D&D aspect of RPG play in that players need to be restricted in their power. There is a difference in being a player that is overcoming insurmountable odds to beat a boss, then a player that becomes a god and is always the hero. I like the aspect of knowing that I'm just a small piece of the world trying to do big things but knowing that there are some things bigger then myself. That sense of danger and tension makes for an amazing experience.

3. Gear Progression - This is a spin off of #2, but it encompasses stats and powers on gear/tier sets. We already know how this effects TBC and beyond. Some people do like this aspect as it gives more power and choice to the player, but I think is slowly destroys the sense of restriction and creativity within the game. Even 15 years after the release of WoW, players are coming up with alternate specs, gearing, and other things to become stronger, more unique, or more fun without the addition of new gear.

4. New experiences - Yes, TBC would offer new experiences to the game in a set player's abilities and story, but it would take away new experiences in existing content. What if you want to start over as a different class but with everyone else starting over at the same time. There is a different between leveling a fresh start server then an alt on an existing server. Your experience is limited, you can't funnel gold or get higher levels to help, etc. Yes you can forgo all of this on an alt, but you will always have that safety net in place, and be honest, everyone asks for help at some point and usually it is from a higher level player.

5. The Fanboys - For years, fanboys begged for Vanilla WoW, and when they finally got it, everyone was happy. Do you really want to take that away after just 2-3 years. People want Classic just to stay Classic, as they have for many years. Don't taint what we strived for so long to get.

I do apologize for making my list so long, i.e. wall of text. I know this is my opinion, and only warrants respect from myself, but I wanted to get my voice out there for whoever cares to see a different side of the argument of Classic vs TBC.

I'd probably start over, but at a certain point it would get boring. The initial time investment is too damn high and people would fall off.

It would have been better if they hadn't rushed the phases so we'd have more time to play alts instead. Done is done, I guess.

Good thing we had Classic to pass the time waiting for SL.

[CasualVader]

I am a person who didn't really support Classic Servers personally but I am glad that people did get it and experience what they wanted.

For me who never liked Classic but was a huge fan of TBC I highly disagree with the upper statement due to I think TBC was a far more superior experience than Vanilla that I did experience.

But in the end this is your opinion and glad you shared it while I disagree with it.

[Keny]

It's not, your argument Is Invalid.

[Aynen]

If they make Classic TBC servers, they have two options: keep some servers on Vanilla, or migrate all of them to TBC. The second option will obviously spit in the face of the massive crowd that advocated for Classic Vanilla. The first one seems like a more viable option, but it would split the player-base. I do not think they will go for it.

Also, while I understand that people might be 'done' with the content of Classic, others may have yet been able to play it. Therefore I believe that Classic should always be kept in the state that it is right now. To me, this is the entire #nochanges debate all over again.

[Heathy]

splitting the player base was never an issue otherwise they wouldn't have released classic in the first place and forced everyone to play the one and only version of it. they obviously have no problem competing with themselves although the entire thing all falls under a single subscription so its moot. you are 1 subscription, whether you're playing classic, tbc, sl whatever.

the fact is that after X amount of time farming naxx to oblivion and the battlegrounds and all pvp being saturated in t3, either ppl ultimately dwindle off and stop playing or, they move to tbc. its really one or the other, either blizzard wants to keep milking the cash cow or they are happy stopping at classic and eventually losing players to attrition. as the entire concept of wow being an mmo polarises into msn messenger everyone has t3, the game. at some point its moving forward or its all servers are slowly merged down to one. I don't think there is a scenario where every server maintains a healthy influx of new blood and guild creation to see it carry on endlessly whether there is a tbc or not. at some point the amount of new players coming into the game isn't going to outweigh the ones leaving. those that wanted to play this most likely already have i'm willing to bet we are well past peak growth for this re-classic'ing, in fact ppl have already burnt out in my guild we lost a warrior with TF last week because he was already sick of aq40 and wanted to go play SL instead. maintaining enthusiasm to play this game is the hardest part about it, even if you were interested in it. powered entirely by masochism.

[Nak88]

No thank you.

[Thage]

If they make Classic TBC servers, they have two options: keep some servers on Vanilla, or migrate all of them to TBC. The second option will obviously spit in the face of the massive crowd that advocated for Classic Vanilla. The first one seems like a more viable option, but it would split the player-base. I do not think they will go for it.

Also, while I understand that people might be 'done' with the content of Classic, others may have yet been able to play it. Therefore I believe that Classic should always be kept in the state that it is right now. To me, this is the entire #nochanges debate all over again.

I think they will, personally. 'Splitting the playerbase' is only so much of an issue, and Certain Pirate Servers have demonstrated consistently that the audience exists to keep multiple versions of the game within the same server pool active and feeling alive. Let's call these servers War Mode for the sake of not directly discussing them (so those who know what they are have context and those who don't won't go giving them business). War Mode servers run, if memory serves, BC, WotLK, and I think Cataclysm versions of the game, and all of them have strong populations even if you ignore the numbers touted on their website and go by ingame /who during prime hours.

Simply put, there is an audience for each version of the Classic Trilogy (and I think they'll only be developing the three 'classic' versions of the game since, beyond that point, almost everything you can do from Cataclysm onwards is still in the game, while Vanilla -> WotLK forms a cohesive arc and all three fall under similar design philosophies, whereas the game began experiencing large-scale systems changes in late WotLK and especially from Cataclysm onwards). By developing server pools for all three, Blizzard essentially gets four revenue streams for comparative chump change, especially now that most of the hard work from a design standpoint has already been done for Classic.

Additionally, this will cut into private servers the way the token cut into gold sellers, which is only a good thing in my book. Granted, it's not a 1:1 thing; some people just wanna play WoW for free and that's where, I wager, the lion's share of private server populations come from, but there are untapped markets that private servers are tapping that Blizzard would be smart to tap into themselves.

[Unholyground]

Most people I know want TBC and not a reset, Classic is fun for a spin but TBC just offered much more to all the classes with the same feel of classic.

[deenman]

nothing is being take away,classic will still be there,also...why not both fresh classic and tbc?not like they have to put work in to it

alo there is no ''fresh classic is better than tbc'' its all subjective

- - - Updated - - -

Most people I know want TBC and not a reset, Classic is fun for a spin but TBC just offered much more to all the classes with the same feel of classic.

to be fair if we go by private server numbers tbc is extremly unpopular,wrath is leagues more popular and same with vanila

[Cæli]

it's a nonsense to have this debate. blizzard will obviously do separate servers and there will be both kinds to maximize the playerbase.
what we can speculate about is which server type will have more players.

[kranur]

Makes no sense to spend a ton of time building a character only to start over.

Even if you go with another class, you can just make an alt. Sure the progression of the char will be a lot faster with zg and aq and the extra dungron gear but who in their right mind will want to spend 6 months in MC only again?
And that's why fresh servet is bullshit.

[deenman]

Makes no sense to spend a ton of time building a character only to start over.

Even if you go with another class, you can just make an alt. Sure the progression of the char will be a lot faster with zg and aq and the extra dungron gear but who in their right mind will want to spend 6 months in MC only again?
And that's why fresh servet is bullshit.

oh boy...you have NO idea lol,its actualy THE meta for private servers,and diablo 3 ,people LOVE starting fresh

[Surpremacy]

This is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet in quite some time. "YEAH, LET'S DO AQ TILL THE END OF TIME!!!" Please, remove this post immediately.