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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoCaca View Post
    I got the solution and its called Player vs Player

    The problem with PvE content: its repetitive and predictable, do It first time woah, second time, oh, third time ok, forth time, zZZZZz

    PvP otherwise you get an unpredictable iterations every time

    But you know, Blizzard dont give a single S about pbp
    I would agree, but pvp is really awful at the moment. I think the only reason I stayed subbed through TBC/wotlk was because the pvp was (mostly) really good, same for all my ingame friends back then.

  2. #82
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    no no no- Classic was a game from 1 to 60 because it barely had endgame. retail wow today is a completely different game, they need to add even more end game stuff. Not shit you outlevel and make obsolete in a week

    The worst issues in SL now is the shit they implemented from classic. Let that shit die out in wow classic and and let retail move forward, not being stuck in the past

    - - - Updated - - -

    whats been the most fun in guildwars 2, rift and warhammer was the public events. Wow need something like that. Not just boring solo wq's. Big events.
    Raiding and dungeons is already good, gearing need to be fixed from the shit classic bs we have now and its perfect.

    We need more variety in end game content. More focos on stuff like crafting aswell, things to engage you all the time
    The thing I am talking about is making everything current content, if you scale up all the leveling zones to max level... we could have every expansion as current content and it would give us endless content...
    (ofc, it needs to be something people do for fun... not give good rewards, since we want people to be in the current expansion to).

    What have poisond WoW in all this years... that that we just forget about all the content we have made and been threw, we should use it all and be able to use it... now you have to "lock your level at 49" to do this... and that is just bad game design.

    if you really think that Classic can only ruin CUrrent wow... then that is your opinion...

    Classic is the past, ofc, but how can you say that the future can't become better when we learn from the past, classic had alot of good things to it... since back then all blizzard had was the world... and that made vanilla a great game.

    Something people like you forget that, there are alot of people that just level in the game and enjoy doing it... we should have alot of max content, ofc.... but we also need to make content or Revamp lower level content...

    There is a huge reason why from Cataclysm.... to WOD... the game was in huge delince.... once of the reason to that is because... blizzard started to forget about leveling.... the world was so broken... and horrible to play threw... and that is a huge weekness.

    one of the major reason that shadowlands is so good and have over 11 million subs again... is because of the level scaling and the rework to the level system... if you have a huge game like World of Warcraft.... you cant just forget about 80% of the past content... it will just end up destroying the game it self.

    So again, we should have max content, ofc.... but why would you compleetly forget about lower levels... that is just very narrow eyed and egocentric

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    I haven't seen a bit of classic in SL, except that travel takes way too much time.
    Well, my dear friend, then you have to be blind ^^

    1st, the level scaling... and the focus on the past content... now the entire world is the content... and that was the major thing behind vanilla.

    2nd, you have a focus on the fun factor and not force you to do stuff.

    3rd, the travel thing, we dont need to rush like crazy horny bunnies all the time, I am glad they removed the whistle.

    4th, the focus on alot of things outside the main content, since in vanilla they only had the world to focus on...it game it alot of good vibes and great Lore, and so does shadowland.

    5th, if you open your eyes and try to think about it, you can see that since the team needed to work on Classic... there are alot of classic vibes to shadowlands, alot of people are saying this, so again, just open your eyes and you will see

    PS: vanilla is a long time ago, so we remeber it in different ways, to me shadowlands is a great mix of past expansions and future ideas, and that is what World of warcraft should be about ^^
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    If the game would have stayed the same with new bosses, zones, gear and abilities since BC I would still love the game. I could still be running Kara weekly to this day.
    I assume you are being hyperbolic? Wrath came out 636 weeks ago. Something tells me you would have gotten bored of Kara a very long time ago.

    I only think burnout happens in this game when the ratio of fun activities to boring activities becomes lopsided for a long period of time.

    For me, right now PVP, M+, and raiding is fun. The maw, Torghast, dailies, chores, farming, etc is nauseating.

    Though, I also feel some degree of burnout is inevitable, no matter what Blizzard does. you can't play the game non-stop for literally decades without needing breaks. At least the vast majority of people can't. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. We all pine for endless content but if say Blizzard actually had the resources so that a new patch and raid was hitting just as most players cleared the previous one there would still be a need for breaks. Gaps are good, they give us a chance to do other things for a while.

  4. #84
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    They tried that once, as you said, in Cataclysm. That led to the number one complaint being they spent so much time on content most people will breeze through once without hardly even paying attention, then reach an endgame without as much as they would like.
    Well, Cataclysm had a huge goal and idea behind it, and it was really awesome that they did what they did.

    Let me explain my self:


    1st.

    The thing is that at that time the WoW developer team was kinda small so revamping 2 continents... with close to no preparations... was a huge work load on the entire team... and you can see they had to rush alot of zones and ideas...


    2nd.

    The reason an Expanion fails has many different reasons, saying that Cataclysm was so bad only because of the revamp is very narrow eyed and close minded...


    3rd.

    Today we have so many different systems that would make all that revamp they do to the world could make it max level content to, 1 of the core reason cataslym failed is because if was a great idea but it was done way before its time... all the stuff they revamped had no systems that would make it be used at max level, but today we do have so many new systems that could make the entire continent max level content.


    4th.

    In Warlords of Dreanor, Legion, BFA... and shadowlands, you can see that they have done alot of the Preparations and Updating of old grapics... so an Azeroth revamp would be way less work for the entire team since half the job is allready done, so many of the legion and BFA zones has stuff from the past but updated..


    5th.

    Today we have so many yeas of experiance and learn so many new techniques... so why not try it again.


    6th.

    The team today is super huge... if you put it in confrontation with the team we had in Cataclysm



    PS: What do they say... if you fall of a bike... you should throw that bike away and never try again... ofc not... if you think that the revamp faild so many years ago... we should try again..
    Last edited by Wolfrick; 2021-01-22 at 05:12 AM.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfrick View Post
    Well, Cataclysm had a huge goal and idea behind it, and it was really awesome that they did what they did.

    Let me explain my self:


    1st.

    The thing is that at that time the WoW developer team was kinda small so revamping 2 continents... with close to no preparations... was a huge work load on the entire team... and you can see they had to rush alot of zones and ideas...


    2nd.

    The reason an Expanion fails has many different reasons, saying that Cataclysm was so bad only because of the revamp is very narrow eyed and close minded...


    3rd.

    Today we have so many different systems that would make all that revamp they do to the world could make it max level content to, 1 of the core reason cataslym failed is because if was a great idea but it was done way before its time... all the stuff they revamped had no systems that would make it be used at max level, but today we do have so many new systems that could make the entire continent max level content.


    4th.

    In Warlords of Dreanor, Legion, BFA... and shadowlands, you can see that they have done alot of the Preparations and Updating of old grapics... so an Azeroth revamp would be way less work for the entire team since half the job is allready done, so many of the legion and BFA zones has stuff from the past but updated..


    5th.

    Today we have so many yeas of experiance and learn so many new techniques... so why not try it again.


    6th.

    The team today is super huge... if you put it in confrontation with the team we had in Cataclysm



    PS: What do they say... if you fall of a bike... you should throw that bike away and never try again... ofc not... if you think that the revamp faild so many years ago... we should try again..
    I agree with one and three through six, I'd forgotten they have a larger team now. As for two, you misunderstood me. I was just saying that the complaint I remember the most from that era, like MoP's daily burnout and WoD's lack of outdoor to do, was that they felt there was so much energy spent on the world remake that they endgame was thin.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  6. #86
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I agree with one and three through six, I'd forgotten they have a larger team now. As for two, you misunderstood me. I was just saying that the complaint I remember the most from that era, like MoP's daily burnout and WoD's lack of outdoor to do, was that they felt there was so much energy spent on the world remake that they endgame was thin.
    Well, then I have you excuse my misunderstanding, wish you a good day
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by themortalgod View Post
    I assume you are being hyperbolic? Wrath came out 636 weeks ago. Something tells me you would have gotten bored of Kara a very long time ago.

    I only think burnout happens in this game when the ratio of fun activities to boring activities becomes lopsided for a long period of time.

    For me, right now PVP, M+, and raiding is fun. The maw, Torghast, dailies, chores, farming, etc is nauseating.

    Though, I also feel some degree of burnout is inevitable, no matter what Blizzard does. you can't play the game non-stop for literally decades without needing breaks. At least the vast majority of people can't. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. We all pine for endless content but if say Blizzard actually had the resources so that a new patch and raid was hitting just as most players cleared the previous one there would still be a need for breaks. Gaps are good, they give us a chance to do other things for a while.
    I totally agree, but back in those days all you had to do was Raid Log which I also loved. I am basically back to that with SL, I have my lvl 4 cloak no reason to touch Toreghast for a good while, Screw the Maw never done anything other than the initial quest which should be skippable after doing it once and weekly quest for souls, M+ sucks and has never been fun for me I hate being rushed through content and despise the timer aspect of it and that coupled with having to kite mobds as a tank so they dont hit you and you know you do tank stuff to them is dumb design, I have always despised 1 shot mechanics and think they are dumb waste of time. Raid is quite easy so that only takes about 30 mins or so to kill the last bosses for the week and then I just PVP which is the most rewarding content this xpac that and it is always different. But I like do log on a day or 2 a week do my preferred content and be done for the week.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I totally agree, but back in those days all you had to do was Raid Log which I also loved. I am basically back to that with SL, I have my lvl 4 cloak no reason to touch Toreghast for a good while, Screw the Maw never done anything other than the initial quest which should be skippable after doing it once and weekly quest for souls, M+ sucks and has never been fun for me I hate being rushed through content and despise the timer aspect of it and that coupled with having to kite mobds as a tank so they dont hit you and you know you do tank stuff to them is dumb design, I have always despised 1 shot mechanics and think they are dumb waste of time. Raid is quite easy so that only takes about 30 mins or so to kill the last bosses for the week and then I just PVP which is the most rewarding content this xpac that and it is always different. But I like do log on a day or 2 a week do my preferred content and be done for the week.
    That isn't true, just like now there was lots of work to do to prepare for raid both in terms of getting ready to be initially viable and to pay for materials to cover the costs of repairs, enchants, gems, ammunition, consumable, etcs.

    I was a hunter at the time and the ratio was at least 1:1 of farming to raiding just to cover the cost of my bullets. I remember logging in and spending countless hours running in circles on elemental plateau farming motes. The cost to raid was vastly higher back then if you correct for inflation.

    The diversity of grind activities certainly was smaller but the time invested was similar.

    Right now I feel like I am the closest to being able to raid log that I have ever been. Once you have your max legendary, Torg is mostly just optional. The Maw is optional unless you want to min/max with gems. Dailies are optional unless you want to build the rep to maximize your cosmetic rewards. Renown can be maxed within an hour or so of reset each week. You only really need to do a single M+ or high rated PVP activity to have a chance at getting a good vault reward. My guild is currently 9/12 heroic, we aren't pushing cutting edge by any means but I have several raiders who are effectively just raiding logging and have been for a while. Sure they could min/max with more effort but we know we have enough gear to get AOTC already so we aren't motivated to obsess over pushing our gear to the epitome.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by themortalgod View Post
    That isn't true, just like now there was lots of work to do to prepare for raid both in terms of getting ready to be initially viable and to pay for materials to cover the costs of repairs, enchants, gems, ammunition, consumable, etcs.

    I was a hunter at the time and the ratio was at least 1:1 of farming to raiding just to cover the cost of my bullets. I remember logging in and spending countless hours running in circles on elemental plateau farming motes. The cost to raid was vastly higher back then if you correct for inflation.

    The diversity of grind activities certainly was smaller but the time invested was similar.

    Right now I feel like I am the closest to being able to raid log that I have ever been. Once you have your max legendary, Torg is mostly just optional. The Maw is optional unless you want to min/max with gems. Dailies are optional unless you want to build the rep to maximize your cosmetic rewards. Renown can be maxed within an hour or so of reset each week. You only really need to do a single M+ or high rated PVP activity to have a chance at getting a good vault reward. My guild is currently 9/12 heroic, we aren't pushing cutting edge by any means but I have several raiders who are effectively just raiding logging and have been for a while. Sure they could min/max with more effort but we know we have enough gear to get AOTC already so we aren't motivated to obsess over pushing our gear to the epitome.
    I guess I have always been in good guilds and I farmed Herbs back when you could fly and made flasks and then I was done for the week I made 25-30 flasks a week which didnt take long as all the other herbalists just threw mats to me and I made the flasks for the raid and was done. Now I just raid log and be done.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I guess I have always been in good guilds and I farmed Herbs back when you could fly and made flasks and then I was done for the week I made 25-30 flasks a week which didnt take long as all the other herbalists just threw mats to me and I made the flasks for the raid and was done. Now I just raid log and be done.
    Yeah, maybe, idk, I had herb back then too but herbing was less efficient than farming motes. To pay for the best bullets for my hunter I remember it being about 1-2 hours of farming (depending on how much competition there was fighting me for mobs) to every hour of raiding. I made all my own pots/flasks. I was a transmute master and every once in a while I'd get a big proc on my Primal Might cooldown and it was like such a relief to not have to farm as much for a week or two.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Torghast. That wasn't hard at all.
    I guess you didn't play 8.3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  12. #92
    I actually think implementation of rares and mounts requiring grinding, running mazes or making difficult jumps is a Nice little timekiller/challenge.

    I dont even have the window to raid yet not nearly bored with SL yet. Most computer games get boring after 2-3 months, so SL is running solid assuming we get a content patch in spring

  13. #93
    Specifically on the point of flying: for people who want to be able to stay on the ground I think this is just a matter of making ground speed faster than flying. Flying is still useful for going over larger terrain like mountains, but land speed would then be preferred for those periods where you can go in enough of a line to be worth it. With the speed between the two properly balanced both can feel like they can use the one they prefer. Additionally, mount-specific abilities like GW2 may introduce ways to travel for ground mounts that may make them worth over flying situationally, and flying mounts situationally better than grounded - this would work, too.

  14. #94
    nothing u can do to retail will change this.

    onyl way is new mmo but thats actually good

    and the one with the closest chance is league mmo

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