overwolf going the wrong way

[Tercio]

Sooo, WowUp invented the history of them getting a C&D (cease and decease) letter and everybody fell for that? Oh boy

[Difuid]

I wonder how much it costs to host the CurseForge WoW addon database, the server infrastructure and the data transfer it generates. Does anybody have any info about that?

[thunderdragon2]

Exactly. All the playerd complaining here think is "take take take" and likely have never donated a dime to any addon maker.

i disagree i think many people he just extremally dislike overwolf due to past experiences

[Relapses]

Sooo, WowUp invented the history of them getting a C&D (cease and decease) letter and everybody fell for that? Oh boy

These kinds of accusations don't just materialize out of thin air. It may have been editorialized but the fact that OW even initiated talks in this direction does set a bad precedent.

[rhorle]

These kinds of accusations don't just materialize out of thin air. It may have been editorialized but the fact that OW even initiated talks in this direction does set a bad precedent.

Why is it a bad precedent? Why is it wrong for the owner of a product to want to restrict access or maximize their own revenue? Why do they have to allow free loaders?

[Relapses]

Why is it a bad precedent? Why is it wrong for the owner of a product to want to restrict access or maximize their own revenue? Why do they have to allow free loaders?

For all of the reasons I outlined in my previous post?

[rhorle]

For all of the reasons I outlined in my previous post?

So it is a bad precedent because no one else wants to cover the costs of operating an addon website. Weird. There is nothing wrong with that. Anyone can start up a competitor. Again you are claiming it is a bad for a company to stop free loaders from using their stuff. You also confuse popular with monopoly. Curseforge is not the only source of WoWaddons. It is only the most popular. Wowinterface still exists though I'm not sure how much it is used. Tuk/elv ui both have their addons hosted on their own website etc.

[Relapses]

So it is a bad precedent because no one else wants to cover the costs of operating an addon website. Weird. There is nothing wrong with that. Anyone can start up a competitor. Again you are claiming it is a bad for a company to stop free loaders from using their stuff. You also confuse popular with monopoly. Curseforge is not the only source of WoWaddons. It is only the most popular. Wowinterface still exists though I'm not sure how much it is used. Tuk/elv ui both have their addons hosted on their own website etc.

This is the exact type of rhetoric that I find frankly infuriating. Just because something is popular doesn't always mean that it's okay for them to monopolize or enforce anti-consumer policies. Not wanting to have bloatware shoved down your throat to utilize an add-on manager seems like a fairly innocuous ask yet here you are calling these people "free loaders," as if they're actively taking from the pockets of {BRAND}. You see these same kinds of arguments crop up whenever Apple or Google are accused of cornering a market for profit. And yeah, I get it. Intellectual property is a real thing and it means something -- we shouldn't just throw it out the window; but at the same time we shouldn't just sit back and let the cold arm of capitalism dictate the morality of consumer choice. Just because something is technically legal doesn't always mean it's the best way forward.

[rhorle]

This is the exact type of rhetoric that I find frankly infuriating. Just because something is popular doesn't always mean that it's okay for them to monopolize or enforce anti-consumer policies. Not wanting to have bloatware shoved down your throat to utilize an add-on manager seems like a fairly innocuous ask yet here you are calling these people "free loaders," as if they're actively taking from the pockets of {BRAND}.

They are not monopolizing or enforcing anti-consumer policies. Websites have the right to control access to their servers and information. You are infuriated because someone is not giving something away for free. You have also not shown that it will be bloatware with their new app. Of course third party apps are free loaders. They are not paying for the services but making use of them. They are not paying to keep the servers running but are getting full use of those servers. What is weird is that you are here having a moral hissy fit over such a thing.

This is nothing even remotely close to Apple or Google cornering a market for profit. Overwatch is not cornering Addons. WoWUp, Singularity, or even yourself is perfectly free to create a competing service. And given all this outrage with Overwolf you could easily corner the market yourself by being the "white knight". But oh wait that would be bad right?

[Az0na]

I find it funny they said they do it for the authors of addon makers so they do not lose money.

I got 2 addons simple ones but still its used and I never seen a dime from them. Also isnt it against blizzard rulebook to gain money from addons in the first place? Beside freely donations?

All i see them is bitching they lose money of adds and make you feel guilty by saying “think of addon authors!”

Anyway as long as manuel downloading is possible there is way for manager to keep working. People always find a way, like those pesky hackers in FPS games.

[rhorle]

I got 2 addons simple ones but still its used and I never seen a dime from them. Also isnt it against blizzard rulebook to gain money from addons in the first place? Beside freely donations?

Profit sharing is not against Blizzards rules. Curse has been doing it long before Overwolf or even Amazon (Twitch) bought them. You can not charge for an addon or directly ask for donations with the addon. It is acceptable to have a link to support (or receive a share of money from hosting sites) for the addon.

[Haydukelives]

Sooo, WowUp invented the history of them getting a C&D (cease and decease) letter and everybody fell for that? Oh boy

FWIW WowUp never claimed they got a C&D. The author simply said on his Patreon that he had been in communication with Overwolf. Through the game of telephone that morphed into C&D.

- - - Updated - - -

I find it funny they said they do it for the authors of addon makers so they do not lose money.

I got 2 addons simple ones but still its used and I never seen a dime from them. Also isnt it against blizzard rulebook to gain money from addons in the first place? Beside freely donations?.

Well to be fair, it has been Twitch in charge of remuneration up until now. It won't be up to Overwolf until they have control of the operation (the 20th). They say they want to increase compensation to addon authors by 50% by some such date. But 50% more of nothing is still nothing so it probably wouldn't matter in your case. You should really just upload your stuff on Wowinterface or Github though if you want addon managers to continue to access your addons.

[Relapses]

They are not monopolizing or enforcing anti-consumer policies. Websites have the right to control access to their servers and information. You are infuriated because someone is not giving something away for free. You have also not shown that it will be bloatware with their new app. Of course third party apps are free loaders. They are not paying for the services but making use of them. They are not paying to keep the servers running but are getting full use of those servers. What is weird is that you are here having a moral hissy fit over such a thing.

This is nothing even remotely close to Apple or Google cornering a market for profit. Overwatch is not cornering Addons. WoWUp, Singularity, or even yourself is perfectly free to create a competing service. And given all this outrage with Overwolf you could easily corner the market yourself by being the "white knight". But oh wait that would be bad right?

Is this kind of like pulling myself up by my bootstraps and buying a house on a sub-20k/yr salary?

The lack of a viable alternative is precisely why OW moving to privatize their API is concerning. In time I'm sure another database can build itself up but in the interim we have to deal with the hand we're dealt. And that hand leaves almost all of the power concerning the distribution of add-ons in the hands of an entity that has shown repeatedly in the past that it has done nothing worthy of our trust.

[rrayy]

This is the exact type of rhetoric that I find frankly infuriating. Just because something is popular doesn't always mean that it's okay for them to monopolize or enforce anti-consumer policies. Not wanting to have bloatware shoved down your throat to utilize an add-on manager seems like a fairly innocuous ask yet here you are calling these people "free loaders," as if they're actively taking from the pockets of {BRAND}. You see these same kinds of arguments crop up whenever Apple or Google are accused of cornering a market for profit. And yeah, I get it. Intellectual property is a real thing and it means something -- we shouldn't just throw it out the window; but at the same time we shouldn't just sit back and let the cold arm of capitalism dictate the morality of consumer choice. Just because something is technically legal doesn't always mean it's the best way forward.

They aren't doing anythign of the sort. They have the right to control the database they own. Other place no longer being able to frreeload to give it to you for free does not mean they are doing anything you say. Those freeloaders you love so much are completely free to start their own databses of add-ons. And it's ironic that you say intellectual property shouldn't be thrown out the window because what you want is exactly that. Letting the freeloaders continue to freeload does in fact thorw the IP out the window.

[Relapses]

They aren't doing anythign of the sort. They have the right to control the database they own. Other place no longer being able to frreeload to give it to you for free does not mean they are doing anything you say. Those freeloaders you love so much are completely free to start their own databses of add-ons. And it's ironic that you say intellectual property shouldn't be thrown out the window because what you want is exactly that. Letting the freeloaders continue to freeload does in fact thorw the IP out the window.

You got so close to getting to the end of my post where I specifically addressed this.

[rhorle]

The lack of a viable alternative is precisely why OW moving to privatize their API is concerning. In time I'm sure another database can build itself up but in the interim we have to deal with the hand we're dealt. And that hand leaves almost all of the power concerning the distribution of add-ons in the hands of an entity that has shown repeatedly in the past that it has done nothing worthy of our trust.

But there is a viable alternative. WoWinterface. Github. They are moving to privatize the API because they don't like people leeching off of their servers with out a way to off set that cost. They shouldn't be required to give things away for free just because. It is surprising though that Amazon allowed it though they didn't seem to be interested in the revenue of Curseforge but rather some other data analytics or boost to early Twitch and Prime gaming stats.

[jediknight12]

ill use whatever has the addons I use preferably free but I'm ok with donation link for addon developers/hoster.

[Utrrabbit]

If you were paid for punting small children into a volcano would you still be proud of the work you're doing? There are better ways to monetize add-on creation that don't rely on pumping people's PCs full of malicious bloatware.

You do a job, you should be paid for it. That is the point. It does not matter who does the paying.

[Baneto]

I dont understand why there are three persons in this thread defending the Overwolf-company with tooth and nails.

Seems kinda fishy if you ask me.

[Omedon]

This is one of the things that I understand very little about and that might have earthshattering consequences.

I read the first few pages of this thread, and some twitter discussions around this topic and... this quote seems to define a lot of the community right now. Like the people thinking they'll just keep curse/twitch client, or WoWup whether Overwolf applies pressure or not.

I'm sure someone in this thread has or will clarify exactly what people need to know. I'm pretty sure I understand it so that's good enough for me, but... yeah this is potentially going to land like a ton of bricks in the laps of a lot of people when it finally hashes out.

I guess the best advice I can give is: keep using what you're using until it stops working. When that happens (and it is a "when" for curse/twitch, and is potentially a when for WoWup), do your research on the options that are available. I personally have a guildie that works in infosec looking into it, and unless Overwolf is actually as bad as some people make it sound, I won't have a problem using it... but only if WoWup stops working, which the developer has intimated may yet happen... but it hasn't yet. If you don't like the options that work, yes, one returns to the stone age of manual updates.

This may be a... fun trainwreck to watch. But it may very well be a trainwreck if the convenience bleeds out of updating some "core addons." I don't think it's impossible that a lot of vocal anti-overwolf people quietly switch to overwolf for the sake of convenient function at this critical point of expansion start. For the record, I wouldn't blame them.