overwolf going the wrong way

[Relapses]

This may be a... fun trainwreck to watch. But it may very well be a trainwreck if the convenience bleeds out of updating some "core addons." I don't think it's impossible that a lot of vocal anti-overwolf people quietly switch to overwolf for the sake of convenient function at this critical point of expansion start. For the record, I wouldn't blame them.

The only thing that would cause me to switch to the OW client is if it were made mandatory to download add-ons from Curse. I doubt they'd go this route (at least right away), but as many of the pro-OW people have correctly observed... it's their database and they can do whatever the fuck they want with it.

I guess it's up to us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and start an open source alternative to Curse before it's too late.

[Runstarr]

I never liked overwolf, gonna use wowup.

[ThiagoTorres]

I dont understand why there are three persons in this thread defending the Overwolf-company with tooth and nails.

Seems kinda fishy if you ask me.

Employees defending their job.. Overwolf always was trahs and always will be

I really hope wowup take the place of twitch app.. tbh i never got any issues with twitch when i download and update my addons

[Critical92]

Twitch app and curse are the same like overwolf and curse will be. Curse is the database and the app is the modmanager. Overwolf bought curse, so the database all the independant modmanager accessed belongs to overwolf now.
The overwolf manager will backfire as soon as the first machines get infected with malware because the overwolf ads are shit. Would you guys download a app that can infect your machines?
I will not, even if it is just a rumor.

[Ielenia]

I dont understand why there are three persons in this thread defending the Overwolf-company with tooth and nails.

Seems kinda fishy if you ask me.

So you're saying that, if a company that has done malpractices in the past, it means it is now fair game to be taken advantage of?

Because that is the reason why Overwolf is doing this: those other third-party addon managers are taking advantage of Overwolf by doing unauthorized download of mods from Overwolf's database.

[rrayy]

I guess the best advice I can give is: keep using what you're using until it stops working. When that happens (and it is a "when" for curse/twitch, and is potentially a when for WoWup), do your research on the options that are available. I personally have a guildie that works in infosec looking into it, and unless Overwolf is actually as bad as some people make it sound, I won't have a problem using it... but only if WoWup stops working, which the developer has intimated may yet happen... but it hasn't yet. If you don't like the options that work, yes, one returns to the stone age of manual updates.

October 20th is when they officially take over.

- - - Updated - - -

Employees defending their job.. Overwolf always was trahs and always will be

I really hope wowup take the place of twitch app.. tbh i never got any issues with twitch when i download and update my addons

We don't work for them. Believe it or not, people disagree with you. Apparently, none of you are able to handle that.

- - - Updated - - -

But there is a viable alternative. WoWinterface. Github. They are moving to privatize the API because they don't like people leeching off of their servers with out a way to off set that cost. They shouldn't be required to give things away for free just because. It is surprising though that Amazon allowed it though they didn't seem to be interested in the revenue of Curseforge but rather some other data analytics or boost to early Twitch and Prime gaming stats.

Amazon likely forgot they owned it as it was so far down the list of what they owned that it was irrelevant.

[Chumahki]

Nah, Curse fucked me over once before. I neither forgive nor forget. They can lick the dingleberries off of my ass.

[Tercio]

To shed some light on some misinformation being spread about the blog post from Overwolf here:

"The API is Public": half truth, the API is used by the Twitch App and was discovered by reverse engineering. With the API in hands, mod managers for Linux was created
as well for Mac and Windows as alternatives, at that point the bandwidth usage was insignificant. Nowadays are a different history with the grow of 3rd party apps.

"They closed the public API": not truth, the API is up, also accordingly with their post, they want to talk with people from these 3rd party apps.

"They want to kill the little guys": not truth as mentioned above, on their blog post there's a mention of dialogue with any mod manager to address the fundamental issues.

"They want monopoly": that's not possible, WoWInterface is a legit website for getting addons with a large user base and their own app.

"They sent a C&D letter": not truth, the rumor started on reddit and also ended there.

These are the three key points that Overwolf cited on their blog post about the API:

These 3rd party services distribute the authors’ creations without receiving their consent
Truth: Around 1/4 of addons has a license that reserves the right of distribution for the author.
Twitch does share these addons on their public/leaked API even with authors of these addons asking them to stop sharing.
The problem got bigger with 3rd party apps getting these addons and re-distributing them for their users.

Authors’ earnings are impacted, as CurseForge has no way of monitoring engagement outside its own ecosystem
Truth: authors revenue are directly affected by the API on a 1:1 scale as these 3rd party apps does not show adds for Twitch (and now Overwolf).
Half Truth: it's not possible measure engagement, but download counter certainly is.

Downloads originated from 3rd party services rely on CurseForge servers and CDN, incurring substantial costs and offering nothing to cover them
Truth: Twitch does pay the bills of bandwidth and storage used by 3rd party apps hence these apps does not pay for anything. Twitch is passing this bill to Overwolf very soon.

[Baneto]

So you're saying that, if a company that has done malpractices in the past, it means it is now fair game to be taken advantage of?

Because that is the reason why Overwolf is doing this: those other third-party addon managers are taking advantage of Overwolf by doing unauthorized download of mods from Overwolf's database.

The addons were free from the beginning, and were always supposed to.

Maybe if Overwolf wasnt greedy and wanted to monopolize the whole addon manager-industry...

Sorry I dont buy into their crap, Overwolf can suck it.

[Ielenia]

The addons were free from the beginning, and were always supposed to.

They still are. Overwolf is not putting a price tag behind them.

Maybe if Overwolf wasnt greedy and wanted to monopolize the whole addon manager-industry...

And they're not. I'm quoting what I wrote in a different thread:

This has nothing to do with "copyrights", of addons or addon managers, whatsoever. It's about the fact that third-party addon managers would scrape (i.e. download without authorization) the mods from CurseForge's database.

Overwolf is not telling the addon manager developers to kill their programs, they're not sending C&D letters, they're not forbidding other developers from making addon managers. They're simply saying "make your own database, or go download your mods from someone else's database, but you don't have access to ours anymore."

And as for the addon developers, they're not "forced" to keep their mobs on OverWolf's databases only. They're free to host their mods on their own websites as well, as well as in any other addon hosting service, like WoWInterface and GitHub.

Sorry I dont buy into their crap, Overwolf can suck it.

You could at least be a little honest and inform yourself about the actual situation before spouting falsehoods. Then again, you're trying to redefine what "pay-to-win" means in a different thread, so perhaps you're trying to redefine what "free addons" and "monopolize" mean?

[Greyfang]

To shed some light on some misinformation being spread about the blog post from Overwolf here:

"The API is Public": half truth, the API is used by the Twitch App and was discovered by reverse engineering. With the API in hands, mod managers for Linux was created
as well for Mac and Windows as alternatives, at that point the bandwidth usage was insignificant. Nowadays are a different history with the grow of 3rd party apps.

"They closed the public API": not truth, the API is up, also accordingly with their post, they want to talk with people from these 3rd party apps.

"They want to kill the little guys": not truth as mentioned above, on their blog post there's a mention of dialogue with any mod manager to address the fundamental issues.

"They want monopoly": that's not possible, WoWInterface is a legit website for getting addons with a large user base and their own app.

"They sent a C&D letter": not truth, the rumor started on reddit and also ended there.

These are the three key points that Overwolf cited on their blog post about the API:

These 3rd party services distribute the authors’ creations without receiving their consent
Truth: Around 1/4 of addons has a license that reserves the right of distribution for the author.
Twitch does share these addons on their public/leaked API even with authors of these addons asking them to stop sharing.
The problem got bigger with 3rd party apps getting these addons and re-distributing them for their users.

Authors’ earnings are impacted, as CurseForge has no way of monitoring engagement outside its own ecosystem
Truth: authors revenue are directly affected by the API on a 1:1 scale as these 3rd party apps does not show adds for Twitch (and now Overwolf).
Half Truth: it's not possible measure engagement, but download counter certainly is.

Downloads originated from 3rd party services rely on CurseForge servers and CDN, incurring substantial costs and offering nothing to cover them
Truth: Twitch does pay the bills of bandwidth and storage used by 3rd party apps hence these apps does not pay for anything. Twitch is passing this bill to Overwolf very soon.

Thank you for the added info an context, there's a lot of misinformation around in this thread and it helps clueless users like myself make an educated choice. One of the things a lot of people repeat about Overwolf is related to security issues with their app. As an addon author yourself, do you have any opinion on that? I've used the curse app and twitch without problems, but I admit I'm a bit peeved by the stories others have shared about overwolf security concerns.

[rrayy]

Thank you for the added info an context, there's a lot of misinformation around in this thread and it helps clueless users like myself make an educated choice. One of the things a lot of people repeat about Overwolf is related to security issues with their app. As an addon author yourself, do you have any opinion on that? I've used the curse app and twitch without problems, but I admit I'm a bit peeved by the stories others have shared about overwolf security concerns.

Well they are supposedly making a new app for this which is separate from the app they currently have for other games, so you can't make any declarations about it until it goes live next week.

[Greyfang]

Well they are supposedly making a new app for this which is separate from the app they currently have for other games, so you can't make any declarations about it until it goes live next week.

I've heard conflicting reports on this. Some have said it's the same app, others it's a separate app. However, even if it's a separate app, if they've had security issues in the past, they may be translated to the new app. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[tomten]

No, they are selling the guide. You aren't buying an addon because you aren't altering the game in any way with it like addons do.

What? Zygor auto turnins completed quests for you, automatically accept new quests, chooses quest rewards, auto equip, auto sell, auto take flight paths and a ton of other things. Its basically a bot lol.

[Relapses]

"They want monopoly": that's not possible, WoWInterface is a legit website for getting addons with a large user base and their own app.

I find this statement a bit difficult to believe when a.) you're a content creator who obviously has a bit of a vested interest in what OW is trying to accomplish and b.) when you compare the relative popularity of a website like wowinterface to that of Curse's you realize that the likelihood of other websites taking over Curse is incredibly unlikely (at least short-term):



They don't "want" a monopoly. They already have one.

Curse is the de facto destination for WoW add-ons. Curse knows this and I'd presume OW knows this as well. Perhaps this is a bit cynical but I can definitely see a world where OW makes it so that you have to use their app to access Curse's database since that will ensure other mods are not scraping (see: WowUp) while also enabling them to keep better tabs on the "engagement metrics" by which add-on developers are paid. Great for content creators like yourself but still puts the consumer in a difficult position where the only way to download an add-on for WoW is to install a program that will serve ads to you. (At least on a website you can opt-out of the ads with an adblocker and choose to support an add-on developer directly through something like Patreon.) Technically the add-on is "free" as per Blizzard's ToS but OW gets to use Curse's database to its advantage to essentially strongarm WoW players into getting ads served to them for the "right" to use a database.

[Aggressive]

Oh, so they're scum. I see. I'd rather manually install addons than install that shite.

Me and you both. But I been installing my addons manually for 16 years anyway. So to hell with Overwolf

[ThiagoTorres]

It is true that OW usually use spyware on their app?

[rrayy]

What? Zygor auto turnins completed quests for you, automatically accept new quests, chooses quest rewards, auto equip, auto sell, auto take flight paths and a ton of other things. Its basically a bot lol.

That isn't altering the game. That is automating the process. There is a difference between altering the game and automating existing processes.

[iamthedevil]

It is true that OW usually use spyware on their app?

You are their product.

[Ielenia]

They don't "want" a monopoly. They already have one.

That's not a monopoly. That's "brand name".

For it to be a monopoly, addon creators on CurseForge would not be allowed to post their mods anywhere else. No one else would be allowed to have an addon database for downloads. And anyone who tried would be faced with C&Ds and the like to be made to stop.

The simple fact places like GitHub and WoWInterface exist, and, hell, even the own addon authors' websites, proves that it's not a 'monopoly'.

What you're arguing here is the same as stating that Walmart in my city has a "monopoly on supermarkets" because its "traffic and engagement" is vastly superior to the local family supermarket a few blocks away from my house.