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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I got a few...

    1) Cata is the worst WoW expansion... I have made paragraphs full of reasons to this in the past, back when people were saying WoD was the worst. Now with BfA out I still think Cata is the worst and that WoD is second, BfA comes at 3rd worst. I still rank both Cata and WoD below it.

    2) Jaina's redemption storyline in BfA is Blizzards best storytelling in game since Vanilla WoW's Tirion questchain.

    3) The Arthas storyline from Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos is over rated. Not saying it is bad, its great. But the standards people hold it to are astounding, especially considering how cliche the storyline really is. With that said, it picked up and got better in The Frozen Throne.
    The only people I seewho don't think cata was the worst expansion are Wrath babies or newer. The only good thing cata had going for it was the dungeons. Class design was awful, story was awful, raiding was boring, the zones looked nice but were a nightmare, etc...

    For all of WoDs and BFAs faults, at least they were fun while their content was fresh and if you were raid logging you enjoyed 2-6 hours a week (maybe not uldir). Cata was never fun.

  2. #522
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Classic

    F** the premades meta
    F** the world buffs meta

  3. #523
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Catchup mechanics are dumb (alts are very ok) and Blizzard is in a rut. Ironically most people who cry about content drought also skip it all with welfare.

    inb4 "U R ELITIST!" even though average players suffer the most from this problem, ur gear grind is worthless and ur progression is worthless all because the next freebies are better/equal. Mythic raiders are the only ones unscathed! as the gear/prog they get is needed right than and there to beat Mythic.

    Blizzard got so desperate to keep people raiding even though average person says "screw this i'll just wait for patch freebies" they started limited time mounts like grove warden and spell wing because gear progression was so useless waste of time for average player!! I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard made limited time transmog tints/colours per raid tier to make doing a raid more than once worth it for average player!!
    Last edited by Daffan; 2020-10-24 at 12:23 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  4. #524
    I enjoyed Cata, WoD, and BfA.
    Vanilla wasn’t as great as everyone remembers.
    Arthas does not deserve a redemption story.
    Giving Illidan a redemption story ruined a decent villain and brought out one of the easiest to play classes, more so than Hunter.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    The only people I seewho don't think cata was the worst expansion are Wrath babies or newer. The only good thing cata had going for it was the dungeons. Class design was awful, story was awful, raiding was boring, the zones looked nice but were a nightmare, etc...

    For all of WoDs and BFAs faults, at least they were fun while their content was fresh and if you were raid logging you enjoyed 2-6 hours a week (maybe not uldir). Cata was never fun.
    Played since late classic, raided from TBC onwards. Cata was average, but BfA was much worse. My personal ranking remains TBC >=~ Legion >= MoP >>> Wrath > Cata >= WoD > BfA.

    BfA had content, but the gameplay was so shit I just didn't want to play it (I didn't for most of it). WoD had pretty damn good gameplay (for what I was playing at the time), but lacked the content. Put the best parts of each expansion together & you end up with something that's potentially brilliant, while if you put the shortcomings of each together, you wind up with something irredeemably shit.

  6. #526
    WoW has gotten better over time, and most peoples' problems with WoW are from personal burn out of playing the same game for 15+ years and not because of whatever thing Blizzard changed.

  7. #527
    The game is fantastic and I enjoy playing it.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Played since late classic, raided from TBC onwards. Cata was average, but BfA was much worse. My personal ranking remains TBC >=~ Legion >= MoP >>> Wrath > Cata >= WoD > BfA.

    BfA had content, but the gameplay was so shit I just didn't want to play it (I didn't for most of it). WoD had pretty damn good gameplay (for what I was playing at the time), but lacked the content. Put the best parts of each expansion together & you end up with something that's potentially brilliant, while if you put the shortcomings of each together, you wind up with something irredeemably shit.
    I see it a bit differently, BFA is very much Legion 2.0, class design is exactly the same just BFA borrowed power systems fell flat until 8.2 (granted Legions borrowed power was meh until 7.1.5). I think BFAs big issue is it shows how bored players get of content. Dailies, Mythic+, questing is pretty much exactly the same. BFA also told some really strong stories, such as Bwonsamdi, Talanji, the Snek Church, Jaina's story, Drustvar. BfD is also one of the best raid we've had in a while, Uldir was meh, some cool fights, but ... Eternal Palace and Nyolotha are just copies of the Legion last 2 raids. Just purple instead of green.

    Thats kind of my point... there is just more to BFA/Legion vs Cata. Cata was so unremarkable. I can remember playing vanilla, tbc, wrath pretty clearly. What I did daily, what I felt about the game. Cata made me quit, I didn't get a chance at MOP but played a little of WoD and that I remember clearly too, class design was great, the zones were cool, Legion and BFA same story. Cata, I remember none of it, it was boring, frustrating to play, it was a step back in every aspect.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >DH should have been the model for all DPS classes
    >4 to 5 buttons and respectable DPS for any and all content

    How much more boring do you want the class gameplay to be? Most specs are already hurting for interesting rotations to a pathetic degree.
    See I want 1 button BM Hunter back from BC, I play Healer for 95% of the content in game. When I play a DPS I want it to be a mindnumbingly easy set rotation like back in Wrath with Blood DK DPS, I play DPS as a break from having to do hard things so I want it to be simple and easy.

  10. #530
    The original voice actress for Sylvanas in WC3, Piera Coppola sounded superior to the new voice actress, Patty Mattson.

  11. #531
    Corruption was a great system for power

  12. #532
    I love levelling more than the end game

    I love Pandaria and the whole expansion as a whole as the best expansion ever.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    The only people I seewho don't think cata was the worst expansion are Wrath babies or newer. The only good thing cata had going for it was the dungeons. Class design was awful, story was awful, raiding was boring, the zones looked nice but were a nightmare, etc...

    For all of WoDs and BFAs faults, at least they were fun while their content was fresh and if you were raid logging you enjoyed 2-6 hours a week (maybe not uldir). Cata was never fun.
    I've played since Vanilla and I think Cata is better than anything that came after it. Loved the class design for the classes I played and the PvP. Every expansion after made me want to quit a couple weeks in, (except WoD, ironically).

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Now you're arguing semantics, and we could be here all day.
    Not really, you brought those things up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'm not here to state an argument for discussion, because that's not what this thread is about.
    Unpopular and contradictory / false statements are two different things.

    That's the point, your post contradicts itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'm not bashing raiders either, I want to see what would happen to the game if they got rid of as many non-raider related conveniences, or content they've added since TBC.
    The bloody irony is the fact that the game has been more "raid or die" in the "post TBC" era, hence putting TBC in there doesn't make a lick of sense in that context.

    Heck, all of this "people should be able to progress their character outside of raids" is directly inspired by TBC, yet implemented in such a bad fashion by comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Some posters here have echoed that WoD would be ideal, so I mentioned it.
    Doesn't change the fact that TBC has little to do with WoD.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-10-24 at 03:09 PM.

  15. #535
    DK should be reverted to be able to choose what spec to tank or dps with, and whether you want to DW or use 2h. The gimping issues of Wrath regarding weapons are gone (ie def rating, expertise, hit, etc). Also, the trees could easily have minor differences between versions tank and dps trees.

  16. #536
    Borrowed powers are necessary for each expac and the game would crumble without them.
    M+ (MDI) is unwatchable.
    WoW arena is the most interesting team-based PvP in video gaming.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    Raid bosses drop materials for crafting gear instead of direct drops of gear.
    I'd absolutely agree with this if we had correctly implemented zone scaling. There could be 2 loot tables for every instance and raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Tying allied races to prerequisites was one of the top 5 dumbest dev decisions in BfA.

  18. #538
    WoW works best as a side-process to watching videos or reading websites with the occasional new chunk of content to focus on than as a primary game to expect constant enjoyment and stimulation from.

    Collections are a far more viable end game than they are given credit - people always focus on raiding but the pursuit of collectables is just as valid.

  19. #539
    Arena is a mistake and should be removed for the sake of the game. It's one of the main reasons for homogenization between classes, and the original creators of arena have admitted to it being a mistake as well.
    PvP is at it's most fun in big battles. Arena does not provide this.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    I see it a bit differently, BFA is very much Legion 2.0, class design is exactly the same just BFA borrowed power systems fell flat until 8.2 (granted Legions borrowed power was meh until 7.1.5). I think BFAs big issue is it shows how bored players get of content. Dailies, Mythic+, questing is pretty much exactly the same. BFA also told some really strong stories, such as Bwonsamdi, Talanji, the Snek Church, Jaina's story, Drustvar. BfD is also one of the best raid we've had in a while, Uldir was meh, some cool fights, but ... Eternal Palace and Nyolotha are just copies of the Legion last 2 raids. Just purple instead of green.

    Thats kind of my point... there is just more to BFA/Legion vs Cata. Cata was so unremarkable. I can remember playing vanilla, tbc, wrath pretty clearly. What I did daily, what I felt about the game. Cata made me quit, I didn't get a chance at MOP but played a little of WoD and that I remember clearly too, class design was great, the zones were cool, Legion and BFA same story. Cata, I remember none of it, it was boring, frustrating to play, it was a step back in every aspect.
    I disagree on Legion vs BfA for two reasons: GCD changes, & the secondary stat changes. Going into Legion, Ion was talking about how they wanted to frontload secondary stats so that characters felt fantastic from the get go - And despite the shortcomings compared to WoD classes, they were some of the best first tier classes I've ever played. Going into Emerald Nightmare with 20%+ haste as a tank or 50%+ crit as a fire mage felt absolutely fantastic. Fast forward to BfA & that design decision is completely gone, & we're going into Uldir raid testing with pathetically low secondary stats, making everything feel sluggish on top of the GCD changes which were unwarranted & ridiculous.

    Also, Legion added M+ & the Mage Tower, BfA added Warfronts & Islands If we're going to look back at their impact on the game as a whole, there's no comparison, especially when you add stuff like World Quests & Paragon caches to the mix. The only place where I feel BfA perhaps has the edge over Legion is patch zones, but that's only because Mechagon is so damn good it carries the others. In comparison, Argus is average, & Broken Shore was woeful - That's honestly my biggest complaint against Legion.

    I also quit late into 4.3, but that was due to going absolutely ham chasing archaeology achievements for ungodly amounts of time each day rather than anything wildly wrong with the game. I had some great times in PvP with my own little 4-5 man BG premade where we managed to grind out Conqueror with a near 100% win rate I still have a few of those guys on the bnet list.

    Cata was unremarkable like you said, but unlike BfA, I didn't find it so obscenely bad that I had to quit for 18~ months right off the bat (with the odd month here & there). Questing was great, M+ is always enjoyable, but Warfronts were a failure, Island Expeditions were oversold (remember their AI hype), the War Campaign was poor, the patch content was either great (Mechagon) or shite (8.3 minus Visions, which fall into the average camp). The gameplay was just such a step back in so many levels I really don't regret anything about skipping BfA apart from perhaps missing out on an Uunat Mythic kill.

    To each their own, though!

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