Has LFR always been this bad?

[javierdsv]

If Blizzard could implement something like the DBM Addon into early raid difficulties it would be much more enjoyable. But yeah, people just queue without knowing what to expect and just press some buttons, die and stuff. Nothing you can really control.

Blizzard decided to keep a few mechanics on some bosses, and that makes it worse.

[Otimus]

the reason why it is worse this expac is because the devs actually tried to make bad players try to learn something. blizz didn't really nerf any lfr bosses just because of some complaining.

do you remember durumu in throne of thunder? on lfr, only about 5 people would survive the maze phase and they would kill the boss for the other 20 people who couldn't be bothered to learn. now imagine durumu from back then not being so easy that an easy mode raid boss could be five manned in what is meant for a 25 person raid.

that is what has changed. blizz is forcing these people into a brick wall and these people would rather continue to hit the brick wall than learn.

The problem there is the LFR reward, in either currency, loot, or experience far outstrips any need to do it. It's basically been sent to the gutter. Unless you really, really, really want to see a raid, there was, more or less, no reason to ever step foot in LFR. Some people like that, but don't realize absolutely how unhealthy it is for the game. By and large, people don't do organized content, and if the bottom end gets treated as gutter, eventually something is going to have to give, and it's probably going to be bad fir those at the top and bottom.

LFR should be rewarding until you can do Mythic+ or Normal raids. Currently it isn't. It's competitive with waaaaaaay easier content. And easier yet content offers better. That just doesn't seem right, and it means even more "sub for one patch and I'm out" players.

[mysticx]

If Blizzard could implement something like the DBM Addon into early raid difficulties it would be much more enjoyable. But yeah, people just queue without knowing what to expect and just press some buttons, die and stuff. Nothing you can really control.

Blizzard decided to keep a few mechanics on some bosses, and that makes it worse.

One issue is that mechanics can be pretty unintuitive, for instance, all bosses fling shit onto the ground like angry monkeys, but what you do about it varies wildly, do you avoid it? Soak it? (And if so, just one player or as many players as possible?), does it stick around until the end of the fight, or does it fade away? (Or get removed by the boss)

Sometimes there are two or more bosses, ok, do you keep them seperated? Together? Alternate DPS between the bosses? If so, when?

The descriptions in the raid journal are very dry, don't describe what the mechanics look like, and are a chore to decipher into what to actually do, other players flatly refuse to explain anything (If they don't get upset over the audacity of somebody asking), and admitting it's your first time fighting a boss is like sticking a "Kick me"-sign on your back.

One thing Blizz should assume in LfR is that people go in blind, lots of people do the "homework" about the fights, but so many people don't do it (That's the biggest issue, not so much lack of skill, but lack of out-of-game preparation) that it makes things utterly miserable for everybody, so make in-game cues (DBM-like, or maybe NPC call-outs on the more complex stuff) that make it less vague what is expected of the players.

[Huntermyth]

I found LFR gives you a false impression of what is and isnt important parts of the fight.

By most if not all of the mechanics being trivial people dont realise how much damage they are doing to themselves/the raid when they step into heroic because they are used to just zerging through and standing in the bad fire

partially true, just that i know what might be bad (i.e. fire in the ground) or not so it is a good first impression ( FOR ME) of the raid.

ofcourse not all of the lfr crowd gives attention to what's going on around them so it leads to wipes or longer than intended fights because of the numerous deads. i just join once to see what's going on and then never step inside an lfr unless there is a viable transmog option. all in all, i am in there for my own benefit and works well as of today.

[Tang0]

One issue is that mechanics can be pretty unintuitive, for instance, all bosses fling shit onto the ground like angry monkeys, but what you do about it varies wildly, do you avoid it? Soak it? (And if so, just one player or as many players as possible?), does it stick around until the end of the fight, or does it fade away? (Or get removed by the boss)

Sometimes there are two or more bosses, ok, do you keep them seperated? Together? Alternate DPS between the bosses? If so, when?

The descriptions in the raid journal are very dry, don't describe what the mechanics look like

Literally everything you described as a “problem” is very clearly detailed in boss description in journal.

It takes one literate person to read the journal, if need be, and explain the boss to people. That’s why there’s a consensus, that normal is easier than lfr. Higher chance to find at least a single person, who can read.

[Bloodyleech]

It wasn't just camera angles, with even a little bit of net lag that maze would eat you up. I had the PC for it, but I cant tell you the amount of times I would just die while still visually standing in safe spots because I had a little bit of a lag spike.

True true. My graphic card had problems in this fight, usually framestops every few seconds when he did the maze - still, it wasn't that hard even if people had some "small" (/deadly) problems with it. The probability that 20 out of 25 people had these problems is quite low so there had to be people that were just not smart enough to turn their camera slightly.

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One issue is that mechanics can be pretty unintuitive, for instance, all bosses fling shit onto the ground like angry monkeys, but what you do about it varies wildly, do you avoid it? Soak it? (And if so, just one player or as many players as possible?), does it stick around until the end of the fight, or does it fade away? (Or get removed by the boss)

Sometimes there are two or more bosses, ok, do you keep them seperated? Together? Alternate DPS between the bosses? If so, when?

The descriptions in the raid journal are very dry, don't describe what the mechanics look like, and are a chore to decipher into what to actually do, other players flatly refuse to explain anything (If they don't get upset over the audacity of somebody asking), and admitting it's your first time fighting a boss is like sticking a "Kick me"-sign on your back.

These things you wrote are quite clear in the raid journal. If a void has to be soaked, it will be described kinda like "if less than x people stay inside, it does Y more dmg or kills the raid". If a player plays longer than just one addon, he SHOULD(!) be able do clearly see what mechanic does what. You could throw me into a new raid, just reading the bossjournal and perfectly execute it, as I got enough informations via doing old content (playing since vanilla) to understand everything in a whim. I know, most people are not like this, that's totally fine - but one can still understand a bossfight just via journal, maybe after seeing it once or twice. imo the worst offender these times are boss addons like dbm - those take away the thought about stuff from the player themself, which means he probably will not understand some stuff that should be clear.

[aceperson]

The problem there is the LFR reward, in either currency, loot, or experience far outstrips any need to do it. It's basically been sent to the gutter. Unless you really, really, really want to see a raid, there was, more or less, no reason to ever step foot in LFR. Some people like that, but don't realize absolutely how unhealthy it is for the game. By and large, people don't do organized content, and if the bottom end gets treated as gutter, eventually something is going to have to give, and it's probably going to be bad fir those at the top and bottom.

LFR should be rewarding until you can do Mythic+ or Normal raids. Currently it isn't. It's competitive with waaaaaaay easier content. And easier yet content offers better. That just doesn't seem right, and it means even more "sub for one patch and I'm out" players.

i get what your saying, but when the average player in lfr doesn't move from the fire and refuses to when asked, they aren't going to be taken into other higher end content beyond maybe the first few bosses on normal. the fight right now is between people who refuse to learn a single thing about the game and good game design where things feel rewarding. it's better for the health of the game if these people are just left to ram their heads against a wall and everyone who can at least learn to not stand in fire have an enjoyable time.

i understand i sound cold-hearted in this post but i believe that you shouldn't waste time on people who are idiots and refuse to learn anything differently. my brother is such an example. after over a decade of getting arrested, kicked out of houses by friends and family, and constantly being poor, he still blames his 'friends and family' for all of his trouble. my brother is still ramming his head against a wall irl and just giving him a hundred grand isn't going to change that behavior or make his less of a menace to society.

[ihate2beapessimist]

LFR is its own challenge that should only be done for transmog purposes.
Helps when you queue with some friends who know whats going on.

[ceall]

Unfortunately the raiding scene is on the verge of collapse:

*Anyone who wants to progress on their own can only run LFR; it is extremely poorly tuned for solo end-game content (as you have experienced), which is disappointing considering that it is the future of raiding content
*Normal and beyond is basically impossible to get into right now solo unless you have millions of gold or already have the gear; this clearly implies that Normal and Heroic should probably be added to the LFD queue to remove gatekeeping corruption from the community (a la LFD, LFR)
*Guilds of players aren't raiding unless it's for gold as above.

If we get the status quo in Shadowlands I expect Blizzard to step in (whether they do or not is up to them).

One of the most delusional posts I've seen in a while.

1. Lfr the future of raiding content? Definitely not. Normal mode (and even heroic) is/can be "Solo" end-game content too.
2. No, just play the game and don't expect to get carried 5 months after a raid was released. You won't have any problems if you keep up with the curve. Also, if you don't like the requirements some group leaders set, then MAKE YOUR OWN FRIKKIN GROUP. Only part i agree with, is that there's too much advertising for boosts.
3. No, guilds are in fact raiding. Nyalotha is 10 months old, progress is over for at least 6 months now. Most guilds clear the raid in 1 raid night, leaving their other nights open for the opportunity to boost their guild bank by boosting willing buyers. Expect the number of boosts being offered to go down drastically during the first few months of SL.

I do however agree with you about blizzard stepping in, however not in the way you think. I think blizz will one day remove lfr and somehow makes Normal mode queue-able (with some reasonably hefty entry requirements).

[AwkwardSquirtle]

item level isn't the only thing that matters, surprise surprise. You can't just throw on whatever gear and expect to be good.

You can absolutely throw on whatever gear and expect to be good enough for LFR.

[Riistov]

To echo what others have said, its always been pretty bad..but LFR in the pre-patch is always a whole new level as it's filled with returning players who are unfamiliar with the mechanics.

OP, you absolutely need to step up and not be part of the problem. If you're willing to put in the effort and complain about it on a third party site..you can watch a video of the fight, its that simple.

[razorpax]

Currently lfr is essentially how it was in the end of MoP after the boosts were introduced

The ones saying “you can’t get into groups unless already geared” are full of shit
I got into normal groups at 437ilvl and honestly 445 loot is so common to get now if you aren’t near it then you are just lazy

[arkanon]

Currently lfr is essentially how it was in the end of MoP after the boosts were introduced

The ones saying “you can’t get into groups unless already geared” are full of shit
I got into normal groups at 437ilvl and honestly 445 loot is so common to get now if you aren’t near it then you are just lazy

Based on the ilvls you are giving, im guessing you havnt played pre-patch, let alone done lfr.

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Sorry you had a rough time of it, but what right do you have to complain about people not knowing the tactics when you, yourself, do not know the tactics?

Welcome to LFR logic - "everyone else doesnt know what to do, which is totally unfair because i have no idea what to do". Most commonly encountered by tanks, when one msgs the other and says "you know this?" and they reply "nope", to which the first replies "well we are fucked then, because i have no idea what to do - why did you queue if you dont know the strat?"

[Stormdash]

Has there been any value to doing LFR at all since post-MOP? In Dragon Soul and through MOP at least it was viable gear progression for alts or mains in casual guilds, and you could farm reskins of the tier sets.

Since then it's been pretty useless for both of those things. I can't remember the last LFR I ever queued for, and that's not 'hardcore snobbery' because I'm not one, I'm a normal/heroic difficulty raider. It just doesn't serve any purpose, especially with M+

[StillMcfuu]

I think there is a bug with the raid leader being queued in other queues that blocks the LFR from re-queuing when a player leaves.

[razorpax]

Based on the ilvls you are giving, im guessing you havnt played pre-patch, let alone done lfr.

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Welcome to LFR logic - "everyone else doesnt know what to do, which is totally unfair because i have no idea what to do". Most commonly encountered by tanks, when one msgs the other and says "you know this?" and they reply "nope", to which the first replies "well we are fucked then, because i have no idea what to do - why did you queue if you dont know the strat?"

I haven’t raided since prepatch but that doesn’t change the fact you are always able to raid without a what is now 100ilvl

As for lfr after I was in a group that wiped on vex 5 times due to tanks refusing to listen to ppl who knew what to do I preferred to get better gear from WQ and visions

Right now ppl are capping their new toons and thus are going through lower lfr with no gear similar to MoP with the 90 boost where ppl were failing horridon

Lfr is going to remain a mess until the next expansion

And let’s not pretend lfr is complicated you just have to read the dungeon journal

[Swnem]

So... you are unprepared and get upset that other people are unprepared?

Has it occured to you that the BfA players have no reason to queue LFR and it's a bunch of people like you that don't know what to do?

This is a hilarious and entitled story. Very representative of the modern gamer.

[Krakan]

Ny'alotha's LFR is extra... bad.
I really do not know why.

It has some semblance of mechanics and raiders dont need it.

[Nurmat]

LFR for Nyalotha is very bad, it wasn't tuned for 410 alts without cloak/essences/corruptions and extra credits for last 2 bosses

[Raisei]

One issue is that mechanics can be pretty unintuitive, for instance, all bosses fling shit onto the ground like angry monkeys, but what you do about it varies wildly, do you avoid it? Soak it? (And if so, just one player or as many players as possible?), does it stick around until the end of the fight, or does it fade away? (Or get removed by the boss)

Not quite true for the newer raids. Aoe and puddles have distinctive animations when they need to be soaked and look different when you have to share them. For instance, soaking puddles have these upwards pointing spirals and when someone is in it to soak they disappear as a sign that the condition is met. Aoe that needs to be shared has a loose circle around the target to indicate that it needs to be filled. It makes sense, but I admit that as a new player you will need time to figure these things out.

Sometimes there are two or more bosses, ok, do you keep them seperated? Together? Alternate DPS between the bosses? If so, when?

That is more a problem of reading Buffs on bosses, but there are also animations for it. For example take the Coven of Shivara in Antorus. If they are tanked together they receive a 99% damage reduction buff. It is visible on their portray and they get a white-ish glow to indicate their invulnerability. Or let take the Hounds of Sargeras. They get a damage buff when together. Indicated by them growing in size and a buff.

The descriptions in the raid journal are very dry, don't describe what the mechanics look like, and are a chore to decipher into what to actually do, other players flatly refuse to explain anything (If they don't get upset over the audacity of somebody asking), and admitting it's your first time fighting a boss is like sticking a "Kick me"-sign on your back.

One thing Blizz should assume in LfR is that people go in blind, lots of people do the "homework" about the fights, but so many people don't do it (That's the biggest issue, not so much lack of skill, but lack of out-of-game preparation) that it makes things utterly miserable for everybody, so make in-game cues (DBM-like, or maybe NPC call-outs on the more complex stuff) that make it less vague what is expected of the players.

I disagree that Blizzard should adjust to people going in blind. If anything LFR should prepare people how real raiding works and that means that you need to learn a few things before you can do it. Reading a bosses Buffs and deciphering the most important mechanics from the Adventure Guide is simply necessary. We are talking about endgame here, even if it is the lowest tier of endgame and very forgiving a certain amount of prep work is needed and it should be.

As for questions. It is fine to ask for tactics to deal with a certain mechanic, but a question like "Ok, what does this boss do?" Would require several paragraphs of answer typed out, when it is already standing in the Adventure Guide or anyone could look a 5 min video on YT (watch Hazzlenutty for quick guides and Fatboss when you want an indepth description).
It is just disrespectful to expect someone to explain the entire fight to you, because you could not be bothered to get at least an idea. And this is exactly why LFR is so bad. No one bothers to do the prep work anymore and the people who know the tactics are tired of explaining things to people who just want someone to carry them to easy loot.

LFR fights have 1-2 important mechanics that can wipe you if ignored. Nobody bothers to look those up, so wipes happen. Instead of realizing how the wipes are the fault of the lazyness of the people in the group, they shout how LFR is so bad, it must be made easier! (not you, but I have seen many many threads for that).