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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Alliance Why wasn't the Void Elves held accountable for necromancy?

    (disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

    I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

    Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    (disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

    I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

    Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?
    Like legit I thought it was more puppetry than necromancy; still morally objectionable in terms of desecration, but more of a weekend at Bernie's sort of thing.

    But also kinda hard to get even to scandalized with necromancy when both factions use Death Knights, so there's a lot of "we pretend to not to see it" going around either way.

  3. #3
    We can get to them when the Horde is held responsible for multiple acts of genocide.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    (disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

    I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

    Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?
    its simple, if they were horde, only their leader would be blamed, but they are aliance so anything they do is a good thing...
    or if there is anyone to blame its hordes fault, totaly not alliances

  5. #5
    Similair to what Sylvanas is doing with her necromancy you mean?
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  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I mean, you say not to bring up Sylvanas, but... she's done things 10,000 times worse than raising some silly dinosaurs from the dead, and the kirin tor, argent crusade, Cenarion circle... literally didn't care one iota.

    What the void elves have done has to exist within the context of WoW lore, which currently includes Sylvanas basically being given carte blanche by the story staff to just do whatever and have zero of any of the third-party factions who ostensibly drive some hard-line about some type of magic being forbidden or who hold something sacred she attempted to destroy or enslave even raise a singular concern about it.

    Hell, it'd make less story sense for this stuff to be brought up against the void elves specifically when you have sylvanas tooling around with no ramifications for any of it.
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  7. #7
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    I assume, based on nothing at all that it comes down to the source of magic and the mechanics of the reanimation.

    Death magic necromancy, like the Scourge, forces the soul back into the body and forces it to follow the will of the necromancer.

    Void magic however simply makes the body move again without touching the soul.

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  8. #8
    Brewmaster MrTophat's Avatar
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    The same reason why the Alliance using Theramore to funnel troops and supplies into the Barrens was ignored. The same reason why the Alliance gunning down unarmed Orc sailors in Pandaria was glossed over. The Alliance are a lawful good monolith and anything outside that narrow cookie cutter is ignored and never mentioned again. The Horde are the chaotic evil monsters to play foil to the Alliance, but Blizzard can't kill off 50% of the player base so all its sins as passed on to whatever leadership is in charge at the time. Rinse repeat. Every time Blizzard has a chance to give the Alliance some backbone they either flinch or ignore it later, and every chance Blizzard has to stick it to the Horde for their crimes they just shrug and say 'and then everyone was very sorry' and change the station to whatever cartoon cosmic threat is trying to eat us now.

    In short? Bad writing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    (disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

    I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

    Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?
    Necromany by itself is no longer such a big issue after it was used to defeat the Lich King. Hence why even Death Knights these days are honored champions when in the past they were reviled and had rotten vegetable thrown at them.

    Before the Death Knights there were simple none that used it for a good cause and arguably the Ebon Blade is still the only place where Necromancers with positive attitudes gather. Before them we only ever had Kel'thuzad and the Cult of the Damned and before them Gul'dan and his first generation Death Knights and Shadow Council who had nothing but bad intentions. The Forsaken also did not exactly help this imagine by blighting every piece of land they could get their hands on.

    By now, Necromancy, just like the demonic Fel energy or the all-consuming Void power is something that is accepted if it is controlled and turned against enemies. Varian even had his own court Warlock in case he needed demonic help and Anduin himself has used Void powers a few times, when necessary.

    What is not acceptable of course is first murdering your own people with a plague and then raising the bodies to fight, but a long dead dinosaur to use it against a camp of enemies? Doubt anyone will even blink. It wasn't even a Loa like Rezan.

    Also as someone pointed out I don't think this fully qualifies as Necromancy. It's more that they summoned a void creature that used the bones of the dino as a medium.

  10. #10
    They didn't do anything wrong, so nothing to hold them accountable for. Void Elf Pet Sematary is kind of far down the list of horrible things the denizens of Azeroth have to care about.

  11. #11
    wait void elfs got lore, where can i find this?

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Also as someone pointed out I don't think this fully qualifies as Necromancy. It's more that they summoned a void creature that used the bones of the dino as a medium.
    Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

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  13. #13
    Well, their leader is a cold-blooded sadist who tortures innocent people, cause "the end justifies the means", and Anduin doesn't mind her cruel methods because she is a "living legend" of the Alliance. Same goes with her people, I guess. Besides they are raising up dinos and not people, so who cares? This is the same as if they raised up someone's pet. Omg, how awful.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTophat View Post
    The same reason why the Alliance using Theramore to funnel troops and supplies into the Barrens was ignored. The same reason why the Alliance gunning down unarmed Orc sailors in Pandaria was glossed over. The Alliance are a lawful good monolith and anything outside that narrow cookie cutter is ignored and never mentioned again. The Horde are the chaotic evil monsters to play foil to the Alliance, but Blizzard can't kill off 50% of the player base so all its sins as passed on to whatever leadership is in charge at the time. Rinse repeat. Every time Blizzard has a chance to give the Alliance some backbone they either flinch or ignore it later, and every chance Blizzard has to stick it to the Horde for their crimes they just shrug and say 'and then everyone was very sorry' and change the station to whatever cartoon cosmic threat is trying to eat us now.

    In short? Bad writing.
    Well...

    Theramore got bombed, so I guess it was not overlooked in the end. When Alliance gunned unarmed orcs in Pandaria, they were under sha influence, so we can discuss if they were actually responsible for their action. Agree with the rest of your post.

  15. #15
    As people commented above, Void-based Necromancy and Death-based Necromancy are two separate things.

    Death-based literally lashes the soul of the deceased to the body, reanimating it using the magic of said soul.

    Void-based takes a creature of the Void and attaches it to the body. Less horrifying unlife, more puppeteering.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Theramore got bombed, so I guess it was not overlooked in the end.
    Narative painted it as atrocity, not retribution.

  17. #17
    They are not undead, they are merely puppets animated by the Void. They did not literally pull the soul of the animal wretch from the Shadowlands and put it back into its decrepit body, they simply animated those bones with the insidious energy of the Void.

    It's war. Corpses will be desecrated, horrors will be committed. If you don't have the stomach for it, don't participate in one. They weren't even people, they were animals, who cares.

    Also, Anduin vouches for the Ren'dorei and is in very good terms with their leader Alleria, and even condones her Void activities. That's right, the supreme leader of the Alliance protects them. No one can touch them, and certainly not the paltry wizards of the Kirin Tor or the Sunreavers.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    wait void elfs got lore, where can i find this?
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  19. #19
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    As others have mentioned, we're talking two ethically-dubious and highly immoral, but distinct, methods of reanimation here.

    Necromancy involves imperfectly reattaching a soul to a body, typically its own, and oftentimes involves forcibly controlling its ability to think and self-determine so it can be used as a mindless puppet.

    What the void elves did was more like letting a void creature wear the body as a skinsuit a la Buffalo Bill. Still a really shitty move to pull, but it's overlooked because the creature's soul is left unmolested in this scenario, just the physical leftovers. Again, desecrating a corpse, still shitty, but a lot less shitty than ripping someone's soul out of the afterlife, not even bothering to reattach it properly, and brainwashing them into mindless servitude.

    If we wanna get in on this we need to have a long discussion about why the Ebon Blade are still tolerated considering "doing shitty things for a good cause" has been their modus operandi from the second they broke free of the Lich King at Light's Hope.
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  20. #20
    Because witers are retarded and nothing make sense in wow.
    But heh... we are also good friends with Bolvar, and Odyn. And alliance use spirits of their dead in warfronts. So necromancy is bad when it's the horde.

    Like the void. Using void as alliance is good. Using void as horde is bad.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2020-10-20 at 08:43 AM.

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