Why is a low level doing decent damage an issue in PVE content? They are not your enemies, the AI controlled monsters are. You are on a team with the other players, and you should expect them to be able to contribute. Some people want to bitch about everything.
We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
Let us play video games and be happy.
Way to miss the point. The original post isn't even saying that scaling shouldn't be in the game at all. It's just saying that it's flimsily implemented. The idea that you get relatively weaker when you level up should never make it into any RPG. It's completely counterintuitive and undermines the feeling of meaningful character progression. Defending this on the basis that "it's just leveling" is completely and utterly ridiculous.
Holy fuck this is dishonest. OP clearly described the issue in a way that makes it abundantly clear that he's talking about relative power because that's the only thing that matters in a scenario where scaling systems are in place. It doesn't matter that your battle text tells you that you just crit that NPC for 10k damage on your level 40 character if it's only 1% of the NPC's hp whereas a level 10 character who uses the same spell deals 2% max hp with 50 damage.
This literally makes the level 40 character less powerful in that dungeon.
The issue here is obviously that the scaling systems don't function properly as they place a disproportionate disadvantage on higher level characters if they want to reach the same performance as low level characters when it should be the other way around. Why anyone would even defend this kind of lazy bullshit is beyond me.
Great point.
Why not scale everyone to the exact same power level until they hit max level? We're all working together after all.
Blizz has always been terrible about balance. At very low levels, your toons only have a few abilities, so Blizz makes them hit like a truck.
I agree it's kind of frustrating leveling and having to do substantially more work to achieve subpar results, but Blizz really doesn't care that much about the leveling process. They only care about end game. If that bothers you...well, you are playing the wrong MMO.
OP only cited Headless Horseman as an example and that is over in about 2 minutes tops. As others have said, if you are leveling in regular dungeons, 50s typically hard carry. My tank was carrying dps in dungeons the other night helping friends level alts. So likely this is not a truly broken scaling, but instead the early levels only having like one or two spells at the fingertips, and thus scaling is working overtime by boosting the only things available to the character to make sure they stay semi-relevant.
We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
Let us play video games and be happy.
Really? So he compared class, gear quality, player ability and came up to a conclusion based on analyzing the data? Where was that in the post? I saw an anecdote and a conclusion "herpy derpy you got worsey"...
Even if the scaling isn't 100% perfect across all item/level thresholds most players don't give a !@#$. You're playing content that literally doesn't matter...
I would hope so, could you imagine being a warrior with only bloodthirst and it does the same dmg as the warrior with blood thurst, rampage, etc etc.
That arcane mage with only arcane blast runs out of MP SUPER fast because they don't have clearcasting procs and arcane missles. So yes its amazing on the HH boss but in dungeons your dmg balances because of the lack of other tools. Now imagine having a lvl 50 Arcane mage and a lvl 10 arcane mage and their arcane blast does the same dmg....youd want to kick the lvl 10 for slowing you down because he basically has a incomplete kit.
Now imagine the healer with only 1 type of heal healing for the same as the healer with 10 cooldowns and such...
Can a level 10 go into a lvl 53 raid?
Also to be more direct to the scaling.
When you are level 10 and you have one ability, all your doing is spamming that 1 ability. That's 100% of your damage potential. Scaling that 100% damage of your potential into a lvl 50 character means you are doing 100% lvl 50 character potential.
Lvl 50s also have multiple other factors working against them, different secondary scaling, ilvl, multiple abilities that have to be used correctly, etc... So while on your scale in outdated content you are capable of topping the meter, the reality is you aren't in current content and overall it means very little. You aren't as powerful as a lvl50 you are simply maximizing your abilities of your level and that proficiency is being scaled to 50. I also doubt that it's showing the same to the 50s, you may be at the top of the meter, but I doubt your DPS is really that high compared to an actual functional player using their pre-patch skills, talents, etc... to maximum efficiency.
Last edited by StillMcfuu; 2020-10-21 at 06:09 PM.
Staying semi-relevant =/= doing more damage than level 50 characters.
Since you were talking about "analyzing the data" surely you have some rocksolid statistic on hand that proves your claim about "most players not giving a shit".
Nice meme, my dude.
Well I agree OP. You are so OP until like level 35-40. Then it slows down. I figure this was the reason why Skyreach was such a nightmare to pug for me and 2 friends, but the other 5 man we did earlier was not nearly as hard. That skyreach instance could also be highly over-tuned which I think is the case for WOD 5 mans, but it feelt like doing a +15 mythic...at least an easy one like freehold. I was tanking with full bis heirlooms enchanted.
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO
So, according to this thread, percentage of overall damage is a better measurement of performance than actual damage/DPS?
What?
The?
What?
Who gives a flying crap that a level 10, when fighting a mob scaled down to level 10, does a % of damage.
What's the actual damage numbers? What's the actual DPS?
No need to answer that, I can answer for you: It's much, much lower than a level 50's DPS, even if they just afk auto-attack.
You don't "get weaker" as you level.
Your frostbolt doesn't go from doing 60 damage at level 10 to doing 50 damage at level 15.
That's not how this works... that's not how any of this works.
How about the way it used to be? When the game was at its peak.
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1. I haven't said that
2. The problem isn't anyone scaling to anyone else, the problem is scaling in general. The problem is that if a level 10 is in a group with a level 50, for some reason the level 10, in some cases, has it a lot easier doing insane amounts of damage. This entire thing is completely backwards.
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But the actual damage is also higher for the level 10 than it is for the level 50.
This is the way it is. Level 10 is in a group with level 50.
The level 10 sees himself doing 100 dps and sees the level 50 do 30 dps. Just as an example. The level 10 player sees his numbers and the numbers for the other players are scaled down to match his numbers.
Level 10 = 100 dps
Levell 50 = 30 dps
Now the level 50 player sees different numbers. He sees his real numbers, and the level 10 numbers are scaled up to match his numbers.
So what he sees is
Level 10 = 10000 dps
Level 50 = 3000 dps
In both cases, the level 10 is way ahead in terms of numbers.
There are several things wrong with this. But the main thing is that a level 10 player, especially when he has less skills available to do his job, should never be stronger than a level 50 player.
The level 10 player isn't doing more damage because he is more skilled. He doesn't make up for the difference in level with more skill. He does more damage because he is level 10. Because the scaling works that way.
I can confirm the observations from OP in leveling dungeons as well. In fact, I talked to a group of level 10 boosters that sell boost to level higher level characters through classic dungeons. They lock their level to 10, then you get carried through the dungeon. I was on my level 48 warlock and the two level 10s were both doing 3-4k DPS each, easily outdpsing everyone. I have leveled 1-50 Warlock, 30-50 Paladin and 40-50 druid. The lower level characters are basically always #1 DPS if they know what they are doing (which is not alot since you have 2-3 buttons to press). If the entire group is 10-15ish then it seems to scale normally. The problem is when you pair level 10s with 40+ characters, the game scales in favor of the low levels and gives absurd DPS.
I know how it was before scaling came to the game and it was fine. You were able to find groups. In fact I don't like the fact the leveling via dungeons is so fast. It's often essentially the fastest way to do it, at least if you get lucky with groups and dungeons, so much so that it has drained the fun out of questing for me. If dungeon queues took an hour, then that means I could fill in that time with questing. And to be honest, I think I'd prefer that.
I also know what it was before dungeonfinder came to the game and it was fine too. Dungeons were actually something special. Something you didn't just chainrun. They were the culmination of the story in a zone and you did them until you had all the quests done or outleveled them. And even heroic dungeons weren't something you'd chainrun, because you had an ID and it took a while to find people. Even Wrath dungeons in the beginning took a while to clear.
Thank you. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here.
I assume it has something to do with certain abilties being more powerful at lower levels to make it easier for low level players. Like heals at low levels often heal you completely full. My level 1 shaman was one-hitting things with lightning bolt. You grow in level and it becomes less powerful. I think we all have seen that when leveling up characters. It's like mana and health regeneration being faster at lower levels.