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  1. #1

    What's with the PvP scene nowdays?

    As the title suggests i'm wondering about who's participating in PvP nowdays, so far my experience has been:

    Try BGs both as Horde and Alliance i swear i must have below 20% winrate in over 30 matches, we're getting stomped by premades no matter when or what i play, i'm totally willing to consider that i might be teribad but even if i was AFK (i'm not) i should normally be over 40% winrate all things equall

    i try some skirmishes i'm paired with pretty much normal people playing all sorts of specs (quite often the not so viable in arena, sometimes even tanks!) and i always seem to be facing highly coordinated meta comps like RPM or caster cleaves by people that chain CC, coordinate burst, use defensives, dispels, los, with decent positioning etc

    ranked arena is just as bad as skirmishes if not worse and again let's assume i'm noob, shouldn't i be facing other noobs?... there was a time when having addons was 'pro' now even the low ratings seem to be filled with boosters, win traders, alts of high rated people etc...

    surprisingly enough RBGS seem easier to win than normal BGs, like none cares and everyone is in just for the cap... by far the easiet part of PvP


    so wtf happened here? is there any meaningful way to approach PvP nowdays for returning players>

  2. #2
    Suppose people are just trying out the different classes that they want now, farm kills, get familiar with the SL changes and don't really bother winning OR losing

  3. #3
    There are very few people left playing WoW PvP that havent played for years. Theres not exactly an influx of new blood rolling in like other E-sports titles. Also, is a very high barrier to entry for WoW PvP, meaning its mostly the same people who have been playing arena for 10 years(Montly sub, leveling, game cost, experience, etc). You might have some PvE players decide to move into PvP, but thats about it.

    Meaning, the average skill level in WoW PvP is pretty damn high, all things considering. So yea, even your rando's in low rated arenas and in BGs can chain CC's, play meta comps, and what not. The community, IMO, just isnt there anymore, and its nothing but the die-hard WoW PvP fans left.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    As the title suggests i'm wondering about who's participating in PvP nowdays, so far my experience has been:

    Try BGs both as Horde and Alliance i swear i must have below 20% winrate in over 30 matches, we're getting stomped by premades no matter when or what i play, i'm totally willing to consider that i might be teribad but even if i was AFK (i'm not) i should normally be over 40% winrate all things equall

    i try some skirmishes i'm paired with pretty much normal people playing all sorts of specs (quite often the not so viable in arena, sometimes even tanks!) and i always seem to be facing highly coordinated meta comps like RPM or caster cleaves by people that chain CC, coordinate burst, use defensives, dispels, los, with decent positioning etc

    ranked arena is just as bad as skirmishes if not worse and again let's assume i'm noob, shouldn't i be facing other noobs?... there was a time when having addons was 'pro' now even the low ratings seem to be filled with boosters, win traders, alts of high rated people etc...

    surprisingly enough RBGS seem easier to win than normal BGs, like none cares and everyone is in just for the cap... by far the easiet part of PvP


    so wtf happened here? is there any meaningful way to approach PvP nowdays for returning players>
    It's easy, but perhaps not obvious: They locked good rewards from common pvp behind all manner of bullshit to the point where world quests often give downright superior gear.

    So yeah, effectively there is zero reward incentive for anyone not roflstomping.

    Add to that that the nature of pvp is such that you need a loser for every winner and the issue becomes even more clear: easier, faster methods of winning gear that you basically cannot lose or pvp where every winner requires a loser?

    Their poor reward design bleeds it dry, as does the fact that frequently the best pvp gear comes from pve.

    Honestly if i didn't know better i'd think they're intentionally bleeding pvp dry.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Honestly if i didn't know better i'd think they're intentionally bleeding pvp dry.
    It's literally getting overhauled with Shadowlands but yeah they're intentionally destroying half of their gameplay options

    I really want to know what goes through some poster's minds before they say things like that lol

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    It's literally getting overhauled with Shadowlands but yeah they're intentionally destroying half of their gameplay options

    I really want to know what goes through some poster's minds before they say things like that lol
    Perhaps past tense would be better then, but let's not pretend it hasn't been going for the past two expansions. >.>

    Edit: come think of it "they're" is ambiguous anyway, it can already be both past and present tense, heh. Ah English, bastard of a thousand fathers.
    Last edited by loras; 2020-10-25 at 02:46 PM.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  7. #7
    Pretty much unplayable atm. Whatever values gear gives is more horribly imbalanced now then it has been
    in quite a long time.

    So not worth doing pvp atm is what I'm saying.

  8. #8
    Yeah PvP is really a mess right now

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    As the title suggests i'm wondering about who's participating in PvP nowdays, so far my experience has been:

    Try BGs both as Horde and Alliance i swear i must have below 20% winrate in over 30 matches, we're getting stomped by premades no matter when or what i play, i'm totally willing to consider that i might be teribad but even if i was AFK (i'm not) i should normally be over 40% winrate all things equall

    i try some skirmishes i'm paired with pretty much normal people playing all sorts of specs (quite often the not so viable in arena, sometimes even tanks!) and i always seem to be facing highly coordinated meta comps like RPM or caster cleaves by people that chain CC, coordinate burst, use defensives, dispels, los, with decent positioning etc

    ranked arena is just as bad as skirmishes if not worse and again let's assume i'm noob, shouldn't i be facing other noobs?... there was a time when having addons was 'pro' now even the low ratings seem to be filled with boosters, win traders, alts of high rated people etc...

    surprisingly enough RBGS seem easier to win than normal BGs, like none cares and everyone is in just for the cap... by far the easiet part of PvP


    so wtf happened here? is there any meaningful way to approach PvP nowdays for returning players>


    the bottom fell out for variety of reasons, cheating not handled in an appropriate time, horrible balancing, lack of content and general lack of care from blizzard.

  10. #10
    If by "nowadays" you mean prepatch, then I think it's as bad as it's ever been in a prepatch.

    Through the course of the last 2 expansions, my opinion is that the barrier to entry is incredibly high. You can't even just be decent at PvP (decent is not synonymous with amazing) and gear up - you have to PvE. Trinket slots alone have been PvE-favored for at least 2 expansions, probably longer.

    All that to say that a mix of balance issues and being forced to PvE is a great way to funnel players into PvP. It's obviously not been a primary focus for them, and every end-of-expansion sees the same "bUt ThEy'Re mAkInG cHanGeS nExT xPaC" mantra, even though the blatant, underlying issues haven't been resolved. See: PvE trinkets on SL Beta.

  11. #11
    I miss the days were you got ok gear from BGs and the best in arena, and that was that.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    As the title suggests i'm wondering about who's participating in PvP nowdays, so far my experience has been:

    Try BGs both as Horde and Alliance i swear i must have below 20% winrate in over 30 matches, we're getting stomped by premades no matter when or what i play, i'm totally willing to consider that i might be teribad but even if i was AFK (i'm not) i should normally be over 40% winrate all things equall

    i try some skirmishes i'm paired with pretty much normal people playing all sorts of specs (quite often the not so viable in arena, sometimes even tanks!) and i always seem to be facing highly coordinated meta comps like RPM or caster cleaves by people that chain CC, coordinate burst, use defensives, dispels, los, with decent positioning etc

    ranked arena is just as bad as skirmishes if not worse and again let's assume i'm noob, shouldn't i be facing other noobs?... there was a time when having addons was 'pro' now even the low ratings seem to be filled with boosters, win traders, alts of high rated people etc...

    surprisingly enough RBGS seem easier to win than normal BGs, like none cares and everyone is in just for the cap... by far the easiet part of PvP


    so wtf happened here? is there any meaningful way to approach PvP nowdays for returning players>
    I'm assuming you're talking about current it wasn't super clear in your post.

    If that's the case you're kind of dealing with a time where we're in a prepatch post season which has people testing out comps in things like Skirmishes because while there's 'rated' arena it doesn't actually do much of anything for you at present date. Same for Random BGs combined with the fact that there's a lot of absolutely broken classes in this prepatch that causes matches to go sideways, that and class changes that haven't been fully picked up by players, long/short - luck of the draw on team comps.

    Prepatch also brought as decent number of folks rerolling to other classes in prep for Shadowlands - which on paper sounds fine except that the MMR system is absolutely broken. Players with no existing MMR are forever stuck in placement matches, which are matches that don't factor in CR, and MMR is never set. So you'll get players that are pros on new characters playing with other pros that are steam rolling players in the 1500 bracket because one of the members is forever stuck in placement matches. They hate it, you hate it - no one really wins.

    Gear matters a ton even now in pre-patch, and there's probably a small amount of "get good" required here (not trying to offend here).

  13. #13
    random bgs are fine (try to lead the bg if you lose too much or play during school hours), arenas are fine even though it's pre patch so nothing balanced, rbgs are almost fine, they just need to balance factions, since the ally rbg bracket is dead
    maybe they could BOOST the alliance rewards big time for all content, it's how dead alliance is for real content

    they could also add queues option matching mmr for rated rbg/rated 3s like for skirmish, it would also boost player participation, just have tick boxes of what specs you want to play with prio on the menu or something like this
    Last edited by Cæli; 2020-10-31 at 03:57 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    It's literally getting overhauled with Shadowlands but yeah they're intentionally destroying half of their gameplay options

    I really want to know what goes through some poster's minds before they say things like that lol
    Yeah... Are you aware of the details of this Shadowlands Overhaul?

    Currently in Shadowlands to obtain a full set of Honor Gear fully upgraded it’s going to take over 380 Battlegrounds to farm the honor at a (wishful) 50% win rate. Do you have any idea how fucking long that would take for anyone batshit crazy enough to even bother trying to do that? The PVP Vendor is a myth.

    Oh but the gear must be great, right?? No, once FULLY upgraded it’s actually equivalent to Mythic +6.

    But near 400 BGs can be farmed in a couple of weeks so it might be faster than PVE Gearing? No it’s actually time-gated by 7 weeks before you can upgrade your base PvP gear (which is worse than level 60 dungeons to begin with).

    “I really want to know what goes through some poster’s minds before they say things like that lol” - Enlighten us what was going through your mind before you wrote your pish.

    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I miss the days were you got ok gear from BGs and the best in arena, and that was that.
    Word.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    It's easy, but perhaps not obvious: They locked good rewards from common pvp behind all manner of bullshit to the point where world quests often give downright superior gear.

    So yeah, effectively there is zero reward incentive for anyone not roflstomping.

    Add to that that the nature of pvp is such that you need a loser for every winner and the issue becomes even more clear: easier, faster methods of winning gear that you basically cannot lose or pvp where every winner requires a loser?

    Their poor reward design bleeds it dry, as does the fact that frequently the best pvp gear comes from pve.

    Honestly if i didn't know better i'd think they're intentionally bleeding pvp dry.
    How are they bleeding pvp dry?they have done more pvp related stuff in the last 2 expansions and continue in sl than they have since tbc added arenas....no,pvp is dry because they removed pvp gear,there is literaly no insentive for most players to do it when you get the same gear,better and easier from pve

    I loved pvp in wrath and cata,the different gear and sets were awsome,i liked being able to combine my pve gear and pvp gear,it was nice when doing endgame pve actualy gave u an extra edge in pvp,now the gear is the same,looks the same,and versatility isnt resilience,i quit in mop and even if pvp resilience still existed i recal still being able to completly outshine pvp geared people with pve gear in outdoors,dont remember exactly if it was because it only worked in bg's and arenas?i know they changed this every expansion so its confusing,later they made the pvp gear activate in combat...then templates etc,atleast its looking better in sl...and if only they added res back

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    How are they bleeding pvp dry?they have done more pvp related stuff in the last 2 expansions and continue in sl than they have since tbc added arenas....no,pvp is dry because they removed pvp gear,there is literaly no insentive for most players to do it when you get the same gear,better and easier from pve

    I loved pvp in wrath and cata,the different gear and sets were awsome,i liked being able to combine my pve gear and pvp gear,it was nice when doing endgame pve actualy gave u an extra edge in pvp,now the gear is the same,looks the same,and versatility isnt resilience,i quit in mop and even if pvp resilience still existed i recal still being able to completly outshine pvp geared people with pve gear in outdoors,dont remember exactly if it was because it only worked in bg's and arenas?i know they changed this every expansion so its confusing,later they made the pvp gear activate in combat...then templates etc,atleast its looking better in sl...and if only they added res back
    I still dont understand why they cant just make pvp gear. Unique pvp gear with atleast 1 pvp stat. It would give us two paths to follow, pvp & pve.

    I liked back in the day going into bgs, farming honor/conquest and obtain better and better gear. slowly but steady you would feel stronger as you obtained gear.

    It would probably also make more people play each character more. Feel done with pve? Dip into pvp.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I still dont understand why they cant just make pvp gear. Unique pvp gear with atleast 1 pvp stat. It would give us two paths to follow, pvp & pve.

    I liked back in the day going into bgs, farming honor/conquest and obtain better and better gear. slowly but steady you would feel stronger as you obtained gear.

    It would probably also make more people play each character more. Feel done with pve? Dip into pvp.
    They basicaly did this thinking that it would be an easier barrier to entry if the gear was the same,and wile that is true...it created another problem,it made people not want to actualy pvp in the first place anymore lol,its some parody levels stuff here,they added world pvp insentives but people mostly see it as chores,like warmode wile being very good in concept,its implemented poorly with the pve insentives

    then we come to another issue in bfa,where ironicaly the barrier to entry is now WORSE THAN EVER,because the gear you need to be competivie is very high,its why they made pvp scaling,because a fresh 120 vs a mythic nyalotha lvl player was like the difference from a vanila 60 to a cataclysm 85 player,the scaling is astronomical(thankfuly sl is adressing it somewhat by lowering the ilvl scaling)

    so basicaly now...instead of them making you farm some bgs for 2 days to get honor pvp set and you could compete vs arena geared players( it worked in the past,in lk on my relentles alts i could still beat wrathful players)

    now you need to raid mythic or farm m+ for weeks to even compete in high end arenas,because you cant get good gear in pvp to compete with the geared people because you get low ilvl rewards because your mmr stays low because you can never get the gear to win those games by solely doing pvp....

    its tragic

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    They basicaly did this thinking that it would be an easier barrier to entry if the gear was the same,and wile that is true...it created another problem,it made people not want to actualy pvp in the first place anymore lol,its some parody levels stuff here,they added world pvp insentives but people mostly see it as chores,like warmode wile being very good in concept,its implemented poorly with the pve insentives

    then we come to another issue in bfa,where ironicaly the barrier to entry is now WORSE THAN EVER,because the gear you need to be competivie is very high,its why they made pvp scaling,because a fresh 120 vs a mythic nyalotha lvl player was like the difference from a vanila 60 to a cataclysm 85 player,the scaling is astronomical(thankfuly sl is adressing it somewhat by lowering the ilvl scaling)

    so basicaly now...instead of them making you farm some bgs for 2 days to get honor pvp set and you could compete vs arena geared players( it worked in the past,in lk on my relentles alts i could still beat wrathful players)

    now you need to raid mythic or farm m+ for weeks to even compete in high end arenas,because you cant get good gear in pvp to compete with the geared people because you get low ilvl rewards because your mmr stays low because you can never get the gear to win those games by solely doing pvp....

    its tragic
    Yeah this sums it up perfectly.

    I dont understand why they cant just have pvp gear/sets/stats as a separate/alternative way of gearing in the game. A way of getting strong in pvp, without having to do pve content alot.

    When they did so pvp gear didnt matter and everyone were "the same" in pvp, the interests quickly fades off. In a game like wow, having something to work towards is important. Sure it sucks in the beginning but it feels great gearing up and feel that your character gets stronger and stronger.

    They made pvp available for everyone, without the need of doing anything. It backfired.

  19. #19
    Prepatch shenanigans make it a weird time regardless, but a lot of the problems you mentioned are due to blizzard's insistence on keeping PvE gear strongest in PvP.

    As things stand, you might be facing pvp scrubs who dont know how to fight, but who can clear 10+ mythic or higher and thus have some of the highest gear aviailable. Pro pvpers are forced to do the same, and returning players who aren't aware of this are hugely behind in terms of sheer stats.

    Yes, it's a shit system, one which SL doesn't seem to correct much. I hope they will wake up to it sooner rather than years away.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Yeah this sums it up perfectly.

    I dont understand why they cant just have pvp gear/sets/stats as a separate/alternative way of gearing in the game. A way of getting strong in pvp, without having to do pve content alot.

    When they did so pvp gear didnt matter and everyone were "the same" in pvp, the interests quickly fades off. In a game like wow, having something to work towards is important. Sure it sucks in the beginning but it feels great gearing up and feel that your character gets stronger and stronger.

    They made pvp available for everyone, without the need of doing anything. It backfired.
    It sucks way more today for pvp only people,in wrath you dinged 80,you buy the crafted pvp gear,and depending on your own personal time you spend a few days in bg's getting the previous seasons gear and you were good to go to a fair ammount of rating,and depending on how good you were the arena points would come faster

    also wile i didnt pvp in bfa,i have seen videos,from the looks of it,the ability to outplay people has begome very minimal,you were just playing corruption wackamole,sure wrath also had insane bursts with double human casters and shadowmourn,but in wrath i distinctly remember being able to go up against wrathful players in fairly high rating 2.3k in 3's,on my alt warrior,one of my best memories was beating a shadowmourn warrior with my warrior simply because my partners were better than his,and the way overpower worked vs casters,they not only had to fake cast interupts,but also try to avoid the overpower that reduced their dmg by 50%

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