When they made Awakened did they consider the tanks at all?

[majinbebi]

Awakened was the best seasonal affix in addition to reaping. You didn't need a rogue and could skip. The only downside is that it required you to know what you're doing and like 5 minutes of planning beforehand.

The new Shadowlands season 1 affix is going to wreck you too if you have no idea what you're doing.

[Lucetia]

I didn't do the prideful season when it was up, too lazy, but I did S4 constantly and got KSM. As a tank I loved the Awakened affix. It made skipping certain packs of trash doable without hindering the group or needing a rogue. It allowed for variances in routes, etc. Overall I'll miss awakened once the new season comes and wish it was a permanent one. For me it was just fun over all. I remember sitting there before mine and a few friends keys planning routes and such beforehand with MDT. Later on I became lazy on certain weeks I didn't have a route and just grabbed Dratnos' and ran with that.

[erifwodahs]

If you're implying that requires anything more than simply knowing the affixes and stealing a quick peek at the Adventure Guide or doing a single Mythic run of any level, I'm afraid you're mistaken.

I am not.
Good healer knows my CDs and does not waste his CDs when I still have mine up. Good healer will never waste big healing CD - he would rather just ask "pull big".
And adventure guide does not let you know when there is real danger during boss fight on high key

[Accendor]

So I actually had the same issue. The learning curve for the new affix as a casual tank felt really steep to me compared to every other affix.
However, I still think it was the best affix we had this expansion because of how it solved the trash skip issues and made more group setups viable than ever before.
I personally stopped tanking alltogether, but I see the positives.

[Eli85]

I am not.
Good healer knows my CDs and does not waste his CDs when I still have mine up. Good healer will never waste big healing CD - he would rather just ask "pull big".
And adventure guide does not let you know when there is real danger during boss fight on high key

You're over complicating the healer role, at least as far as most healers are concerned, even in high keys. Are there some healers who do as you say? Sure, I'll give you that, but for the most part, healers just react to the outgoing damage profile as it is happening. We do make note of trash packs that have higher outgoing damage profiles, but you can flawlessly do high keys by just reacting and understanding the week's affixes.

[Bootynuzzler]

Good healer knows my CDs and does not waste his CDs when I still have mine up. Good healer will never waste big healing CD - he would rather just ask "pull big".

You're not wrong.

And adventure guide does not let you know when there is real danger during boss fight on high key

It does, actually. I'm sure you know and are just forgetting that the only differences between an m0 and a high key are the affixes plus the scaled increase in health pools and damage.

[DazManianDevil]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Tank been the least played role since I dunno, Vanilla Beta?
Even at the height of LFD in Wrath, with arguably the easiest dungeons that didn't even encourage interrupts, CC or have optional routes, Tanks were still rare and shit on by DPS and Healers (personal experience anyway)

While I haven't tanked above a 15 in a while, I don't see the "strain" put on tanks, this season or previous ones. I hated the 8.2 affix as it was super punishing of small mistakes, Awakened was a lot of fun.

If you're the kind of player who says "Hey, I'm gonna jump into M+ in the middle of a season, and go right into +10s/higher and expect people I'm PuGing to accept me and play at my pace" at LEAST have the decency to say something.
I'm perfectly happy to walk a tank through an M+ route, even typing it. Just don't be that asshole who face pulls 2-3 packs, wipes us and then say you're new to the route and that all PuGs are toxic.

A lot of us are toxic to be fair, just be open about your situation.
"New to tanking, my key. +10, going for completion, chill attitude"
I join these keys far more often than "+19 ML, Big Dicks only or Kick!"

My 2cents. /cheers

[erifwodahs]

You're over complicating the healer role, at least as far as most healers are concerned, even in high keys. Are there some healers who do as you say? Sure, I'll give you that, but for the most part, healers just react to the outgoing damage profile as it is happening. We do make note of trash packs that have higher outgoing damage profiles, but you can flawlessly do high keys by just reacting and understanding the week's affixes.

I just don't think that good healer is easier than a good tank. I play duo with my healer and it's so much better with a known healer. Learning the routes and how to do it is way easier then learning the gimmics.

[epigramx]

The only tanks here that find what I said weak are obviously people that tank those 5mans for many months, so thinking of Awakened can be a bit easier for them because they already know the trash perfectly so making those routes is a minor or at least modest elevation of their knowledge of the 5man.

Now think of someone that started tanking - hell started the EXPANSION because I wait for SL - after 8.3 and you understand this is an absolute hellish mess for a tank (I mean sure I have already done a 16+++ and this hell of an Awakened that is Junkard at a failed 12 but it's not easy).

[JohnyCge]

Awakened was amazing affix for tanks that played through whole expansion. It allowed to fix shitty mdi tactics that became meta, that were very hard to implement for an average player or required specific comp. For let's say, motherlode, it allowed to make very different routes, tactics, to see places of dungeon that you wouldn't visit otherwise.

For tank that joined or came back somewhere in 8.3 this affix was a pure nightmare. Unless route is discussed beforehand, ppl were pulling extra packs, placed portals in wrong positions, etc. Difficulty increase from 9 to 10 was very harsh and taxing for tank players. As tank who saw 3 out of 4 affixes, this one by far was most hard. Even more, as mdi progressed some routes changed and some pugs required you to play these routes. Why? Just because.

Honesty this affix was perfect example of double sided coin. Generally, I don't like this affix. It would have been much more better affix if it was placed as +2 or +7 affix. This way you can learn affix with much more less taxing environment. The way it stayed in 8.3 didn't allowed any trial and error, because any +10 run is perceived as hard content by average community, and you are required to be "not bad". But, you happen to find friendly community that will bear with you learning routes, it suddenly becomes very fun affix.

[Relapses]

I see your point OP, with how minmaxxy that stuff is it would grace them to just implement a tank-routing-guide in the dungeon journal or as optional UI element.
As right now there is pretty much only one way to deal with this properly and that is through addons.

Honestly they should've made things like DBM basically (optionally) baseline for a long time now, it's just such a huge difference in how easy shit becomes.

Agreed. Hopefully Blizzard will simplify M+ so that all you need to do is insert the key and the game provides with the loot right afterward. Personally, I think it's a complete outrage that Blizzard has the audacity to ask me to exercise any brain power when I play this game.

[erifwodahs]

The only tanks here that find what I said weak are obviously people that tank those 5mans for many months, so thinking of Awakened can be a bit easier for them because they already know the trash perfectly so making those routes is a minor or at least modest elevation of their knowledge of the 5man.

Now think of someone that started tanking - hell started the EXPANSION because I wait for SL - after 8.3 and you understand this is an absolute hellish mess for a tank (I mean sure I have already done a 16+++ and this hell of an Awakened that is Junkard at a failed 12 but it's not easy).

You get insta invites into the dungeons mate, you can't expect that and not know the dungeons. If you choose to go into an awakened dungeon without running several +9s it's like trying to do a HC raid, mid patch without knowing any tactics.
You are a tank mate. There is no game where you would get easy entrance as a tank mid expansion when everyone else already know all the shit.

[Fitsu]

Reading the responses in this thread is a perfect example of why it takes so long to find tanks. Not only has Blizzard made it an extraordinary pain in the ass for them, on top of that they have to deal with people like you who act like - yes - act like elitists and spew toxicity instead of acknowledging the systemic issues with tanking that Blizzard has done nothing over the years to renovate, alleviate, and generally make more accessible to players. Instead of pointing fingers at the OP, how about acknowledging the point of their post which is that ultimately Blizzard is failing the playerbase as a whole by burdening tanks with a workload that no other role has to deal with and yet feels entitled to undeservedly high expectations toward a single player in their group.

It's no wonder most people don't want to do it, and that's why it takes so damn long to find one.

But... It's the tanks job to pull and therefore decide the route? Plenty of people responded with tips like "you can use MDI Tools" etc. there not being elitist. I expect everyone to have an idea of what route to take but the final decision comes down to the main doing the pulls. Just like how it's the healers job to not only heal but know when he can DPS and when to use his CDs or the DPS job to CC, taunt, burst the right targets etc.

Everyone has their job, pulling the right packs is part of the tanks job. If you don't like tanking then don't tank? I don't view there being a problem at all with tanks atm, I love that the role is more than just "guy who take damage" infact way back when the role had little to actually do was a big reason why it was so under-represented. No matter what there'll always be more people that just want to DPS that can't ever be fixed but I think if they strip down the tank role it'll become far less represented than it is now.

[Devilyaki]

Another reason never to get into m+. I love tanking but this meta they added just seems so bs.

[Usynligepind]

Been playing quite a bit on beta and the new Shadowland affix is gonna be instrumental when pushing higher keys. Getting the power boost on a boss to simply just melt it. This is the part of Mythics I find fun. Optimizing runs and finding small advantages.

[Elkfingers]

The only tanks here that find what I said weak are obviously people that tank those 5mans for many months, so thinking of Awakened can be a bit easier for them because they already know the trash perfectly so making those routes is a minor or at least modest elevation of their knowledge of the 5man.

Now think of someone that started tanking - hell started the EXPANSION because I wait for SL - after 8.3 and you understand this is an absolute hellish mess for a tank (I mean sure I have already done a 16+++ and this hell of an Awakened that is Junkard at a failed 12 but it's not easy).

Dude I can smell the copium from here. If you're trying to time M+ then everyone should know the route, including the tank. You're legit complaining because you couldn't be fucked to do your own research. That's entirely on you.

It's really sad that you've gone in, failed to time a key due to your own mistakes, and then come on here looking for validation.

[erifwodahs]

Another reason never to get into m+. I love tanking but this meta they added just seems so bs.

your loss mate.

[kranur]

Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

What are you talking about? For +10 you can just enter the portal, kill the add and exist in the same spot and you can still easily make it (unless bad or undergeared of course)

[Devilyaki]

your loss mate.

Avoiding toxic players and annoying bs doesn’t seem like much of a loss

[erifwodahs]

Avoiding toxic players and annoying bs doesn’t seem like much of a loss

M+ is a great fun for tanking, trust me.
Doing high keys so these is less "me so good, you trash" players in the upper rankings. Not 100% clean, but way better than doing a +16 or so. Most trouble I run is entitled bad players in low keys. There are really cool chill players too, but the "I have done 17 timed, so anyone below that is trash" really get stuck in.