Shadowlands Beta - Build 36401 Spell Changes

[kranur]

I like it better this way, it hits all targets now instead of having a chance of missing your target. Having to back peddle or leaping backwards to hopefully hit your target. Although, I think they could of easily just used the Demon to hit all targets in a line instead of at the end of Fel Rush. Welcomed change regardless.

Deals 4 times less damage tho .. that is a lot. And it was more interesting imo.

[Revamp Man]

how to balance conduit and legendary systems:
1. nerf them

how to make the conduit and legendary system meaningful:
1. nerf them until nobody really cares

[Speedblast]

Didn't they say they changed their mind and would try to make legendaries stronger? Why they keep nerfing them after saying that?

[natham]

how to balance conduit and legendary systems:
1. nerf them

how to make the conduit and legendary system meaningful:
1. nerf them until nobody really cares

They are not nerfing anything because its not live yet. They are balancing, its still beta. If it was live then yeah, its nerf.

[Toybox]

Didn't they say they changed their mind and would try to make legendaries stronger? Why they keep nerfing them after saying that?

Nerf them repeatedly. Buff them once. "Hey look we buffed them. Hype!!!" - is what I kind of expect to happen.

[deenman]

Gotta love the design logic here...classes are as default incredibly incomplete,you only get a ''complete'' picture once you add on the MULTIPLE layers of systems,so the class itself is only like 40% of the end product....and,now that they made a legendery a little to good...their solution to fixing the potential power of the class....is to nerf the default class even more in to the ground so the class is only 20% of the product...

and people still stay subbed,its textbook battered wife syndrome

[Coldkil]

Reverberating Strike Damaging Finishing moves that consume your Animacharged combo point deal damage function as if you consumed 20 combo points. Instant.

Hope it's an error. Also, no amount of raw dps increase is gonna make me like this clunky skill or the Kyrian covenant as a rogue. Fortunately all other skills are basically on par with each other so they just need to nerf this a little bit to put it in place.

[Gurg]

Oke. I tend not to qq or rage. But this is silly.
Doom winds nerf was something kinda expected as its interaction with WF was too good to last.
But nerfing BOTH is just excessive.

They are literally going BACK on their words when they said that they want WF to be more meaningful this time around when they started this rework.
But again they straight lied into our faces when they said "we never said that enhance will get rework in 8.1" going back on their words and that slipped through. So thats nothing new.

Not only that my AoE rotation is completely random, depending almost fully on MW procs and legendary tied to it, not only that majority of our covenant abilities are channeled on melee spec, we will now hit like wet noodles in ST too.

Im actually starting to dread days when beta builds are released.

[Nyel]

Didn't they say they changed their mind and would try to make legendaries stronger? Why they keep nerfing them after saying that?

Because that's their way of approaching things. With enough nerfs everything is so streamlined / homogenized that it doesn't matter anymore. That's how they do it since Legion.

The funny thing is, they left most Covenant skills completely untouched for most classes yet again. Priest Covenant skills? They're all sh*t, but who cares. Paladin? Monk? Covenant skills for Enhancement Shamans? Why bother with them, players will pick the best so we don't have to make sure that all 4 are good or usable.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yeah, sorry to break it to you my guy, but destroying every other class in M+ by simply jumping around and spamming ice lance and frozen orb off CD was broken and needed to be changed. I know, so terrible of Blizzard daring to actually nerf their favorite class when its broken, and a class that has literally never been bad at any point of the game. Not sure why youre surprised.

I knew I should have posted the usual caveat otherwise someone would get triggered; I'm well aware that frost needed a nerf.

[thilicen]

Void torrent change is interesting, wonder if it will be somewhat viable.

[Eurhetemec]

Nerf them repeatedly. Buff them once. "Hey look we buffed them. Hype!!!" - is what I kind of expect to happen.

What you're describing is pretty basic game design, and you're portraying it as some kind of "conspiracy" to trick people into being excited. Like, no. 95% of people who will play SL haven't even been following this stuff.

The game design approach here is:

1) Put stuff in that you think is probably strong initially, see if it is, because it's a lot easier to nerf than buff.

2) Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf until you think it's at or below an appropriate level.

3) If it's at the right level, leave it there, if it's below, bring it up, but you probably only need to buff it once or twice to make it acceptable.

This ain't a conspiracy. This isn't an attempt to generate "hype". This isn't an attempt to "influence" players in any way (because 95% of them are even paying attention). This is just a common and standard way to do game design. Not just even in MMORPGs or something. In all different kinds of games. Hell, not even computer games - I've seen TT RPGs take this approach (D&D 5E pretty much did, for example, back when it was D&D Next, though it was messy as they also fiddled with some design elements at the same time).

[Toybox]

What you're describing is pretty basic game design, and you're portraying it as some kind of "conspiracy" to trick people into being excited. Like, no. 95% of people who will play SL haven't even been following this stuff.

The game design approach here is:

1) Put stuff in that you think is probably strong initially, see if it is, because it's a lot easier to nerf than buff.

2) Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf until you think it's at or below an appropriate level.

3) If it's at the right level, leave it there, if it's below, bring it up, but you probably only need to buff it once or twice to make it acceptable.

This ain't a conspiracy. This isn't an attempt to generate "hype". This isn't an attempt to "influence" players in any way (because 95% of them are even paying attention). This is just a common and standard way to do game design. Not just even in MMORPGs or something. In all different kinds of games. Hell, not even computer games - I've seen TT RPGs take this approach (D&D 5E pretty much did, for example, back when it was D&D Next, though it was messy as they also fiddled with some design elements at the same time).

I see your points, but I disagree with their end goal. Shadowlands has a serious issue with all its major progression features overlapping on each other, making it impossible to make them both powerful & interesting. You can't have super strong legendaries because one or two might synergize extremely well with a certain covenant/soulbind/conduit combo & vice versa, so the end result is multiple systems that feel uninteresting, & legendaries are the prime example of this.

We all knew it was coming. We all knew the only way to balance these systems was to make them all weak... But even if legendaries do get the buff they said they'd give them, it'll be minor, and the end result will still be the weakest legendaries we've ever had by some considerable distance.

[Eurhetemec]

I see your points, but I disagree with their end goal. Shadowlands has a serious issue with all its major progression features overlapping on each other, making it impossible to make them both powerful & interesting. You can't have super strong legendaries because one or two might synergize extremely well with a certain covenant/soulbind/conduit combo & vice versa, so the end result is multiple systems that feel uninteresting, & legendaries are the prime example of this.

We all knew it was coming. We all knew the only way to balance these systems was to make them all weak... But even if legendaries do get the buff they said they'd give them, it'll be minor, and the end result will still be the weakest legendaries we've ever had by some considerable distance.

To be fair I think the major issue with the legendaries is calling them legendaries. In every expansion legendaries have been in, they've pretty much had at least a slightly different role and way of functioning.

What they're calling legendaries in SL seems to be different yet again. I suspect with a different name attitudes to them would be more straightforwardly positive/excited.

I do acknowledge that the issue with having a ton of interacting, arguably competing systems is that it's difficult to make them both powerful and interesting though. I don't think we do disagree re: what the goal is. Rather, you're pointing out that it's going to be very hard to achieve, and that they're likely going to need to nerf PAST the point where a system would be "right" if that system were being added by itself.

[drbatman]

The DH changes are dumb.

Fel Mastery was actually decent, the fact momo build is a thing shouldnt be a reason to remove this talent it actually COMPLIMENTS it nicely, kinda pick both or pick none, that seems fair to me.

I agree with Fel Mastery felt a bit weird, but performance wise it was fine. it did look cool too.


Immo auro into fel rush, is fine, but its not exactly exciting ...

[tru]

So make classes feel like s* baseline and another xpac of being 1/2way enjoyable with eleventyseven borrowed power systems... seems about right

[Froziro]

Well RIP Havoc even more...