Pit Lord in Maldraxxus

[tommyhil622]

So in Theater of Pain, in Maldraxxus I saw/fought a Pit Lord (Azmogal) of the burning legion...what's the deal with this?



There was another member of the burning legion (Mistress Dyrax) lined up for battle but chained up. Along with a blighted dragon (Xantuth the Blighted).

[Aucald]

The Brokers bring extraplanar opponents for the Necrolords to whet their teeth on, so to speak. You can find another of these ring-like traps holding a Naaru in the exterior campus of the Theatre of Pain in Maldraxxus as well.

[shoc]

The Wild Gods take a detour through Ardenweald before moving onto the Emerald Dream, it's possible dead Demons take a detour through Maldraxxus before going back to the Twisting Nether.

Alternatively, they could have simply been summoned there like how any Demon is summoned anywhere.

[tommyhil622]

The Brokers bring extraplanar opponents for the Necrolords to whet their teeth on, so to speak. You can find another of these ring-like traps holding a Naaru in the exterior campus of the Theatre of Pain in Maldraxxus as well.

Oh yea i remember seeing that. I guess the brokers ferry their "prisoners" into Maldraxxus. Reminds me of the whole Roman Colosseum thing. However, this sort of thing seems wrong almost like it shouldn't be happening. I wonder if this sort of thing came about post Primus disappearance.

[Aucald]

Oh yea i remember seeing that. I guess the brokers ferry their "prisoners" into Maldraxxus. Reminds me of the whole Roman Colosseum thing. However, this sort of thing seems wrong almost like it shouldn't be happening. I wonder if this sort of thing came about post Primus disappearance.

Difficult to say, but given that the Necrolords also venture beyond the Shadowlands on missions to defend them preemptively I would imagine they do need to know the rudiments of contending with beings like demons, Naaru, void creatures, and the like. I would imagine fewer safeguards are in place now that the Primus is MIA, though; which probably isn't great in the long-term sense (or even the short term).

[Varodoc]

It's not confined to Maldraxxus. The venthyr of Revendreth captured and tortured a naaru in their underground dungeons. The reason why the Light invaded Revendreth was to avenge a scorn they suffered at the hands of Denathrius.

The Shadowlands constantly provoke the other cosmic forces. It is therefore not a surprise that both Light and Void retaliated in force against the Shadowlands in the past, invading Revendreth, Bastion, and Maldraxxus.

[MikeBogina]

The Shadowlands constantly provoke the other cosmic forces. It is therefore not a surprise that both Light and Void retaliated in force against the Shadowlands in the past, invading Revendreth, Bastion, and Maldraxxus.

it feels more like the otherway around. You have a universe with a system set in place that the living go to the shadowlands and you have these cosmic forces constantly interfering to the point that before Shadowlands was announced, we didn't even know that it was the afterlife for the entire universe and that people/things dying and not going there is unnatural because of a lot of cosmic forces interfering.

With all these forces who want this universe that aren't natural, like the Legion, Void and Light, it makes sense that you'd also have an interest in the other part where the souls tend to go to(unless this is an expansion like WoD where souls dont go to Shadowlands and get eaten up by Gorefiend, and Shadowlands is also like some void dimension... gg WoD for shitting on the lore). I think when SL was in alpha that there was a dialogue from someone mentioning some hungering monsters that are voidish that are invading the shadowlands but i haven't seen anything of that since.

[Varodoc]

it feels more like the otherway around. You have a universe with a system set in place that the living go to the shadowlands and you have these cosmic forces constantly interfering to the point that before Shadowlands was announced, we didn't even know that it was the afterlife for the entire universe and that people/things dying and not going there is unnatural because of a lot of cosmic forces interfering.

With all these forces who want this universe that aren't natural, like the Legion, Void and Light, it makes sense that you'd also have an interest in the other part where the souls tend to go to(unless this is an expansion like WoD where souls dont go to Shadowlands and get eaten up by Gorefiend, and Shadowlands is also like some void dimension... gg WoD for shitting on the lore). I think when SL was in alpha that there was a dialogue from someone mentioning some hungering monsters that are voidish that are invading the shadowlands but i haven't seen anything of that since.

Not according to the naaru Z'rali, the entity who led the invasion:

Now there is but one path before me. To ensure the Light is felt here. That justice is rendered. And that Death is made to know its place.

We came seeking justice. Retribution. To answer an affront committed upon the Light itself.

Death wronged the Light. This shouldn't surprise anyone. 2 out of the 5 Eternal Ones (the Jailer and Denathrius) are clearly shady bastards.

And yes, there are mentions of the Light and Void launching invasions of the Shadowlands in the past. The Void invaded Maldraxxus and Bastion, where it came close to wiping out the kyrians. The Light invaded Revendreth, where it scorched an entire region of the land, and launched smaller invasions into Maldraxxus.

[Garymorilix]

Death wronged the Light.

From the Light's PoV literally everything wronged it by merely existing.

The goodguys in Shadowlands are much more trustworthy than the Light (or Void for that matter).

[Maljinwo]

Shadowlands was a mistake

[MikeBogina]

Not according to the naaru Z'rali, the entity who led the invasion:





Death wronged the Light. This shouldn't surprise anyone. 2 out of the 5 Eternal Ones (the Jailer and Denathrius) are clearly shady bastards.

And yes, there are mentions of the Light and Void launching invasions of the Shadowlands in the past. The Void invaded Maldraxxus and Bastion, where it came close to wiping out the kyrians. The Light invaded Revendreth, where it scorched an entire region of the land, and launched smaller invasions into Maldraxxus.

we have claims of this, but where does it take place? So far everything we've seen is in the Shadowlands and even if not in the shadowlands, the light and void operating in the universe is interfering with the Shadowlands as those mortals and souls are apart of the Shadowlands system.

We're going to need more development of the Light, we know the Void who is the other side of the coin to the Light, is most definitely in the wrong and I'm sure we're going to see that the Light who more and more is being revealed to not be good either, is also in the wrong. Saying that main authority(as of yet) in the universe needs to know it's place, is like a Karen going into a store and thinking she's going to put some workers in their place.

[Varodoc]

we have claims of this, but where does it take place? So far everything we've seen is in the Shadowlands and even if not in the shadowlands, the light and void operating in the universe is interfering with the Shadowlands as those mortals and souls are apart of the Shadowlands system.

We're going to need more development of the Light, we know the Void who is the other side of the coin to the Light, is most definitely in the wrong and I'm sure we're going to see that the Light who more and more is being revealed to not be good either, is also in the wrong. Saying that main authority(as of yet) in the universe needs to know it's place, is like a Karen going into a store and thinking she's going to put some workers in their place.

What makes you think that the Shadowlands are the main authority in the universe? According to whom? The Light and Void represent the afterlife of all beings who have been inextricably warped by those powers. This can include demi-gods and deities like the naaru and old gods, or mortals like Crusader Bridenbrad. Why do these afterlives have less importance or legitimacy than the Shadowlands?

[Darknessvamp]

What makes you think that the Shadowlands are the main authority in the universe? According to whom? The Light and Void represent the afterlife of all beings who have been inextricably warped by those powers. This can include demi-gods and deities like the naaru and old gods, or mortals like Crusader Bridenbrad. Why do these afterlives have less importance or legitimacy than the Shadowlands?

Technically the Light and Void are not afterlives at all if the lore they introduced with the Chronicles is still considered to hold up in anyway, despite being decanonised as a word of god understanding and instead stated as a definitely likely flawed and biased interpretation of the history of this game's universe especially with the introduction of "First Ones", then the Light and Void are the base elements of all existence in the WoW universe and everything eventually formed from their clashing and melding.

They are not afterlives in so much as they are just the elements that everything in the universe came from and holds no actual claim or legitimacy to the control of the fate of things that exist in this universe as is made clear by the fact beings within this universe have to firstly pledge their support/subservience to these ancient forces before they are effected directly by them and the continued existence of their cosmic battle. Whereas the Shadowlands was one of many realms that arose from the conflict of these forces and as a result of some sort of universal system birthed from the same was designated as the "Realm of Death" and given charge over the fate of mortal souls... for some reason. So yeah they have legitimacy just cause and everyone who keeps messing with the natural order of things don't.

[MikeBogina]

What makes you think that the Shadowlands are the main authority in the universe? According to whom? The Light and Void represent the afterlife of all beings who have been inextricably warped by those powers. This can include demi-gods and deities like the naaru and old gods, or mortals like Crusader Bridenbrad. Why do these afterlives have less importance or legitimacy than the Shadowlands?

main authority as of yet. Being that when you die, where do you go? well these first ones set in place a system that takes your soul, based on how you acted and such in life and determines where you will spend the rest of eternity in the infinity of the shadowlands.

The Light and Void represent 2 foreign powers to the universe, who yes exist outside of it and no we have no proof or evidence that anyone who has been warped by them go to the Void or Light when they die. We just dont have any information of that. We have even Uther the Light Bringer who was all about the Light who was still sent to the Shadowlands. The fact that the Light and Void are considered enemies of the Shadowlands and that there's not a Light or Void afterlife in the Shadowlands kinda shows that what they're doing is an affront to the universe. Demi-gods btw, have now been developed that they go to Ardenwield and by the grace of Ardenwield(im probably spelling that wrong) are then allowed to go back into the universe as their duty is a duty that must be continued and the authority of them also then falls to being the SnowQueen... aka the ShadowLands. Also Bridenbrad's fate is unknown, have you seen exactly where he's gone? And if he did go to the light, being outside the universe, it's because the Naaru did that to him.

Why do they have less importance? Because they're not afterlives, the Light and the Void are outside the universe and are not realms that the living... live in. And they're less important, or illegitimate because they interfere with the natural process. If one dies, they go to the Shadowlands with the only exception being demons for obvious reasons, the only reason someone who isn't a demon wouldn't go to the shadowlands is if an outside power actively interfered. This interference obviously is a hostile action against the universe and the shadowlands, especially if it's taking souls outside of the universe as the Light and Void do(according to you).

So yeah, the Light and Void has legit no authority or right to put an actual authority in the universe in it's place.

[Varodoc]

main authority as of yet. Being that when you die, where do you go? well these first ones set in place a system that takes your soul, based on how you acted and such in life and determines where you will spend the rest of eternity in the infinity of the shadowlands.

The Light and Void represent 2 foreign powers to the universe, who yes exist outside of it and no we have no proof or evidence that anyone who has been warped by them go to the Void or Light when they die. We just dont have any information of that. We have even Uther the Light Bringer who was all about the Light who was still sent to the Shadowlands. The fact that the Light and Void are considered enemies of the Shadowlands and that there's not a Light or Void afterlife in the Shadowlands kinda shows that what they're doing is an affront to the universe. Demi-gods btw, have now been developed that they go to Ardenwield and by the grace of Ardenwield(im probably spelling that wrong) are then allowed to go back into the universe as their duty is a duty that must be continued and the authority of them also then falls to being the SnowQueen... aka the ShadowLands. Also Bridenbrad's fate is unknown, have you seen exactly where he's gone? And if he did go to the light, being outside the universe, it's because the Naaru did that to him.

Why do they have less importance? Because they're not afterlives, the Light and the Void are outside the universe and are not realms that the living... live in. And they're less important, or illegitimate because they interfere with the natural process. If one dies, they go to the Shadowlands with the only exception being demons for obvious reasons, the only reason someone who isn't a demon wouldn't go to the shadowlands is if an outside power actively interfered. This interference obviously is a hostile action against the universe and the shadowlands, especially if it's taking souls outside of the universe as the Light and Void do(according to you).

So yeah, the Light and Void has legit no authority or right to put an actual authority in the universe in it's place.

Old Gods and their minions return to the Void, the Light and their creations return to the Light, blessed champion like Bridenbrad are personally brought to the Light, Uther's soul was partly saved from Frostmourne thanks to the Light. There is NO reason to assume that the Shadowlands is the default afterlife of Warcraft, and that mortals somehow have more legitimacy or right to exist than the Light and Void creatures. Why should a naaru see the Shadowlands as its rightful afterlife, when it doesn't go there when it dies? Why should the perspective of a mortal MATTER more than that of a naruu? That is presumptuous and clearly biased.

[DesoPL]

The Brokers bring extraplanar opponents for the Necrolords to whet their teeth on, so to speak. You can find another of these ring-like traps holding a Naaru in the exterior campus of the Theatre of Pain in Maldraxxus as well.

If i am not wrong, demon hunters got ability from necrolords to summon felguard to kill and get an buff or something. Fodder to the flame skill.

[Aucald]

If i am not wrong, demon hunters got ability from necrolords to summon felguard to kill and get an buff or something. Fodder to the flame skill.

Basically, yeah - the ability is "Commission a duel to the death against a Condemned Demon from the Theater of Pain. Vanquishing your foe releases its demon soul and creates a pool of demon blood that lasts for 30 sec. Fighting within the pool increases your attack speed by 20% and reduces the damage that enemies deal to you by 10%." Which really sounds kind of cool, if a bit unwieldy.

[MikeBogina]

Old Gods and their minions return to the Void, the Light and their creations return to the Light

Though I don't disagree with you, though we don't know if that's true either, what's the point? They dont have mortal souls, no are they apart of the natural universe or it's system.

blessed champion like Bridenbrad are personally brought to the Light

if he actually went to the light(still haven't seen confirmation of this fate) it was done "personally" by a light being, which... again is an interference, so you're backing my point up

Uther's soul was partly saved from Frostmourne thanks to the Light

And still went to the shadowlands. This feels very similar to demon hunters creating a shade of Akama.

There is NO reason to assume that the Shadowlands is the default afterlife of Warcraft

You haven't really done a good job so far arguing against it lol. So I have for years on this site been calling all of the afterlives "Safety nets" basically all of them are in place to catch someone who dies who's aligned with a force. Examples would be the Emerald Dream, Twisting Nether and Argus, Halls of Valor, even Paradise(only because of Bridenbrad) and some others. The thing with all of these is that they're not natural for mortals. Something has to happen in a mortals life to get them to go there, like taking your natural self and filling it with power that links you to these realms. Consume too much fel and you go to the twisting nether, become a druid and maybe go to the Emerald Dream(wasn't too sure if that was the case for druids or just nature beings), be a warrior and impress Odyn and you go there unless Helya gets ya first. But these are all inferences and keep you from going to the true afterlife that is the Shadowlands. Learning now that even the Emerald Dream isn't an afterlife for demi-gods who go to Ardenwield instead.

and that mortals somehow have more legitimacy or right to exist than the Light and Void creatures.

I'm not saying that, but it's the fact that the light and void creatures are invading the universe when they have their own realms and they're fighting over the universe, conscripting mortals to their sides and enacting their "authority" when they're foreign. Demons have more right to exist in the universe than the light and void, we even have a member of the universe, Sargeras who's goal is to remake the universe so that the Void can't get in, which does make me wonder with the Shadowlands reveal, if he was more willing to kill everyone knowing that he could probably bring them back, but that's offtopic lol

Why should a naaru see the Shadowlands as its rightful afterlife, when it doesn't go there when it dies?

Naaru is a foreign invader and no it shouldn't see that as it's rightful afterlife... no more than it should see the universe as it's rightful living space. Kinda supports the whole "it doesn't belong here" when it goes outside the universe when it dies(we dont actually know anything about where it goes, if it goes anywhere yet)

Why should the perspective of a mortal MATTER more than that of a naruu? That is presumptuous and clearly biased.

Literally natural inhabitant and foreign invader. And the irony of you saying that when the Naaru come to the universe and enforce it's ways on the mortals... lol. I dont want to get into politics, but I feel like low-key, we're discussing some real world stuff atm xD

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Basically, yeah - the ability is "Commission a duel to the death against a Condemned Demon from the Theater of Pain. Vanquishing your foe releases its demon soul and creates a pool of demon blood that lasts for 30 sec. Fighting within the pool increases your attack speed by 20% and reduces the damage that enemies deal to you by 10%." Which really sounds kind of cool, if a bit unwieldy.

Are the demons living souls technically? Are they brought there alive or could this be something like they're killed and the brokers snatch their souls up? I know Demons naturally go back to the Twisting Nether, but if something took it, they could bring it to the Shadowlands?

[Varodoc]

Though I don't disagree with you, though we don't know if that's true either, what's the point? They dont have mortal souls, no are they apart of the natural universe or it's system.


if he actually went to the light(still haven't seen confirmation of this fate) it was done "personally" by a light being, which... again is an interference, so you're backing my point up

And still went to the shadowlands. This feels very similar to demon hunters creating a shade of Akama.

You haven't really done a good job so far arguing against it lol. So I have for years on this site been calling all of the afterlives "Safety nets" basically all of them are in place to catch someone who dies who's aligned with a force. Examples would be the Emerald Dream, Twisting Nether and Argus, Halls of Valor, even Paradise(only because of Bridenbrad) and some others. The thing with all of these is that they're not natural for mortals. Something has to happen in a mortals life to get them to go there, like taking your natural self and filling it with power that links you to these realms. Consume too much fel and you go to the twisting nether, become a druid and maybe go to the Emerald Dream(wasn't too sure if that was the case for druids or just nature beings), be a warrior and impress Odyn and you go there unless Helya gets ya first. But these are all inferences and keep you from going to the true afterlife that is the Shadowlands. Learning now that even the Emerald Dream isn't an afterlife for demi-gods who go to Ardenwield instead.


I'm not saying that, but it's the fact that the light and void creatures are invading the universe when they have their own realms and they're fighting over the universe, conscripting mortals to their sides and enacting their "authority" when they're foreign. Demons have more right to exist in the universe than the light and void, we even have a member of the universe, Sargeras who's goal is to remake the universe so that the Void can't get in, which does make me wonder with the Shadowlands reveal, if he was more willing to kill everyone knowing that he could probably bring them back, but that's offtopic lol

Naaru is a foreign invader and no it shouldn't see that as it's rightful afterlife... no more than it should see the universe as it's rightful living space. Kinda supports the whole "it doesn't belong here" when it goes outside the universe when it dies(we dont actually know anything about where it goes, if it goes anywhere yet)

Literally natural inhabitant and foreign invader. And the irony of you saying that when the Naaru come to the universe and enforce it's ways on the mortals... lol. I dont want to get into politics, but I feel like low-key, we're discussing some real world stuff atm xD

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Are the demons living souls technically? Are they brought there alive or could this be something like they're killed and the brokers snatch their souls up? I know Demons naturally go back to the Twisting Nether, but if something took it, they could bring it to the Shadowlands?

Where's your proof that Light and Void don't belong in the universe nor they are considered part of it? I grow tired of your unsubstantiated talk about "foreign forces".

Also, the only thing creepy here is you constantly belittling Light and Void for being "foreign" and presuming they have less rights and legitimacy than mortals.

And you know that EVERY cosmic force has their own afterlife like the Light and Void, right? Yes, even the titans return to their Arcane afterlife.

[MikeBogina]

Where's your proof that Light and Void don't belong in the universe?

There's literally 2 realms where they come from that exist outside the universe. They're the only 2 forces in existence that do exist outside the universe and because of that, life and death, don't mean the same thing to them. They are "Outside the cycle" which is something that's been pointed out many times.

The Light and Void beings are literally foreign cosmic parasites, especially the Old Gods and their minions who's creation is that to corrupt and make way for the Void Lords into the universe.