Should You Use CurseForge? CEO Explains WoW App’s Privacy, Feature, Ad Changes

[kaminaris]

OK, so I'm just going to assume that you have simply not at all kept up with the thread at all, as the alternative is that you have decided to pivot away to avoid engaging with what is being said. I'm going to assume you're not just being a bad faith actor and that you've just not kept up with the thread. This is a quote one of my first posts in the thread:

Bad faith is people spreading nonsense and outright lying about overwolf because "they heard something from someone". Their app works as intended, no issues whatsoever, no any valuable data is being collected and you are not being sold as a slave. This is getting ridiculous.

[Kallisto]

Nothing to do with lazy, imagine that people don't want to manually check and update their 50+ addons daily.

We're living in 2020, you don't need to impose self-inflicted challenges over trivial shit.

Exactly, trying to keep up with 50+ addons manually just isn't feasible. I'm certainly not going to remember if I updated addon x or y since the last update when I have a ton of them. Pretty much anyone updating manually either has some addons that are extremely outdated or have less than 15 addons.

[Toybox]

This entire discussion though would be irrelevant then. Because it is not about the needs being fullfilled or not. Because hosting and delivering addons is a need that Overwolf is filling. All of the arguments against Overwolf has nothing to do with needs. But luxuries. They don't want ads. They don't want data mining. Etc Etc. Those are all luxuries. A lot of the objections are things that both Curse and Amazon likely did.

Are some of the concern legitimate? Sure. But it has nothing to do with the function of the an app to download addons. And lets be fair the only real problem with the current Curseforge app is that it requires a secondary app to be installed. The main Overwolf client while essentially the same as Twitch it isn't integrated like the Mods tab is so it feels different.

I'm entirely against the notion that privacy should be seen as a luxury. Just as I don't like the idea of someone looking through my window as I read a book, I don't like the idea of someone seeing what musical window-shopping I'm doing online, either.

& believe me, I'm well aware that concealing your digital footprint is impossible without not connecting to the net, but that doesn't devalue wanting to shut some of those windows. Why open another window when other apps can do what Overwolf does but faster & more politely?

[kaminaris]

Why open another window when other apps can do what Overwolf does but faster & more politely?

Because it's unauthorized access similar to scrapping, not contributing to platform, not contributing to authors in any way.
This is a mindset of demanding karen that just wants everything for free without giving anything in return because you deserve it.

[Toybox]

Because it's unauthorized access similar to scrapping, not contributing to platform, not contributing to authors in any way.
This is a mindset of demanding karen that just wants everything for free without giving anything in return because you deserve it.

I'd like to think of it more as a matter of extremes, where hopefully some middleground can be found. I understand they're a company with operating costs looking to turn a profit, but there's more ethical ways to do that than invade privacy. Ads alone aren't something I have an issue with. If it were just the ads, I'd honestly not mind.

[Gaidax]

Because it's unauthorized access similar to scrapping, not contributing to platform, not contributing to authors in any way.
This is a mindset of demanding karen that just wants everything for free without giving anything in return because you deserve it.

Of course it's authorized. WoWUp does nothing Curseforge does not allow - they have the API key issued to them by Curseforge.

Overwolf can choose to revoke that API key and they already semi-floated it by threatening them to integrate adds or else, but what WoWUp does is definitely legal.

If Overwolf will choose to fuck WoWUp up, community will remember it.

[Kumorii]

Easy and fast to use. People are intimidated to use it because it doesn't have a GUI and they think it's hard to setup. In reality it's really easy to setup Cursebreaker.

- Place the Cursebreaker.exe into the folder with your WoW.exe

- Run Cursebreaker.exe (You can make a shortcut)

- If it's your first time using Cursebreaker you will need to enter two commands into the screen. "Import" which will find all the addons you have installed. Then once it has found all your addons you then type into the screen "Import Install"

That's it. Then to update your addons from there you will simply click on the Cursebreaker.exe and it will update everything automatically. It takes maybe 10 seconds for it to update my 20 addons. Plus side is that it also pulls updates from the ElvUI/TukUI website. So if you use that UI for WoW you never have to manually update it again.

Sounds good... problem with WoWup.exe atm is that it have absurd load time considering the type of program it is. I guess it's because it's all just a simple .exe and doesn't load things by demand bit by bit... could be wrong though. By absurd I mean maybe 15-20s before gui pops up. Which is slow considering wow barely takes that time to launch and I'm on a SSD that works great for any other program or game.

That and WoWup seems to get updates later. Lots of addons saying they are out of date after updating but no update to be found in WoWUp but if I look for the addon it sure do have updates. I liked the premise of it, not entirely sure of the delivery.

[kaminaris]

Of course it's authorized. WoWUp does nothing Curseforge does not allow - they have the API key issued to them by Curseforge.

Overwolf can choose to revoke that API key and they already semi-floated it by threatening them to integrate adds or else, but what WoWUp does is definitely legal.

If Overwolf will choose to fuck WoWUp up, community will remember it.

It is unauthorized. You are wrong:
https://medium.com/overwolf/our-stan...e-19f4559a322a

Unauthorized Use of the CurseForge API
CurseForge does not have an official API for 3rd parties who want to download files from its servers. The way some addon managers operate today, is by reverse engineering the calls between the Twitch Client and the CurseForge backend.

[Baneto]

Because it's unauthorized access similar to scrapping, not contributing to platform, not contributing to authors in any way.
This is a mindset of demanding karen that just wants everything for free without giving anything in return because you deserve it.

But it is supposed to be free, its what their policy on addons is: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Blizzard_AddOn_Policy

[Magical Mudcrab]

Bad faith is people spreading nonsense and outright lying about overwolf because "they heard something from someone". Their app works as intended, no issues whatsoever, no any valuable data is being collected and you are not being sold as a slave. This is getting ridiculous.

OK, I guess I was wrong then, you are just a bad faith actor. You've basically lied about my position, then refuse to engage when shown that you are lying, refused to engage with the topic at hand, choosing to hand-wave any user complaints and acting as though their experience does not matter, which is a horrific stance for you a self-proclaimed software developer to have, and have backpedaled on every point. I've never seen someone cow toe to an addon manager like you have been doing before, it's silly.

[kaminaris]

But it is supposed to be free, its what their policy on addons is: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Blizzard_AddOn_Policy

And it is. You are mistaking something being free with users demanding attitude like the guy above me, that also don't want to see adds that pays for hosting of addons, categorization, tools development. Adds is essentially what makes all those conveniences free

Without then you would have to search net for scattered addons youself, install and update them manually.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, I guess I was wrong then, you are just a bad faith actor. You've basically lied about my position, then refuse to engage when shown that you are lying, refused to engage with the topic at hand, choosing to hand-wave any user complaints and acting as though their experience does not matter, which is a horrific stance for you a self-proclaimed software developer to have, and have backpedaled on every point. I've never seen someone cow toe to an addon manager like you have been doing before, it's silly.

I haven't backpedaled at anything. Everything I said in this thread still stands. You can throw tantrums all you want but in the end its overwolf (and addon authors) decision where they host addons and under what conditions. If you dont like it you can always stop using addons.

User experience with curseforge app is top notch. Application itself starts in ~1 second, has one add in bottom right corner, updates addons with one button and close button also closes overwolf (which I didn't give any consent to).

It is you who is delusioned about some imaginary problem that just doesn't exist. And I am not self proclaimed, im professional developer for well over 10 years. Addons is just my off hobby.

[rhorle]

While 3rd party applications have been a main focus in the discussion, they're not actually very relevant to the core discussion around user experience, which is sort-of what the discussion I'm having in the quote has boiled down to.

But they are. Because the entire discussion is that those 3rd party apps and how you feel they fill a need better because the Curseforge App does not. You even later argue that your points are based on the principle rather then an actual lack of need. Which further shows how silly this entire discussion is. You can't commit to this being about 3rd party apps versus First party and even say there is no real issue with the First party app and you are just objecting to object.

Weird right?

[bloodykiller86]

"New privacy policy to address concerns, no more selling of data to companies including research they don't feel "internally comfortable with"."


Hahaha

"We still sell your data, but we worded it so it sounds like we dont anymore" is what i read.

if you think everything online doesnt sell your data then you know absolutely nothing about how the modern world works lol tf did you think was happening when using twitch client?

[rhorle]

hmmm, why would I use an addon manager to do something I can do myself? I wouldnt and you couldn't pay me to ever use Overwolf for anything. Have people really gotten so lazy with their addons that they need a manager for them ?

Why did you use a forum post when you could have visited us all in person? Convenience. Its why we have transportation rather then walking every where. Why we have stores rather then growing everything ourselves. Why we have entertainment services rather then just entertaining ourselves. People are not lazy for using a manager. People just don't need to do it when a program can do it for them.

Spending 10 seconds to click "Update All" allows people to get to other things, like the actual game, faster.

[bloodykiller86]

But it is supposed to be free, its what their policy on addons is: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Blizzard_AddOn_Policy

devs getting compensation from curseforge from ads and subs and them charging for their addons are two completely different things. curseforge is basically like youtube. your engagement with the platform and its ads helps the devs in the end. using WoWUp and donating to WoWUp isnt helping devs at all. imho they should just block WoWUp from having access or force WoWUp to show ads that curseforge generates.

[rowaasr13]

"On 11/30 - addons will only be available via the CurseForge app. Additionally, the mods tab will no longer be available in the Twitch Desktop App."

Nothing like a little change in branding to "Curseforge" app due to the negative reaction to the "Overwolf" app.

It was "CurseForge" app from the start. OW is hub appstore-type app that you use to install CF. Why I get the feeling that all the FUD and lies fearmongers didn't even see the app they so loudly complain about?

It looks like they will remove access to the site for other apps on the 30th.

No, it doesn't. Stop shitting. It will be removed voluntarily from Twitch by Twitch itself, because Twitch wanted to get rid of it and sold it to OW, not because OW would somehow start blocking them.

[bloodykiller86]

Of course it's authorized. WoWUp does nothing Curseforge does not allow - they have the API key issued to them by Curseforge.

Overwolf can choose to revoke that API key and they already semi-floated it by threatening them to integrate adds or else, but what WoWUp does is definitely legal.

If Overwolf will choose to fuck WoWUp up, community will remember it.

its funny how the community ignores how WoWup is fucking the developers of addons but ok

[rhorle]

Why open another window when other apps can do what Overwolf does but faster & more politely?

The problem is that the window being opened is by those other apps. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to use those other apps but it isn't needed. The default apps have always been perfectly fine. Curse, Twitch, and now Curseforge+Overwolf. They all work. Having no GUI, having less privacy concerns, pulling from other sites etc are all luxuries.

Is it fine to want those things? Sure. But to condemn or bash things for not having it is stupid. And lets face it "Faster" has nothing to do with this because the speed that things happens with any app is negligible. As long as Overwolf doesn't lock "Update All" behind a paywall like Curse once did then speed isn't a factor.

[rowaasr13]

I'm entirely against the notion that privacy should be seen as a luxury. Just as I don't like the idea of someone looking through my window as I read a book, I don't like the idea of someone seeing what musical window-shopping I'm doing online, either.

& believe me, I'm well aware that concealing your digital footprint is impossible without not connecting to the net, but that doesn't devalue wanting to shut some of those windows. Why open another window when other apps can do what Overwolf does but faster & more politely?

I couldn't get it from other complainers, but you seems to be informed, so maybe you can enlighten me at last: what EXACT private information OW spies from you? I'm pretty sure it doesn't look through your window as you read a book, so name something else.

If anything, app is harder to abuse to fingerprint than browser, because it is the very same browser inside, but with profile limited to visiting CurseForge. It simply doesn't have any of your "outside-CF" cookies/fingerprinting/whatever to actually abuse.

[rhorle]

But it is supposed to be free, its what their policy on addons is: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Blizzard_AddOn_Policy

No. Blizzard does not say that a website restrict access to download addons. Addons themselves can not be charged for. Blizzard is perfectly fine with premium benefits being offered to obtain addons. This isn't a new thing. CurseForge has been monetizing hosting addons for at least a decade now.