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  1. #1

    Question On Fixing How U.S. Elects Presidents: A Discussion

    So, I'm not usually a poster here, or anywhere on MMOChampion, so excuse the low count of posts and, perhaps my ignorance of certain subjects relating to politics; I've never voted in my entire life (28 years) until trump came into office. By the time I saw him step onto the podium the first time, I could tell that he wasn't fit for the office. He's been in it all for himself, and the last 4 years proves it in my opinion. He may have done the minimal amount of 'good', but its exactly that--minimal.

    That being said... I've had some discussions with my immediate family who fears trump running again in 2024. Its a little ways off, but whats to say we won't have the chance to be in the exact same boat as we were these last 4 years, in 2024? What is stopping anyone like trump running again and eroding our systems?

    It seems very flawed, and I'm not exactly sure how we (or Biden, since he will have the reigns soon) can fix this.

    My proposal, would be extensive background tests, IQ tests... some kind of 'intelligence' test? I don't expect the president to always be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I think they should be above pandering to conspiracy theories, and outright dangerous thinking. There should be some kind of 'moral' ground to be President of the United States. I know we've had presidents in the past who have done very heinous things on both sides of the aisle, but as we've gone through the centuries, America has 'generally' been one to lean toward 'morally good' decisions.

    For example, according to a poster on Quora: what is stopping a convicted criminal in jail from running for President? This could be false, but curious about what you guys might say on this.

    The system just seems like it really needs some adjusting for the present century, and so that we don't end up destroying ourselves or harming our time-tested allies.

    TLDR: What can be realistically done to make sure we don't have wild and crazy presidents again that are dangerous to the world?

  2. #2
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Improving public education, making election day a national holiday, and restoring voting rights to felons who have served their sentence. Those are the first three things that come to mind, and one of them is actually extraordinarily simple to do (seriously, turning election day into a national holiday is not complicated, it might be difficult because the GOP will obviously seek to prevent it since it makes it harder for them to ratfuck the election, but it still isn't remotely as complicated as education reform and criminal justice reform).

    (Edit: This is why I shouldn't post while sleep-deprived and not wearing my glasses, I discovered I had left out "education" from "public education").
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2020-11-10 at 04:47 PM.
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  3. #3
    You're going to have to convince the very people who don't want to improve elections: republicans. They will fight tooth and nail against anything that makes sense.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    You're going to have to convince the very people who don't want to improve elections: republicans. They will fight tooth and nail against anything that makes sense.
    So, could changes be made to the process of electing candidates come about should Democrats have a senate majority? Or would this require other means?

    I dont think I'd want to upset the status quo too much, just make it more difficult to elect someone who doesn't have the good of America in mind over themselves. Like the background checks/IQ tests--I feel as if there should be a baseline checklist that keeps certain types of people from running (aka narcissists). I just dunno how such a proccess could be realistically implemented.

  5. #5
    I am not happy to say it but revolution is probably the only real fix. Politics is corrupted from the top all the way to the bottom by wealthy special interests on both sides of a two party system. None of them will give up that money. None of them care about the people beyond thier ability to manipulate them. It won't happen for a while because people here still have it pretty good. Homes, cars, and entertainment. But eventually those things will need to be slowed down and taken so certain groups and individuals can continue to see a quarter of a point gains because it will be all that is left. Then finally the reset botton will be pushed and after a lot of pain that didn't need to happen the Empire will fall and Rome will be ruled by a cluster of smaller kingdoms that eventually become nations that remember how good it was in the past and how stupidly it was thosed away. But then start the cycle over to build the new Rome and then eventually watch it shatter again on the backs of greedy mother fuckers.

  6. #6
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    You just described the intent of electoral college... Since that seems to be a solution you would prefer, I would say fixing the census to more accurately distribute electoral representation... as counter intuitive as it sounds... get rid of it... people have a better track record in modern history.

    IQ tests are silly... debates are supposed to show the wit of a president.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkra View Post
    So, could changes be made to the process of electing candidates come about should Democrats have a senate majority? Or would this require other means?

    I dont think I'd want to upset the status quo too much, just make it more difficult to elect someone who doesn't have the good of America in mind over themselves. Like the background checks/IQ tests--I feel as if there should be a baseline checklist that keeps certain types of people from running (aka narcissists). I just dunno how such a proccess could be realistically implemented.
    At the federal level it would require a constitutional amendment that takes back the power to run elections from the state. That requires more than a majority as well as 3/4ths of states to approve the amendment. Not going to happen.

    The more likely scenario is the popular vote interstate compact. That's state level and only requires enough states for 270 electoral votes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You just described the intent of electoral college... Since that seems to be a solution you would prefer, I would say fixing the census to more accurately distribute electoral representation... as counter intuitive as it sounds... get rid of it... people have a better track record in modern history.

    IQ tests are silly... debates are supposed to show the wit of a president.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    At the federal level it would require a constitutional amendment that takes back the power to run elections from the state. That requires more than a majority as well as 3/4ths of states to approve the amendment. Not going to happen.

    The more likely scenario is the popular vote interstate compact. That's state level and only requires enough states for 270 electoral votes.
    Thats actually what I think should happen... considering both Hillary (even though she had some questionable things, I would have much preferred her over trump any day of the week) and Biden both won the popular vote, it makes sense. One of my family members was saying getting rid of the electoral would be bad, but when it comes down to it... the popular vote does make a hell of a lot more sense. I honestly dont care whether a Dem or Rep gets in, just as long as they got morals and don't have a brain smaller than an ant to push nonsense to the populace... because as we've seen, the populace will eat it up like morning breakfast.

  9. #9
    A national holiday for voting seems to be an easy one. I dont think most people would object to it

  10. #10
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    1. Eliminate the electoral vote. It's an archaic system based solely on the south not wanting to, surprise surprise for all American history pre-1865, give up their slaves.

    2. Eliminate the lame duck session. Before trains, planes, the automobile, phones, TV and the internet, it was slow to get the news out. Now everyone knows instantly who won the election. Move the inauguration forward. Certification happens immediately after the vote count, inauguration in 24 hours after that. Don't give lame ducks time to trash the place.

    3. Expand elections. Nationwide mail in ballots, standardizations on when which ballots were cast (Ohio for example counted their mail in votes before the election which is why they decided on a winner pretty fast.) Make it a national holiday on a Friday and keep polls open throughout a weekend.

    4. Increase funding for education and crack down on fake news.

    5. Encourage parents to sit down with their kids, teach them how to lose, and show them love so they don't grow up to be another Trump.

  11. #11
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkra View Post
    Thats actually what I think should happen... considering both Hillary (even though she had some questionable things, I would have much preferred her over trump any day of the week) and Biden both won the popular vote, it makes sense. One of my family members was saying getting rid of the electoral would be bad, but when it comes down to it... the popular vote does make a hell of a lot more sense. I honestly dont care whether a Dem or Rep gets in, just as long as they got morals and don't have a brain smaller than an ant to push nonsense to the populace... because as we've seen, the populace will eat it up like morning breakfast.
    That’s sort of my general opinion on democrats policy, I think they need to rebrand to be more populace. Shift to the left, but as a populist.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    A national holiday for voting seems to be an easy one. I dont think most people would object to it
    And yet, you and the rest of the Trumpsters keep fighting against such things.
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    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  13. #13
    I don't think testing would end well - even stupid people should probably get a say in who runs their lives. But moreover, there's really no objective way to determine who's "good enough" without it turning into a bigoted mess. Instead, we should fix the systems that allow such a massive horde of stupid people to exist. Things like Fox News and the massive wave of social media disinformation need to be fixed.

    I doubt even Democrats would go along with any fix, though. The source to all of our problems isn't necessarily the EC - it's the plurality, winner-take-all awarding of electors. And that system directly leads to two parties. If we change to any kind of proportional reward system, Democrats and Republicans would become just 2 of several parties. No one in Washington is willing to give up that much power.
    Last edited by Grapemask; 2020-11-10 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #14
    IF it were me

    1. Election Day is a national holiday

    2. Get rid of the Electoral College or at the least electoral votes shouldn't be winner take all. Every state should be like Nebraska and Maine

    3. legislation for national elections so that the rules are standardized across the states and to stop voter suppression in national elections.

    4. ranked choice voting

    5. bring back the fairness doctrine

  15. #15
    I heard some states are thinking about giving the winner of the popular vote the electoral votes.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1247159

  16. #16
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Popular. Vote.

    That goes a long way right there.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You just described the intent of electoral college...
    The intent of the electoral college was to ensure the North couldn't vote to end slavery.
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  18. #18
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    You can always find flaws in any election system and it's a waste of time to focus on the system itself instead of focusing on *policy* disagreements. Trying to tinker with the system and regulating who can be president is largely pointless and meaningless when the voters are divided 50/50 or within a 5% difference. If the populace was divided 70/30 and both parties had equal power then yeah I would admit the system itself is the cause of problems, but that is not what the numbers say.
    Last edited by PC2; 2020-11-10 at 03:23 PM.
    -------
    A problem consists of a conflict between two ideas. Problems are soluble.
    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    I heard some states are thinking about giving the winner of the popular vote the electoral votes.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1247159
    It's a work-around, it won't truly be effective until more Republican states sign up to it, and frankly it exacerbates what's bad about the EC.

    Sure, it's probably the best you're going to get, but it's nowhere near as good as simply abolishing the EC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    You can always find flaws in any election system and it's a waste of time to focus on the system itself instead of focusing on *policy* disagreements.
    No offence but that's pretty inane. The EC is has blatant, material faults and needs fixing.

    Policy questions obviously occur anyway. This is like saying "we can't plug the hole in the raft, we need to keep paddling".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  20. #20
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The intent of the <insert dumb thing here> was to ensure the North couldn't vote to end slavery.
    You've just described most of American politics from its inception as the 13 colonies to the end of the Civil War.

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