Why have they stopped giving each class lots of new abilities each expansion?

[Swnem]

Combo them properly? nani? Combo them with what?

You literally cannot press Heatshot without pressing hypercharge, and pressing hypercharge while heatshot is up would be terrible because you would be clipping your heat and wasting a gcd and like a half.
Spreadhsot and auto crossbow are the same spell, same size, same shape, same potency. The only difference is AC has the heated reduced gcd. AC is an obligate upgrade over SS, ever pressing SS when you can press AC is objectively the wrong play in 100% of circumstances.
Reassemble and drill/AA have a similar issue. Because drill and AA have the same potency pressing reassemble with either effectively has the same result and you only press reassemble with either 100% of the time, pressing it with any other button is objectively a mistake.

You have made the classic problem of associating more buttons with more complexity. If you merged heatshot and hypercharge and AC and SS gameplay would be identical to how it is right now.
Reassemble shows the other side of the coin, an ability that is so one dimensional the right play is the same play 100% of the time it should be redesigned.

You act like i didnt read your post and repeat. I did. I don't agree that the result is the same.
There is knowledge in say using AA in place of spread under overheat. You know that it's optimal to use it. You make a decision when you hit AA instead of spread.
If you make them the same button, you are not really reacting to the fact you just overheated, you are just doing the same thing like nothing happened.
As you pointed out, AC has a faster GCD which makes it a bit different.

Now, if we wanted to prune buttons i'd understand, but i don't share the opinion that it is necessary and i do think something is lost by doing it.

The thing is, we can put every rotation in a single button that just changed to the next in the rotation. It is optimal. But, is it fun? The fact that you have to make the right decision on what to push is what makes combat feel good when you perform optimally. Losing that makes combat mindless.

[Unholyground]

Because they don't want to admit they sorely need another form of permanent progression beyond borrowed power and that there are several games that do it exceedingly well and flat out refuse to use one of them as a template or guide. Guild Wars 2 does it exceedingly well and it is shared across your account as long as it is not profession(class) specific but those were just collections for items/item transmogs.

[Saltysquidoon]

You act like i didnt read your post and repeat. I did. I don't agree that the result is the same.
There is knowledge in say using AA in place of spread under overheat. You know that it's optimal to use it. You make a decision when you hit AA instead of spread.
If you make them the same button, you are not really reacting to the fact you just overheated, you are just doing the same thing like nothing happened.
As you pointed out, AA has a faster GCD which makes it different.

Now, if we wanted to prune buttons i'd understand, but i don't share the opinion that it is necessary and i do think something is lost by doing it.

The thing is, we can put every rotation in a single button that just changed to the next in the rotation. It is optimal. But, is it fun? The fact that you have to make the right decision on what to push is what makes combat feel good when you perform optimally. Losing that makes combat mindless.

The right decision is only a decision when it's an actual decision, the point I'm trying to make is that using an ability that is just the same spell but better is not a decision. The knowledge part of that process is knowing when to press hypercharge (i.e are the adds close to death, will they despwan soon, go invulnerable) so you don't waste heat or overcap. There is no knowledge involved in pressing AC when you have overheated in an aoe situation, again, it's an obligate upgrade over SS.
To use another job, it's not a 'decision' that requires 'knowledge' to know you don't hard cast veraero in combat that's just playing the spec.
In my opinion if we want to go down the road of knowing your rotation is 'knowledge' then the logical conclusion is knowing to press buttons is knowledge so every button press is a 'decision'.

I respect you disagree with me that's fine, my issue is I feel like you're not presenting an argument you can support. You're just saying "I think pruning is always bad" which, again is a fine opinion to hold but you need to defend it.

[Swnem]

The right decision is only a decision when it's an actual decision, the point I'm trying to make is that using an ability that is just the same spell but better is not a decision. The knowledge part of that process is knowing when to press hypercharge (i.e are the adds close to death, will they despwan soon, go invulnerable) so you don't waste heat or overcap. There is no knowledge involved in pressing AC when you have overheated in an aoe situation, again, it's an obligate upgrade over SS.
To use another job, it's not a 'decision' that requires 'knowledge' to know you don't hard cast veraero in combat that's just playing the spec.
In my opinion if we want to go down the road of knowing your rotation is 'knowledge' then the logical conclusion is knowing to press buttons is knowledge so every button press is a 'decision'.

I respect you disagree with me that's fine, my issue is I feel like you're not presenting an argument you can support. You're just saying "I think pruning is always bad" which, again is a fine opinion to hold but you need to defend it.

But, there is. You use AC instead of SS. It does more DPS. You just do it so naturally that you don't think it is anymore. When to use the overheat is a different layer of decision.

I disagree indeed and i think your argument is the flawed one. See here "There is no knowledge involved in pressing AC when you have overheated". If there is no knowledge, how do you know to press it?

I don't think pruning is always bad, in fact. In fact, i'd say what you are suggesting is not pruning but unifying. You propose merging the functionality of 2 abilities and i understand that, but i think something is lost doing that. I prefer to remove useless abilities that don't see use or upgrading existing ones into a more satisfying form. So, in this case, you feel like AC is not different enough from SS. So, i would add a functionality like using it increases the damage of the off gcd ability (i don't know the names from memory. The AoE one).

[Moozart]

They've been replaced with borrowed power

This, we end up with abilities that just go away after the new xpack comes out.

[Kehego]

But, there is. You use AC instead of SS. It does more DPS. You just do it so naturally that you don't think it is anymore. When to use the overheat is a different layer of decision.

I disagree indeed and i think your argument is the flawed one. See here "There is no knowledge involved in pressing AC when you have overheated". If there is no knowledge, how do you know to press it?

I don't think pruning is always bad, in fact. In fact, i'd say what you are suggesting is not pruning but unifying. You propose merging the functionality of 2 abilities and i understand that, but i think something is lost doing that. I prefer to remove useless abilities that don't see use or upgrading existing ones into a more satisfying form. So, in this case, you feel like AC is not different enough from SS. So, i would add a functionality like using it increases the damage of the off gcd ability (i don't know the names from memory. The AoE one).

this is literally what they did in wow btw
baked in useless/redundant spells into others

[Itori]

Lots of reasons, lack of bar space, borrowed power, balance issues, laziness.

[Saltysquidoon]

But, there is. You use AC instead of SS. It does more DPS. You just do it so naturally that you don't think it is anymore. When to use the overheat is a different layer of decision.

No, it's not 'different layers'. Whether to use AC or SS is a binary, are you in aoe and overheated? You don't use SS ever under any circumstances, they even have the same aoe and potency so you can't even argue SS is better in some bizarre edge-case for burst or positioning. There is always one objective solution 100% of the time in the circumstance I described. The fact Yoshi P doesn't personally break into your house and slap you across the face if you try and use SS while overheated in AoE doesn't make it a decision. Is it a 'decision' to hurl your pc out of the nearest window the next gcd after you press overcharge? I mean theoretically yes, is that 'decision' relevant to the design of machinist though?
Comparatively whether to spend or save heat is multifaceted, should I spend it on this pack or save it for a double dump on a boss, is barrel stabaliser coming off CD soon? Is the boss going to invul soon? Phase transition? Do I need to burst an add on the other side of said transition? Now, sure some of these might have objectively correct answers in retrospect but in the moment is a matter of decision making.

I disagree indeed and i think your argument is the flawed one. See here "There is no knowledge involved in pressing AC when you have overheated". If there is no knowledge, how do you know to press it?

Yeah, and how did I know to click the icon to turn on the game? How did you know you have to press buttons to do literally anything? You see these are petulant technicalities that mean nothing beyond empty 'gotchas'.
Would you prefer "knowing when to use AC over SS requires no more than the baseline knowledge required to play the spec to the bare minimum of competency in dungeon/trial content and is thus irrelevant to a discussion from a game design perspective"?

I don't think pruning is always bad, in fact. In fact, i'd say what you are suggesting is not pruning but unifying. You propose merging the functionality of 2 abilities and i understand that, but i think something is lost doing that. I prefer to remove useless abilities that don't see use or upgrading existing ones into a more satisfying form. So, in this case, you feel like AC is not different enough from SS. So, i would add a functionality like using it increases the damage of the off gcd ability (i don't know the names from memory. The AoE one).

Pruning means removing buttons. Whether that is by rolling the button's effect into a passive, removing the skill, merging skills or as im suggesting having a dynamically updating skill. We aren't writing a technical manual or drafting a contract of sale, for the purposes of discussing video game design on an mmo fan forum the contextual use of 'pruning' is sufficient for our purposes. Stop trying to filibuster by playing the definition game.

As for your suggestion, I agree a potential solution would be to modify the spell in some way. I disagree buffing ricochet would achieve anything since you should be weaving you're ogcd's between AC recasts anyway and it would do little to rectify the glaring hilarious overlap between the two spells as it stands.

[Pony Soldier]

I think we have enough abilities but It'd be nice to revamp some of them so they actually feel useful for some of the classes. For instance fury warriors who have shield abilities they can't even use unless they equip a shield which would make no sense to do as a fury warrior and Slam which is just a total waste of rage and serves no real purpose. Some of the other abilities like Spell Deflect and Ignore Pain are fine as they can actually be useful in some situations but the others I can't see anybody actually finding a viable use for them. Enhance shamans have the same problem.

In my opinion, the ability pruning was needed as it made the classes much cleaner, less cluttered and confusing to play, and gave their specs an identity. Each spec felt different and unique from one another. Now, they all feel mostly the same. So now, as DPS at least, switching to a different spec has less meaning to it. If they kept the ability prune they could've possibly added more new abilities for each spec to fill up the ability bar a little bit.

Instead we just get a rollback of old useless abilities that realistically will hardly ever get used in everyday situations but apparently, according to some WoW experts on these forums this makes the game and the classes better because "muh options". Yeah, cluttering up the spellbook and action bar into a disorganized mess with useless abilities just sitting there for the sole purpose of satisfying your nostalgia makes the game play so much better.

[Swnem]

No, it's not 'different layers'. Whether to use AC or SS is a binary, are you in aoe and overheated? You don't use SS ever under any circumstances, they even have the same aoe and potency so you can't even argue SS is better in some bizarre edge-case for burst or positioning. There is always one objective solution 100% of the time in the circumstance I described. The fact Yoshi P doesn't personally break into your house and slap you across the face if you try and use SS while overheated in AoE doesn't make it a decision. Is it a 'decision' to hurl your pc out of the nearest window the next gcd after you press overcharge? I mean theoretically yes, is that 'decision' relevant to the design of machinist though?
Comparatively whether to spend or save heat is multifaceted, should I spend it on this pack or save it for a double dump on a boss, is barrel stabaliser coming off CD soon? Is the boss going to invul soon? Phase transition? Do I need to burst an add on the other side of said transition? Now, sure some of these might have objectively correct answers in retrospect but in the moment is a matter of decision making.


Yeah, and how did I know to click the icon to turn on the game? How did you know you have to press buttons to do literally anything? You see these are petulant technicalities that mean nothing beyond empty 'gotchas'.
Would you prefer "knowing when to use AC over SS requires no more than the baseline knowledge required to play the spec to the bare minimum of competency in dungeon/trial content and is thus irrelevant to a discussion from a game design perspective"?


Pruning means removing buttons. Whether that is by rolling the button's effect into a passive, removing the skill, merging skills or as im suggesting having a dynamically updating skill. We aren't writing a technical manual or drafting a contract of sale, for the purposes of discussing video game design on an mmo fan forum the contextual use of 'pruning' is sufficient for our purposes. Stop trying to filibuster by playing the definition game.

As for your suggestion, I agree a potential solution would be to modify the spell in some way. I disagree buffing ricochet would achieve anything since you should be weaving you're ogcd's between AC recasts anyway and it would do little to rectify the glaring hilarious overlap between the two spells as it stands.

Well, i tried writing a reply twice but i don't see how it will matter and will only lead to back and forth. So, the short of it is we disagree.

[tomten]

I honestly just wish they would create a "max level" talent row that gets replaced each expansion.
So every class just needs 3 new abilities per expansion.
Add ONE borrowed power system, such as ONLY legendaries or ONLY conduits or whatever.
On top of this, they could optionally bring back tier sets and call it a day.

It doesn't need any more changing every single expansion, i'd be happy with 3 new talents that I know will go away next expo and some timesink á la borrowed power systems so they can keep everyone subbed. And fondly miss tier sets

Thinking about it some more, they could just add tier sets as some order hall class fantasy that you obtain outside of raiding (another time sink for them) that get one design on launch and one design mid expo for some content x.3 patch or whatever.
Wouldn't create such insane variables to balance and they can do something fun for the classes that alters the rotation a bit.

[SirBeef]

I hoped that BfA was an exception, but with Shadowlands, it seems to become a trend not to give classes fun new abilities. In the past, you could count on Blizz giving you like 4-8 new buttons to press that did something awesome per expansion, but all tat has really happened now are that talents they removed in the past are given back.

New abilities are fun. Why have they effectively stopped making them?

What expansions were these when we got 4-8 new buttons to play with?